SouthernBlue80s Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 (edited) Hi all The Background is that in the very early 80s I used to hang around Dover, Faversham, Ashford and the like hunting down our exotic class 47s. (Everyday stuff to everybody else I know) I have great memories of the atmosphere of the railway during those times and I always wondered how many 47s made it into the depths of South Eastern Division. I have based the list around tops in the early 80s. But if a loco visited later with a higher number I have noted it as ``number when seen`` Every * that is next to a loco indicated an additional visit. I have a handful with three recorded visits so far. There are now three databases 1.The whole of the South Eastern Division 2.Everything Ashford and Medway and East of - so the locos that made it into depths of East Kent 3. And a 1970s/1980s TOPs version of the above (this is a touch less up to date than the above two lists) I have trawled my records and every picture I can find. Hopefully East West Divide and the other blokes that used to hang about in Kent see this Can you please post up every 47 that you saw. Location and date if possible. Even if it was a D prefix or a late 47800 number I will update the list regularly. Hopefully you Kent folks will find it interesting. Hopefully you can download it from here, or if not I will email it to you. Cheers Steve OK after much work this is as good as finished. See version 10 below. These were the locos that were never sighted - so if you ever come across a bit of gen or a picture let me know. Thanks for all your input so far. 47003 47009 47046 47083 47115 47149 47176 47183 47208 47263 47269 47271 47275 47282 47332 47336 47368 47373 47379 47380 47402 47403 47405 47407 47408 47409 47410 47411 47412 47413 47414 47416 47417 47419 47420 47422 47430 47437 47440 47460 47461 47468 47472 47486 47493 47494 47496 47498 47502 47504 47506 47516 47529 47541 47550 47576 47579 47601/901 47604 47617 47633 47643 47701 47702 47706 47707 47708 47710 47711 Six locos are shown twice in the list above 47046/601/901 47083/633 47149/576 47183/579 47269/643 47271/604 Which gives us a total of 63 not recorded as having visited A summary of Interesting workings - observations 11/06/1972 - After D6130 was derailed at Eltham I have no record of it every having worked back into the South Eastern Division as 47048 or 47570 – It stayed well away 10/10/1978 A generator working its way across the south on a freight! 47418 worked the Hoo Junction Galley Hill tanks. Most of the Generators didn’t turn up however this one couldn’t stay away I have 4 recorded visits for it. Scottish ETH 47s that visited 47595 ED 1986 47469 ED May 1988 Last sighted in Green livery 06/06/1976 47256 in green livery on 1Z10 Reading General-Margate 19/06/1976 47356 in green livery on High Wycombe-Margate. 15/06/1976 47216 on Hoo Jcn-Richborough oil train - normally a class73 01/08/1979 56050 + 47327 worked an MGR train to Northfleet. This was alleged to be the first class 56 working on the SED. 27/09/1979 Slough-Hoo Jn. oil train is normally a WR class 47 duty. Hauled by 50008, believed to be first visit of class to the SED 00/03/1974 First TOPs numbered Machine recorded 47078 worked excursion from Bristol Division to Canterbury West Last sightings with pre tops numbers 00/08/1973 1596 (later 47470) worked excursion from Bristol Division to Deal or Ramsgate and return 1711 (later 47122) worked Mystex from Bristol Division to Ramsgate and return 13/11/1983 47415 ended up at Dover Western Docks Last 47 recorded during British Rail days 47809 (47654) 27/02/1994 Folkestone 27/08/1994 Last class 47 working from Dover Western Docks 47839 (47621) IM79 Dover Western Docks - Wolverhampton In 1988 47124 turned up to Bettshanger on a test run with MGRs The database below Class47s_SouthEasternDivision_v10.docx This is the document that shows sightings in the 70s and 80s, which is what I am interested in. Class47s_SouthEasternDivision_1970s 1980s.docx Edited December 28, 2020 by SouthernBlue80s Clarity 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzler17 Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 Looking into my database for 47s with Dover in the destination field I could currently offer up 27 workings. However using Dover as the starting point I have 82 workings listed. Those numbers of workings will go up as I still need to complete work on my database, stated for winter 2020-21. So 47227 that I saw heading away from Dover Western Docks in 1989 must've got down there at some point but I cannot say what the inward working was. Is that of interest? If you want the best possible list should you include outbound workings from East Kent as well? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernBlue80s Posted August 7, 2020 Author Share Posted August 7, 2020 (edited) Yes agree should have made that clearer I am not identifying the working on my list/database. Just if the loco was seen in the area, what number it was carrying at the time, where it was seen and the date. So for example 47097. 05/08/1981. Herne Bay So it would be fantastic if you could post up the list of locos. With location seen and a date if possible, even if it is just a year. For example would be entered as 47227 00/00/1989. Dover. Out of interest. Were you able to download the word document ok. Thanks for your help Steve Also perhaps at the bottom. I put down the names of the contributors. Edited August 7, 2020 by SouthernBlue80s Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 The word doc works OK. My notes from that era are literally a pile of old notebooks, undigitised, so it would be a bit of a marathon to extract the info you're after. Watch this space, but I'd need to find some spare time to do it. The main 47 workings in ~1976-86 that I'd have seen regularly (mostly in Medway) with 47s would have been: - excursions to the coast from the WR and ER - the ferry wagons that came up from Dover through Medway about midday - the Allington-Westbury ARC hoppers in the early part of that period, although whether that fits your geographical restrictions I don't know... I may have a few observations of the Hothfield (nr Ashford) to Westbury aggregates too. My impression was that the 47/3s seemed to be relatively rare down that way then, partly borne out by your list where there seem to be more sightings post 1986 when I moved away. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzler17 Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, SouthernBlue80s said: Yes agree should have made that clearer I am not identifying the working on my list/database. Just if the loco was seen in the area, what number it was carrying at the time, where it was seen and the date. OK number, location and date are easy. For info quite a lot of my sightings will be around Tonbridge. From 1986 I commuted to London for 4 years and sometimes saw ferry traffic heading for the coast as well as mail traffic. From 1990 I think I'll have some sightings around Willesden and Ken O. BTW how are you storing the base data? Excel, Access, something else? Would prefer to provide data in a way that prevents re-typing. Edited August 7, 2020 by guzzler17 typo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernBlue80s Posted August 7, 2020 Author Share Posted August 7, 2020 14 minutes ago, guzzler17 said: OK number, location and date are easy. For info quite a lot of my sightings will be around Tonbridge. From 1986 I commuted to London for 4 years and sometimes saw ferry traffic heading for the coast as well as mail traffic. From 1990 I think I'll have some sightings around Willesden and Ken O. BTW how are you storing the base data? Excel, Access, something else? Would prefer to provide data in a way that prevents re-typing. Nigel Thanks Nigel greatly appreciated. I have tapped into tables in word. And I really don't mind retyping it. The exact format in my tables are. Tops number - Number when seen - Date - Location - Destination 47030 - 47618 - 02/04/1987 - Tonbridge - Dover So the above example is 47030 it was seen as 47618 on 02 April 1987 at Tonbridge heading to Dover. I will post up a couple of pics of the document. Thanks again Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernBlue80s Posted August 7, 2020 Author Share Posted August 7, 2020 44 minutes ago, eastwestdivide said: The word doc works OK. My notes from that era are literally a pile of old notebooks, undigitised, so it would be a bit of a marathon to extract the info you're after. Watch this space, but I'd need to find some spare time to do it. The main 47 workings in ~1976-86 that I'd have seen regularly (mostly in Medway) with 47s would have been: - excursions to the coast from the WR and ER - the ferry wagons that came up from Dover through Medway about midday - the Allington-Westbury ARC hoppers in the early part of that period, although whether that fits your geographical restrictions I don't know... I may have a few observations of the Hothfield (nr Ashford) to Westbury aggregates too. My impression was that the 47/3s seemed to be relatively rare down that way then, partly borne out by your list where there seem to be more sightings post 1986 when I moved away. Thanks. I was hoping you would surface. As you say it is a bit time consuming! - but hopefully we will end up with a shared document that shows everything. Glad to hear the word doc downloads OK. When I have Nigel's info I will upload it as version_2. Cheers Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernBlue80s Posted August 7, 2020 Author Share Posted August 7, 2020 (edited) A couple of shots of the document taken on my camera phone. To show the format. To add. Even if the loco is shown as having visited on the database. Could you please still give me your info on it Edited August 7, 2020 by SouthernBlue80s Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernBlue80s Posted August 7, 2020 Author Share Posted August 7, 2020 Nigel (Guzzler17) has kindly provided all his info So the database is now updated with lots of new entries I have put a key at the bottom and made a few things a little clearer. So here is version 2. class_47s_east_kent_v2.docx Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernBlue80s Posted August 9, 2020 Author Share Posted August 9, 2020 Bump Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted August 10, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 10, 2020 You might want to include 1630 in the Kent list, worked Kentish Town-Margate excursion 11/6/72, derailed Eltham Well Hall on return journey (5 fatalities including the driver). Loco repaired and returned to service. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DY444 Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 12 hours ago, The Johnster said: You might want to include 1630 in the Kent list, worked Kentish Town-Margate excursion 11/6/72, derailed Eltham Well Hall on return journey (5 fatalities including the driver). Loco repaired and returned to service. It's already there as 47048 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernBlue80s Posted August 11, 2020 Author Share Posted August 11, 2020 (edited) I am already on version 3. Eastwestdivide will go through his notes at somepoint, and I will stick his observations in and then re upload the document To most it is if no interest whatsoever. But to a few of us it will be an interesting overview. It could also be of use to modellers. Who want to model Southern Region or Kent excursion trains. Edited August 11, 2020 by SouthernBlue80s Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 (edited) While SB80s is making sense of my notes, here's a few gratuitous shots from 1981-85 of 47s in Kent: Ferry wagons from Dover at Canterbury E, and in Strood at the foot of Sole Street bank: The corresponding down working at Strood: Two regular aggregates workings, both empties to Westbury here, from Allington at Strood, and from Hothfield at Maidstone E: And three excursions from off-region, a footex to Gillingham at Rochester, a down working at Rochester (unusually with Mk2s) taken from somewhere near Fort Pitt Hill, and a return up working in Strood at the bottom of Sole Street bank: Edited August 19, 2020 by eastwestdivide extra info 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 Plus I never did find out what this working was - I noted a few times, a 47 on MSV tipplers heading up through Medway via Sole St in 1979. Terrible quality, 126 instamatic. Taken by the back of Strood church, on Gun Lane: 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernBlue80s Posted August 20, 2020 Author Share Posted August 20, 2020 (edited) Thanks for the pictures - Just how I remember them OK the database is now largely complete. Thanks to Guzler17 for his contribution and Eastwestdivide´s massive contribution So this is of interest of those that spotted or model the BR South Eastern Division in the 1970s 80s and 90s. 1.The Root database/list is my main interest - Class 47s that worked to or east of Ashford/Medway into East Kent. ROOT DOCUMENT Class47s_East of Rochester_Ashford.docx 2.Of real interest to Eastwestdivide and myself is what visited in the rail blue TOPs era, as pictured above. Class47s_East of Rochester_Ashford 1970s - 1980s TOPS.docx 3.This shows what is known to have worked in the South Eastern Division as a whole. Class47s_SouthEasternDivision.docx If you have anything to add please reply here or PM me Cheers Steve Edited August 21, 2020 by SouthernBlue80s Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SED Freightman Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 On 19/08/2020 at 19:44, eastwestdivide said: Plus I never did find out what this working was - I noted a few times, a 47 on MSV tipplers heading up through Medway via Sole St in 1979. Terrible quality, 126 instamatic. Taken by the back of Strood church, on Gun Lane: An interesting working. I had a quick look at the Section WK WTT ending 06/05/1979 and the only service heading up Sole Street Bank that could vaguely fit was 6M63 1057 Shepherds Well (or 1100 Snowdown Colliery) to Cricklewood (Sole Street 12/52), although this was booked for a Class 73 and I would have expected it to convey MCV's. Do you have any other information (loaded / empty / time of day / dates) that could possibly assist with identifying the service ? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 (edited) 13 hours ago, SED Freightman said: An interesting working. I had a quick look at the Section WK WTT ending 06/05/1979 and the only service heading up Sole Street Bank that could vaguely fit was 6M63 1057 Shepherds Well (or 1100 Snowdown Colliery) to Cricklewood (Sole Street 12/52), although this was booked for a Class 73 and I would have expected it to convey MCV's. Do you have any other information (loaded / empty / time of day / dates) that could possibly assist with identifying the service ? I saw it a few times with a 47 on Saturdays (around 1015 up through Medway). Not sure if loaded or not. I never saw it with anything other than a 47. One of the sightings specifically says "stone tipplers", so maybe they were those branded with STONE. Could it have been a Westbury area aggregates train returning from somewhere in E Kent? [Edit: I think those 47s were all WR ones, Bristol or Cardiff, so that adds weight to the Westbury theory. Were there any major construction projects there in that period? The Folkestone end of the M20 opened in 1981 according to https://www.roads.org.uk/motorway/chronology/1981] From my notes, 47059 on 18/11/1978 (24 tipplers), 47033 on 02/12/1978 (27 tipplers), 47070 on 24/03/1979 (23 tipplers), 47111 on 07/04/79 (noted as "30-ish stone tipplers"), 47049 on 21/04/1979 (26 tipplers). No sightings after that. That's all I've got. Edited August 21, 2020 by eastwestdivide 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernBlue80s Posted August 21, 2020 Author Share Posted August 21, 2020 The latest version of the SouthEasternDivision document. Tweaked by EWD and myself. With Folkestone spelt correctly. My dyslexia struck again! Note the list shows some locos twice; their non pre ETH number and also their post ETH number. This is because it covers several decades. Class47s_SouthEasternDivision_v2.docx Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SED Freightman Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 2 hours ago, eastwestdivide said: I saw it a few times with a 47 on Saturdays (around 1015 up through Medway). Not sure if loaded or not. I never saw it with anything other than a 47. One of the sightings specifically says "stone tipplers", so maybe they were those branded with STONE. Could it have been a Westbury area aggregates train returning from somewhere in E Kent? [Edit: I think those 47s were all WR ones, Bristol or Cardiff, so that adds weight to the Westbury theory. Were there any major construction projects there in that period? The Folkestone end of the M20 opened in 1981 according to https://www.roads.org.uk/motorway/chronology/1981] From my notes, 47059 on 18/11/1978 (24 tipplers), 47033 on 02/12/1978 (27 tipplers), 47070 on 24/03/1979 (23 tipplers), 47111 on 07/04/79 (noted as "30-ish stone tipplers"), 47049 on 21/04/1979 (26 tipplers). No sightings after that. That's all I've got. Thanks for digging out those details. Certainly has the makings of a stone train originating from Tytherington or the Westbury area for a short term project like the M20 construction. I do have a very vague recollection of stone traffic possibly being dealt with at Folkestone East, I will dig a bit more in case something turns up. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SED Freightman Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 A quick look through some of my 1980's photos reveals the following :- 30/05/87 47432 @ Sevenoaks working 1754 Dover Western Docks to Manchester Piccadilly 28/07/87 47342 @ Dover Priory shunting vans 22/04/88 47521 @ Hither Green working 1110 Halling to Chinnor 23/04/88 47557 @ Sevenoaks working 0740 Manchester Piccadilly to Dover Western Docks 07/05/88 47612 @ Otford working 0904 Canterbury East to Manchester Piccadilly 07/05/88 47602 @ Otford working 0740 Manchester Piccadilly to Dover Western Docks 22/05/88 47625 @ Folkestone Harbour working VSOE ECS 22/05/88 47371 @ Dover Town Yd shunting 26/01/89 47218 @ Kensington Olympia working 0915 Dover Town Yd to Bescot 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 At the moment, SouthernBlue80s' massive list has two notable gaps: no sightings of 47401-20 (perhaps not that surprising), or 47601/901. The latter I'd have half-expected to turn up on the Allington ARC working from Westbury once it got allocated there, as that working was a regular 56 after 1984. But I moved away in 1986, so never saw it in Kent, 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 1 hour ago, SED Freightman said: Thanks for digging out those details. Certainly has the makings of a stone train originating from Tytherington or the Westbury area for a short term project like the M20 construction. I do have a very vague recollection of stone traffic possibly being dealt with at Folkestone East, I will dig a bit more in case something turns up. That might make sense There's an article at https://www.kentonline.co.uk/ashford/news/retro-photos-capture-motorway-construction-218445/ a look back into the archives on the M20 construction, saying Quote ...Work on the Ashford-Sellindge section of the M20, which is some 7.7 miles, commenced in the autumn of 1978... which I found by a search for folkestone construction project "1979" 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernBlue80s Posted August 21, 2020 Author Share Posted August 21, 2020 5 hours ago, SED Freightman said: A quick look through some of my 1980's photos reveals the following :- 30/05/87 47432 @ Sevenoaks working 1754 Dover Western Docks to Manchester Piccadilly 28/07/87 47342 @ Dover Priory shunting vans 22/04/88 47521 @ Hither Green working 1110 Halling to Chinnor 23/04/88 47557 @ Sevenoaks working 0740 Manchester Piccadilly to Dover Western Docks 07/05/88 47612 @ Otford working 0904 Canterbury East to Manchester Piccadilly 07/05/88 47602 @ Otford working 0740 Manchester Piccadilly to Dover Western Docks 22/05/88 47625 @ Folkestone Harbour working VSOE ECS 22/05/88 47371 @ Dover Town Yd shunting 26/01/89 47218 @ Kensington Olympia working 0915 Dover Town Yd to Bescot Thanks SED. I will check those against the list. And will update accordingly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted August 21, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 21, 2020 (edited) Looking in the 1979 R.O. for cl. 47 Stone trains on the SR. Jan 1979 R.O. mentions a new cl.47 service, 19.33 Westbury - Deal with stone for sea defence works. Booked weight 1062 tonnes (cl.47), 1095t (2x73), 1097t (2x33), 1138t (47+33). Problems occurred with a single 47, some trains stalling nr. Galston Tunnel between Dover & Martin Hill (needed assistance in rear). This led to attaching a 33 (or more rarely a 73) at Ashford for the 1in70 climb. On 25th November 1978, a solo 47091 took a diverted train via Canterbury West and Minster. On 28th & 30th Nov. 47243 was used. (any other mentions will follow) Edited August 21, 2020 by keefer corrected loco info to 47091 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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