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Name that parcel(?) van


Defford
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Hi all,

I've just purchased the print below, probably taken in the early 1960s. It's evidently a type 2 at Kyle of Lochalsh with a mixed parcel/passenger train but does anyone know what type of vehicle is coupled directly behind the loco?

 

IMG_3157.jpg.c9dca63d31492cf43a26579d01f246a7.jpg

 

Adrian.

Edited by Defford
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10 minutes ago, chrisf said:

It is a BG of LNER parentage, clearly designed under Gresley.

 

Chris

 

Aha, thanks Chris. I'm not familiar with LNER designs. Kyle line photos from this era tend to feature ex-LMS or BR stock. Seems like it might be the luggage brake van described on this page: https://www.steve-banks.org/prototype-and-traffic/279-lner-npcs-61-6-thompson-deal-bg

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1 hour ago, Defford said:

 

Aha, thanks Chris. I'm not familiar with LNER designs. Kyle line photos from this era tend to feature ex-LMS or BR stock. Seems like it might be the luggage brake van described on this page: https://www.steve-banks.org/prototype-and-traffic/279-lner-npcs-61-6-thompson-deal-bg

Definitely Gresley (the way the end of the roof curves down is a giveaway.) It seems to be on Fox, rather than the heavier Gresley bogie. which might make it an early LNER, or even GN, van.

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2 hours ago, chrisf said:

It is a BG of LNER parentage, clearly designed under Gresley.

 

Chris

Perhaps even GNR Gresley parentage given the Fox bogies?

 

Edit: Sorry, there is an echo in here.

Edited by Joseph_Pestell
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Not enough doors for a D113? 

Looks more like one of the 52'6" shorties. As it has a guard's ducket I would guess D154 or D282. Many of these LNER vans look to have been on bogies recovered from upgraded stock or from the condemned vehicles which they replaced. 

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1 hour ago, Fat Controller said:

Definitely Gresley (the way the end of the roof curves down is a giveaway.) It seems to be on Fox, rather than the heavier Gresley bogie. which might make it an early LNER, or even GN, van.

 

Later LNER (c. mid 1930s) I would say given that it is on an underframe with angle iron trussing rather than adjustable truss rods.

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1 hour ago, TheSignalEngineer said:

D284 had straight roof ends, not curved down.

Thanks

I was looking at info in Harris's book and it just said D284 (no picture) as D129 of which there was a picture, so assumed it was just a later version maybe with angle iron trusses.

 

EDIT

Looking through the list of vans in various books I have,  If it has the typical Gresley curves at the end it doesn't exist!

All the ones that meet the general look of the one in the photo are either too long, or have flat ends.

It looks like D129 but that doesn't have the curves, the D284 is the later version (maybe with angle iron trusswork).

Edited by melmerby
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1 hour ago, Darryl Tooley said:

It is a  D282.  The ten vehicles to D154 were built in 1932, before the change to angle-iron trussing took place.

 

D

Which bogies should it have?

I found a mention of D282 built York 1937 and using GNR bogies. Is that correct?

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Just now, melmerby said:

I found a mention of D282 built York 1937 and using GNR bogies. Is that correct?

Yes.

 

All the 52'6 gangwayed brake vans were built with the GN pressed steel design of 8' wheelbase bogie, and by and large seem to have kept them, including, by the look of it, the one in the OP's image.

 

D

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Thanks all for helping me out. Sounds like it's most probably D282 and certainly one of the shorter Gresley brake vans.

 

10 hours ago, robertcwp said:

GWR and SR designs at Kyle in this image.

Great picture, thanks. There's more variety on the Kyle line than I had thought. I suppose the general pool of BR vehicles spread over the country as time went on.

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11 hours ago, melmerby said:

Thanks

I was looking at info in Harris's book and it just said D284 (no picture) as D129 of which there was a picture, so assumed it was just a later version maybe with angle iron trusses.

 

EDIT

Looking through the list of vans in various books I have,  If it has the typical Gresley curves at the end it doesn't exist!

All the ones that meet the general look of the one in the photo are either too long, or have flat ends.

It looks like D129 but that doesn't have the curves, the D284 is the later version (maybe with angle iron trusswork).

Harris's book LNER Standard Gresley Carriages has a drawing of D282 in the section on passenger brake vans, page 179.

The roof, sides ends and underframe match the picture in the OP. Text in that section refers to the 52'6" vans having 8' bogies. 

 

Edited by TheSignalEngineer
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On 06/08/2020 at 18:28, Defford said:

Thanks all for helping me out. Sounds like it's most probably D282 and certainly one of the shorter Gresley brake vans.

 

Great picture, thanks. There's more variety on the Kyle line than I had thought. I suppose the general pool of BR vehicles spread over the country as time went on.

I have the impression that the pool arrangement was instituted on 1/1/48 and by midnight the entire network was flooded with Southern PMVs.  This is an exaggeration but everything got everywhere very quickly and the process probably took no more than a very few months for pool NPCCS and goods stock. 

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