Class 48 in 00 Considered by “Model Rail”

[No Decorum]

The Summer 2020 issue of Model Rail has popped into my phone. I’m beginning to wonder if Model Rail is a manufacturer (in the sense of commissioner as most of them are) which produces a magazine or a magazine which manufactures models.

 

There is no commitment at this stage, only non-binding expressions of interest are requested. If you like to play the TOPS numbers game, a Class 48 is the last mainline diesel electric not available RTR.

 

For those not in the know, the Class 48 was a 47 with a Sulzer V engine, built for comparison with the Sulzer twin banked engine of the 47s. The trial established that the V engines were not as reliable and the 48s were all converted to standard 47s, with the V engines disposed of to France. The model would piggy-back on Heljan’s 47 and incorporate the roof modifications necessary to accommodate the V engine.

 

I’d love one of these and expressed an interest. If anyone else is interested, please let Model Rail know by e-mailing modelrail@bauermedia.co.uk with “New Models” as the subject line. Please specify the 48 as there are other models under consideration. They are: an EWS 47 in 00; a USA Tank, a Ruston PWM, a J70 and a 16XX in 0; and a J70 and 16XX in N, if you must know!

[tractor_37260]

Noticed the blurb 're a Class 48 in a recent mag copy.

 

Already suggested either:

 

47 114 in R/F Construction livery ED based 

47 118 L/L Blue with Blue roof preferably with NO printed depot brandings 

 

Remains to be seen what will get produced, if it goes ahead ?

 

 

 

Edited September 11, 2020 by tractor_37260
correct text

[TravisM]

As there was only five, and they were only around from September 1965 till early 1971 with the first one converted in 1969, I think it’s a bit of a gamble.  Having said that, we’ve had Lion, Falcon, Kestrel produced in the past, so it might be a goer 

Edited September 12, 2020 by jools1959

[Halvarras]

3 hours ago, tractor_37260 said:

Noticed the blurb 're a Class 48 in a recent mag copy.

 

Already suggested either:

 

47 114 in R/F Construction livery ED based 

47 118 L/L Blue with Blue roof preferably with NO printed depot brandings 

 

Remains to be seen what will get produced, if it goes ahead ?

 

 

 

 

Since the cantrails grilles were modified to standard at rebuilding, surely Heljan's standard tooling would cover these. The clue is in the running numbers......

[brushman47544]

I agree it’s a bit of a gamble. Whilst I might be interested, it really depends on how accurate Hejan’s new Class 47 Is overall. It needs to be considerably better than the Bachmann offering and that’s not the case if it appears as a scaled down replica of the O gauge version as we’ve seen so far. Some major improvements to shape compared to that are needed. So I’m not willing to express an interest and potentially influence spending by Model Rail until I know how the OO 47 will look and that’s still a long way off.

[fezza]

If they are looking for something new that will sell why not make stuff we actually need like neglected heritage and modern dmu classes. 103 104, 120, 123, 124, 175, 180, 185, 195 etc

 

Why not produce something mainstream rather than something that only had a brief life and few people need? 

[spamcan61]

13 minutes ago, fezza said:

If they are looking for something new that will sell why not make stuff we actually need like neglected heritage and modern dmu classes. 103 104, 120, 123, 124, 175, 180, 185, 195 etc

 

Why not produce something mainstream rather than something that only had a brief life and few people need? 

Because all of those are far, far more expensive and risky options than piggy-backing off Heljan's 47 tooling.

[AY Mod]

16 minutes ago, fezza said:

why not make stuff we actually need like...

 

How much capital do you think someone must have available to undertake any one of those projects?

[Oldddudders]

1 hour ago, AY Mod said:

 

How much capital do you think someone must have available to undertake any one of those projects?

And thus Model Rail looks at niche products, which leaves the big boys to take on models that might sell in thousands in multiple liveries. In these uncertain times I would not be recommending a smaller player to take on a multiple unit as a next project. 

[Roy Langridge]

2 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

And thus Model Rail looks at niche products, which leaves the big boys to take on models that might sell in thousands in multiple liveries. In these uncertain times I would not be recommending a smaller player to take on a multiple unit as a next project. 

Indeed, and the difference in cost of the changes needed for a 48 versus a whole unit will be orders of magnitude. 

Edit: If Hejan get their 00 47 right, I will be up for a 48. 

 

Roy

Edited September 12, 2020 by Roy Langridge

[Steamport Southport]

55 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said:

Indeed, and the difference in cost of the changes needed for a 48 versus a whole unit will be orders of magnitude. 

Edit: If Hejan get their 00 47 right, I will be up for a 48. 

 

Roy

 

The problem there is they want to know now rather than after they are released.

 

That's why they are asking for Expressions Of Interest. If no one wants one the opportunity has gone.

 

 

Jason

[fezza]

It's their money but my business works because I invest heavily in stuff I know I can sell. There is little risk in that. The riskiest investment is in stuff you might not - stuff which hangs around and has to be discounted or sent to landfill. 

 

Model Rail have designed bespoke items in the past that didn't piggy back on other similar products. 

[Steamport Southport]

3 minutes ago, fezza said:

It's their money but my business works because I invest heavily in stuff I know I can sell. There is little risk in that. The riskiest investment is in stuff you might not - stuff which hangs around and has to be discounted or sent to landfill. 

 

Model Rail have designed bespoke items in the past that didn't piggy back on other similar products. 

 

What are you going on about? Do you even know what a Class 48 is?

 

This is just a Class 47 with slight differences (I think to it's exhaust ports). It was an experiment with a different engine which didn't work and they were soon rebuilt as normal Class 47s.

 

Heljan asked whether they were interested. It would be a limited edition of a few hundred models. It's not a new model. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_48

 

 

 

Jason

[fezza]

Yes but you've still got to sell it. 

 

Yes I know what a 48 is - the fact that many railfans won't is the problem. 

[Steamport Southport]

10 minutes ago, fezza said:

Yes but you've still got to sell it. 

 

Yes I know what a 48 is - the fact that many railfans won't is the problem. 

 

That's why they are asking people if they want one. It'll only go ahead if they get enough interest.

 

It's going to be a limited edition model of about 500 and will probably cost about £180 to £200. My numbers, not MRs, but going on current prices and run sizes of similar models.

 

 

So I take it that's a "no" then.....

 

[Covkid]

2 hours ago, fezza said:

Yes but you've still got to sell it. 

 

Yes I know what a 48 is - the fact that many railfans won't is the problem. 

 

2 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

That's why they are asking people if they want one. It'll only go ahead if they get enough interest.

 

It's going to be a limited edition model of about 500 and will probably cost about £180 to £200. My numbers, not MRs, but going on current prices and run sizes of similar models.

 

 

So I take it that's a "no" then.....

 

Being fair though, if it looks like a Brush 4 and moves like Brush 4 and has a D17xx number, it might appeal to anyone who wants a Brush 4 irrespective of the slightly different exhaust arrangement on the roof. After all, how many modellers strictly insist on the particular exhaust port on a Sulzer type two ?

[GD]

6 hours ago, spamcan61 said:

Because all of those are far, far more expensive and risky options than piggy-backing off Heljan's 47 tooling.

I would expect a class 104 would fly off the shelves, think of the liveries, nse, mexican bean, all over blue, all over blue with white stripes, all over blue with white cab roofs, blue and grey, various greensnd the Ken Dodd special livery.  Maybe a limited edition Manchester Victoria set complete with a figure of a fitter holding a watering can.  Happy days! 

[No Decorum]

7 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

How much capital do you think someone must have available to undertake any one of those projects?

Good point. Dibber25 has noted on here that Model Rail concentrates on small locomotives to minimise capital investment.

[TravisM]

40 minutes ago, No Decorum said:

Good point. Dibber25 has noted on here that Model Rail concentrates on small locomotives to minimise capital investment.

I think Dibber is right and partnering up with a mainstream manufacturer reduces risk, promotes both the magazine and manufacturer.  Let the big boys produce the items we covet as they have financial clout to cover the risk.

[Halvarras]

2 hours ago, Covkid said:

 

 After all, how many modellers strictly insist on the particular exhaust port on a Sulzer type two ?

 

Valid point IMO.......... since few modellers appear to care that Bachmann's early Class 25 in blue and later Class 25 in green have incorrect exhaust ports (with exceptions) I've often wondered whether Heljan should have turned a similar blind eye and produced their 'Slim Jim' Class 33/2 in green livery - if they were that reluctant then perhaps Hatton's missed a trick and should have commissioned Heljan to do these instead of gloss D6517 & weathered D6526 (I think) using the original class 33/0 tooling with later exhaust a few years back. Too late now I think as expectations have moved on and it wouldn't be acceptable in these hi-fi times.

[Clive Mortimore]

Another project that might be over taken by an RTR model.

 

 

Cant rail grilles, engine room doors and exhaust ports.

 

If I can bodge one then so can anyone.

 

Have fun making one if you want one.

[dibber25]

i haven't been involved in the Class 48 proposal in any way but I can guess what has happened. Heljan has offered Model Rail a chance to have some minor tooling variations to the new Class 47 model in order to create a Class 48 with minimum costs. There's no other way a Class 48 could be viable on its own but this makes it an easy job that's worth doing IF Sufficient people are interested. Hence the request for expressions of interest. Multiple units might be more desirable for a lot of modellers (and on a personal basis I'd much rather have a Class 120 than a Class 48) but the costs of developing and tooling ANY model these days are extremely high. The costs of developing and tooling a multiple unit are eye-watering! They are simply beyond the means of anyone but the major manufacturers, and only those who can expect to sell a large enough quantity over a long enough period to get a return on their investment. There is a world of difference between the cost of tooling a couple of slide changes in a mould, and tooling a complete three-car unit. It's, if you like, the difference between someone saying "I'm going to put a new front door on my house" and getting the reply " Why don't you demolish the whole house and build a shop instead?" (CJL)

[Hal Nail]

2 hours ago, dibber25 said:

It's, if you like, the difference between someone saying "I'm going to put a new front door on my house" and getting the reply " Why don't you demolish the whole house and build a shop instead?" (CJL)

Yes although this being RMWeb, if you ask a question you will get a reply. Just not to the question you asked!

[Halvarras]

The five members of Class 48 used to amuse us spotters in the late 1960s as their allocation regularly alternated between Tinsley 41A and Stratford 30A - they were that "popular"! 

Conversion to Class 47 finally enabled them to spread their wings - a near ex-works blue 1704 reached Penzance on 20th October 1971, I saw it at Truro on up train 1M23 and attempted a photo but it wasn't my Instamatic camera's finest hour.....

[adb968008]

If there is enough interest in a class 48, maybe attentions will turn to 47901 too.