Class 47s South Eastern Divison - the definitive list. COMPLETE

[SouthernBlue80s]

Hi all

 

The Background is that in the very early 80s I used to hang around Dover, Faversham, Ashford and the like hunting down our exotic class 47s.

(Everyday stuff to everybody else I know)

 

I have great memories of the atmosphere of the railway during those times and I always wondered how many 47s made it into the depths of South Eastern Division.

 

I have based the list around tops in the early 80s. But if a loco visited later with a higher number I have noted it as ``number when seen``

Every * that is next to a loco indicated an additional visit. I have a handful with three recorded visits so far.

 

There are now three databases

1.The whole of the South Eastern Division

2.Everything Ashford and Medway and East of - so the locos that made it into depths of East Kent

3. And a 1970s/1980s TOPs version of the above (this is a touch less up to date than the above two lists)

 

I have trawled my records and every picture I can find.

 

Hopefully East West Divide and the other blokes that used to hang about in Kent see this

Can you please post up every 47 that you saw. Location and date if possible. Even if it was a D prefix or a late 47800 number

 

I will update the list regularly. Hopefully you Kent folks will find it interesting.

Hopefully you can download it from here, or if not I will email it to you.

 

Cheers

Steve

 

OK after much work this is as good as finished. See version 10 below.

 

These were the locos that were never sighted - so if you ever come across a bit of gen or a picture let me know.

Thanks for all your input so far.

 

47003

47009

47046

47083

47115

47149

47176

47183

47208

47263

47269

47271

47275

47282

 

47332

47336

47368

47373

47379

47380

 

47402

47403

47405

47407

47408

47409

47410

47411

47412

47413

47414

47416

47417

47419

47420

47422

47430

47437

47440

47460

47461

47468

47472

47486

47493

47494

47496

47498

47502

47504

47506

47516

47529

47541

47550

47576

47579

47601/901

47604

47617

47633

47643

 

47701

47702

47706

47707

47708

47710

47711

 

Six locos are shown twice in the list above

 

47046/601/901

47083/633

47149/576

47183/579

47269/643

47271/604

 

Which gives us a total of 63 not recorded as having visited

 

A summary of Interesting workings - observations

 

11/06/1972 - After D6130  was derailed at Eltham I have no record of it every having worked back into the South Eastern Division as 47048 or 47570 – It stayed well away

 

10/10/1978 A generator working its way across the south on a freight! 47418 worked the Hoo Junction Galley Hill tanks. Most of the Generators didn’t turn up however this one couldn’t stay away I have 4 recorded visits for it.

 

Scottish ETH 47s that visited

47595 ED 1986

47469 ED May 1988

 

Last sighted in Green livery

06/06/1976 47256 in green livery on 1Z10 Reading General-Margate
19/06/1976 47356 in green livery on High Wycombe-Margate.

 

15/06/1976 47216 on Hoo Jcn-Richborough oil train - normally a class73

 

01/08/1979 56050 + 47327 worked an MGR train to Northfleet. This was alleged to be the first class 56 working on the SED.

 

27/09/1979 Slough-Hoo Jn. oil train is normally a WR class 47 duty. Hauled by 50008, believed to be first visit of class to the SED

 

00/03/1974 First TOPs numbered Machine recorded 47078 worked excursion from Bristol Division to Canterbury West

 

Last sightings with pre tops numbers

00/08/1973 1596 (later 47470) worked excursion from Bristol Division to Deal or Ramsgate and return

1711 (later 47122) worked Mystex from Bristol Division to Ramsgate and return

 

13/11/1983 47415 ended up at Dover Western Docks

 

Last 47 recorded during British Rail days 47809  (47654) 27/02/1994  Folkestone

 

27/08/1994  Last class 47 working from Dover Western Docks 47839 (47621) 

IM79 Dover Western Docks - Wolverhampton

 

In 1988 47124 turned up to Bettshanger on a test run with MGRs

 

The database below

 

Class47s_SouthEasternDivision_v10.docx

 

 

This is the document that shows sightings in the 70s and 80s, which is what I am interested in.

 

Class47s_SouthEasternDivision_1970s 1980s.docx

Edited December 28, 2020 by SouthernBlue80s
Clarity

[guzzler17]

Looking into my database for 47s with Dover in the destination field I could currently offer up 27 workings.  However using Dover as the starting point I have 82 workings listed.  Those numbers of workings will go up as I still need to complete work on my database, stated for winter 2020-21.

 

So 47227 that I saw heading away from Dover Western Docks in 1989 must've got down there at some point but I cannot say what the inward working was.  Is that of interest?

 

If you want the best possible list should you include outbound workings from East Kent as well?

[SouthernBlue80s]

Yes agree should have made that clearer  I am not identifying the working on my list/database. Just if the loco was seen in the area, what number it was carrying at the time, where it was seen and the date.

 

So for example

 

47097. 05/08/1981. Herne Bay

 

So it would be fantastic if you could post up the list of locos. With location seen and a date if possible, even if it is just a year.

 

For example would be entered as

 

47227   00/00/1989. Dover.

 

Out of interest. Were you able to download the word document ok.

 

Thanks for your help 

Steve

 

 

Also perhaps at the bottom. I put down the names of the contributors.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 7, 2020 by SouthernBlue80s

[eastwestdivide]

The word doc works OK.

My notes from that era are literally a pile of old notebooks, undigitised, so it would be a bit of a marathon to extract the info you're after. Watch this space, but I'd need to find some spare time to do it. 

The main 47 workings in ~1976-86 that I'd have seen regularly (mostly in Medway) with 47s would have been:

- excursions to the coast from the WR and ER

- the ferry wagons that came up from Dover through Medway about midday

- the Allington-Westbury ARC hoppers in the early part of that period, although whether that fits your geographical restrictions I don't know...

I may have a few observations of the Hothfield (nr Ashford) to Westbury aggregates too.

My impression was that the 47/3s seemed to be relatively rare down that way then, partly borne out by your list where there seem to be more sightings post 1986 when I moved away.

[guzzler17]

1 hour ago, SouthernBlue80s said:

Yes agree should have made that clearer  I am not identifying the working on my list/database. Just if the loco was seen in the area, what number it was carrying at the time, where it was seen and the date.

 

 

OK number, location and date are easy.

 

For info quite a lot of my sightings will be around Tonbridge.  From 1986 I commuted to London for 4 years and sometimes saw ferry traffic heading for the coast as well as mail traffic.  From 1990 I think I'll have some sightings around Willesden and Ken O.

 

BTW how are you storing the base data?  Excel, Access, something else?  Would prefer to provide data in a way that prevents re-typing.

 

Edited August 7, 2020 by guzzler17
typo

[SouthernBlue80s]

14 minutes ago, guzzler17 said:

 

OK number, location and date are easy.

 

For info quite a lot of my sightings will be around Tonbridge.  From 1986 I commuted to London for 4 years and sometimes saw ferry traffic heading for the coast as well as mail traffic.  From 1990 I think I'll have some sightings around Willesden and Ken O.

 

BTW how are you storing the base data?  Excel, Access, something else?  Would prefer to provide data in a way that prevents re-typing.

 

Nigel

 

Thanks Nigel greatly appreciated.

 

I have tapped into tables in word. And I really don't mind retyping it.

 

The exact format in my tables are.

 

Tops number - Number when seen - Date - Location - Destination

47030 - 47618 - 02/04/1987 - Tonbridge - Dover

 

So the above example is

47030 it was seen as 47618 on 02 April 1987 at Tonbridge heading to Dover.

 

I will post up a couple of pics of the document.

 

Thanks again

Steve

 

 

[SouthernBlue80s]

44 minutes ago, eastwestdivide said:

The word doc works OK.

My notes from that era are literally a pile of old notebooks, undigitised, so it would be a bit of a marathon to extract the info you're after. Watch this space, but I'd need to find some spare time to do it. 

The main 47 workings in ~1976-86 that I'd have seen regularly (mostly in Medway) with 47s would have been:

- excursions to the coast from the WR and ER

- the ferry wagons that came up from Dover through Medway about midday

- the Allington-Westbury ARC hoppers in the early part of that period, although whether that fits your geographical restrictions I don't know...

I may have a few observations of the Hothfield (nr Ashford) to Westbury aggregates too.

My impression was that the 47/3s seemed to be relatively rare down that way then, partly borne out by your list where there seem to be more sightings post 1986 when I moved away.

 

Thanks. I was hoping you would surface. As you say it is a bit time consuming! - but hopefully we will end up with a shared document that shows everything. Glad to hear the word doc downloads OK. When I have Nigel's info I will upload it as version_2.

Cheers

Steve

[SouthernBlue80s]

A couple of shots of the document taken on my camera phone. To show the format.

 

To add. Even if the loco is shown as having visited on the database. Could you please still give me your info on it 

Edited August 7, 2020 by SouthernBlue80s

[SouthernBlue80s]

Nigel (Guzzler17) has kindly provided all his info

So the database is now updated with lots of new entries

 

I have put a key at the bottom and made a few things a little clearer.

 

So here is version 2.

 

class_47s_east_kent_v2.docx

 

[SouthernBlue80s]

Bump 

[The Johnster]

You might want to include 1630 in the Kent list, worked Kentish Town-Margate excursion 11/6/72, derailed Eltham Well Hall on return journey (5 fatalities including the driver).  Loco repaired and returned to service.  

[DY444]

12 hours ago, The Johnster said:

You might want to include 1630 in the Kent list, worked Kentish Town-Margate excursion 11/6/72, derailed Eltham Well Hall on return journey (5 fatalities including the driver).  Loco repaired and returned to service.  

 

It's already there as 47048

[SouthernBlue80s]

I am already on version 3. Eastwestdivide will go through his notes at somepoint, and I will stick his observations in and then re upload the document 

 

To most it is if no interest whatsoever. But to a few of us it will be an interesting overview.

 

It could also be of use to modellers. Who want to model Southern Region or Kent excursion trains.

Edited August 11, 2020 by SouthernBlue80s

[eastwestdivide]

While SB80s is making sense of my notes, here's a few gratuitous shots from 1981-85 of 47s in Kent:

 

Ferry wagons from Dover at Canterbury E, and in Strood at the foot of Sole Street bank:

 

 

The corresponding down working at Strood:

 

Two regular aggregates workings, both empties to Westbury here, from Allington at Strood, and from Hothfield at Maidstone E:

 

 

And three excursions from off-region, a footex to Gillingham at Rochester, a down working at Rochester (unusually with Mk2s) taken from somewhere near Fort Pitt Hill, and a return up working in Strood at the bottom of Sole Street bank:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 19, 2020 by eastwestdivide
extra info

[eastwestdivide]

Plus I never did find out what this working was - I noted a few times, a 47 on MSV tipplers heading up through Medway via Sole St in 1979. 

Terrible quality, 126 instamatic. Taken by the back of Strood church, on Gun Lane:

 

 

 

[SouthernBlue80s]

Thanks for the pictures - Just how I remember them

 

OK the database is now largely complete.

Thanks to Guzler17 for his contribution and Eastwestdivide´s massive contribution

 

So this is of interest of those that spotted or model the BR South Eastern Division in the 1970s 80s and 90s.

 

 

1.The Root database/list is my main interest - Class 47s that worked to or east of Ashford/Medway into East Kent.

 

ROOT DOCUMENT Class47s_East of Rochester_Ashford.docx

 

 

2.Of real interest to Eastwestdivide and myself is what visited in the rail blue TOPs era, as pictured above.

 

Class47s_East of Rochester_Ashford 1970s - 1980s TOPS.docx

 

 

3.This shows what is known to have worked in the South Eastern Division as a whole.

Class47s_SouthEasternDivision.docx

 

 

If you have anything to add please reply here or PM me

Cheers

Steve

 

Edited August 21, 2020 by SouthernBlue80s

[SED Freightman]

On 19/08/2020 at 19:44, eastwestdivide said:

Plus I never did find out what this working was - I noted a few times, a 47 on MSV tipplers heading up through Medway via Sole St in 1979. 

Terrible quality, 126 instamatic. Taken by the back of Strood church, on Gun Lane:

 

 

 

An interesting working. I had a quick look at the Section WK WTT ending 06/05/1979 and the only service heading up Sole Street Bank that could vaguely fit was 6M63 1057 Shepherds Well (or 1100 Snowdown Colliery) to Cricklewood (Sole Street 12/52), although this was booked for a Class 73 and I would have expected it to convey MCV's.  Do you have any other information (loaded / empty / time of day / dates) that could possibly assist with identifying the service ?

[eastwestdivide]

13 hours ago, SED Freightman said:

An interesting working. I had a quick look at the Section WK WTT ending 06/05/1979 and the only service heading up Sole Street Bank that could vaguely fit was 6M63 1057 Shepherds Well (or 1100 Snowdown Colliery) to Cricklewood (Sole Street 12/52), although this was booked for a Class 73 and I would have expected it to convey MCV's.  Do you have any other information (loaded / empty / time of day / dates) that could possibly assist with identifying the service ?

I saw it a few times with a 47 on Saturdays (around 1015 up through Medway). Not sure if loaded or not. I never saw it with anything other than a 47. One of the sightings specifically says "stone tipplers", so maybe they were those branded with STONE. Could it have been a Westbury area aggregates train returning from somewhere in E Kent?

[Edit: I think those 47s were all WR ones, Bristol or Cardiff, so that adds weight to the Westbury theory. Were there any major construction projects there in that period? The Folkestone end of the M20 opened in 1981 according to https://www.roads.org.uk/motorway/chronology/1981]

 

From my notes, 47059 on 18/11/1978 (24 tipplers), 47033 on 02/12/1978 (27 tipplers), 47070 on 24/03/1979 (23 tipplers), 47111 on 07/04/79 (noted as "30-ish stone tipplers"), 47049 on 21/04/1979 (26 tipplers).

No sightings after that.

 

That's all I've got.

 

Edited August 21, 2020 by eastwestdivide

[SouthernBlue80s]

The latest version of the SouthEasternDivision document. Tweaked by EWD and myself.

With Folkestone spelt correctly. My dyslexia struck again!

 

Note the list shows some locos twice; their non pre ETH number and also their post ETH number.

This is because it covers several decades.

 

Class47s_SouthEasternDivision_v2.docx

[SED Freightman]

2 hours ago, eastwestdivide said:

I saw it a few times with a 47 on Saturdays (around 1015 up through Medway). Not sure if loaded or not. I never saw it with anything other than a 47. One of the sightings specifically says "stone tipplers", so maybe they were those branded with STONE. Could it have been a Westbury area aggregates train returning from somewhere in E Kent?

[Edit: I think those 47s were all WR ones, Bristol or Cardiff, so that adds weight to the Westbury theory. Were there any major construction projects there in that period? The Folkestone end of the M20 opened in 1981 according to https://www.roads.org.uk/motorway/chronology/1981]

 

From my notes, 47059 on 18/11/1978 (24 tipplers), 47033 on 02/12/1978 (27 tipplers), 47070 on 24/03/1979 (23 tipplers), 47111 on 07/04/79 (noted as "30-ish stone tipplers"), 47049 on 21/04/1979 (26 tipplers).

No sightings after that.

 

That's all I've got.

 

Thanks for digging out those details.  Certainly has the makings of a stone train originating from Tytherington or the Westbury area for a short term project like the M20 construction. I do have a very vague recollection of stone traffic possibly being dealt with at Folkestone East, I will dig a bit more in case something turns up.

[SED Freightman]

A quick look through some of my 1980's photos reveals the following :-

30/05/87 47432 @ Sevenoaks working 1754 Dover Western Docks to Manchester Piccadilly

28/07/87 47342 @ Dover Priory shunting vans

22/04/88 47521 @ Hither Green working 1110 Halling to Chinnor

23/04/88 47557 @ Sevenoaks working 0740 Manchester Piccadilly to Dover Western Docks

07/05/88 47612 @ Otford working 0904 Canterbury East to Manchester Piccadilly

07/05/88 47602 @ Otford working 0740 Manchester Piccadilly to Dover Western Docks

22/05/88 47625 @ Folkestone Harbour working VSOE ECS

22/05/88 47371 @ Dover Town Yd shunting

26/01/89 47218 @ Kensington Olympia working 0915 Dover Town Yd to Bescot

[eastwestdivide]

At the moment, SouthernBlue80s' massive list has two notable gaps: no sightings of 47401-20 (perhaps not that surprising), or 47601/901.

The latter I'd have half-expected to turn up on the Allington ARC working from Westbury once it got allocated there, as that working was a regular 56 after 1984. But I moved away in 1986, so never saw it in Kent,

[eastwestdivide]

1 hour ago, SED Freightman said:

Thanks for digging out those details.  Certainly has the makings of a stone train originating from Tytherington or the Westbury area for a short term project like the M20 construction. I do have a very vague recollection of stone traffic possibly being dealt with at Folkestone East, I will dig a bit more in case something turns up.

 

That might make sense

There's an article at 

https://www.kentonline.co.uk/ashford/news/retro-photos-capture-motorway-construction-218445/

a look back into the archives on the M20 construction, saying 

Quote

...Work on the Ashford-Sellindge section of the M20, which is some 7.7 miles, commenced in the autumn of 1978...

which I found by a search for 

folkestone construction project "1979"

 

[SouthernBlue80s]

5 hours ago, SED Freightman said:

A quick look through some of my 1980's photos reveals the following :-

30/05/87 47432 @ Sevenoaks working 1754 Dover Western Docks to Manchester Piccadilly

28/07/87 47342 @ Dover Priory shunting vans

22/04/88 47521 @ Hither Green working 1110 Halling to Chinnor

23/04/88 47557 @ Sevenoaks working 0740 Manchester Piccadilly to Dover Western Docks

07/05/88 47612 @ Otford working 0904 Canterbury East to Manchester Piccadilly

07/05/88 47602 @ Otford working 0740 Manchester Piccadilly to Dover Western Docks

22/05/88 47625 @ Folkestone Harbour working VSOE ECS

22/05/88 47371 @ Dover Town Yd shunting

26/01/89 47218 @ Kensington Olympia working 0915 Dover Town Yd to Bescot

Thanks SED. I will check those against the list. 

And will update accordingly.

[keefer]

Looking in the 1979 R.O. for cl. 47 Stone trains on the SR.

Jan 1979 R.O. mentions a new cl.47 service, 19.33 Westbury - Deal with stone for sea defence works.

Booked weight 1062 tonnes (cl.47), 1095t (2x73), 1097t (2x33), 1138t (47+33).

Problems occurred with a single 47,  some trains stalling nr. Galston Tunnel between Dover & Martin Hill (needed assistance in rear).

This led to attaching a 33 (or more rarely a 73) at Ashford for the 1in70 climb.

On 25th November 1978, a solo 47091 took a diverted train via Canterbury West and Minster. On 28th & 30th Nov. 47243 was used.

 

(any other mentions will follow)

 

Edited August 21, 2020 by keefer
corrected loco info to 47091