Richmond Park - the final years of SWT in the London suburbs alongside the District Line

[Richmond Park]

With schools back and sometime to myself, I have taken the opportunity to look again at the track plan for the main scenic area.  This part of the build is proving somewhat challenging, I don't want to rush the track planning and laying then regret it later - for a start once the slot is cut in the baseboards for the underground to descend there will be no going back!  Equally, I do need to be decisive otherwise the layout will never get built 

 

A comparison of the following images with those previously uploaded shows that I am still thinking of a broadly similar arrangement.  I've sought to make the track layout more realistic by avoiding too much straight track - could be 'interesting' when it comes to installing the third rail! 

 

Where the S Stock, EMUs and test train are siting is where I envisage the start of the station.  I've started to subtly curve the track here before it curves more sharply out of view under where the raised town scene will be.  The main area of debate at present is whether the platform ends should stick out from under the raised town area and if so by how much.  With the station building above, I'm imaging that access to the platforms would be from the other side of the bridge as it were, otherwise it will be necessary to have too much of the station eating into the main scenic area.

 

I've also looked again at the engineers sidings and laid out an arrangement similar to that near East Croydon Station.  I envisage a station car park next to where the test train is siting and then a Network Rail compound beyond alongside the MPV and mess building.

 

Between the underground tracks and the wall I am thinking about having terrace housing.  Looking again at the photos, the gap here looks quite large in the centre so I may look at shifting the tracks further to the wall.

 

 

[Richmond Park]

Since my last update on 10th September there has been little layout time unfortunately.  I have however taken the decision to stick with the track plan which I uploaded previously for the main scenic area.    From my experience with my previous layout, no doubt the track plan will change a little as track laying takes place.  I have also settled on an arrangement for the fiddle yard which will achieve eight storage sidings of varying length - the longest will accommodate a scale length rail tour rake of 12 coaches plus two locos.

 

The time has now come to move onto the construction of the London Underground section.  Over the weekend I took the plunge and cut the slot which will form the ramp using a jigsaw.  I now need to support this, fill in the sides and continue the track bed round underneath by suspending it from the underside of the baseboards.  Achieving a realistic looking gradient on the ramp is important an objective.  I also need to ensure that there is sufficient room between the suspended track bed and baseboard above so that I can actually lay the track!

 

Once the underground section is built in terms of the carpentry, I hope to begin by laying the track on the underground first before moving onto the remainder.

 

 

I couldn't resist posing a couple of S Stock cars, gives an idea of how it will look.

 

 

[Stan68]

Wow!

[stivesnick]

8 hours ago, Richmond Park said:

I also need to ensure that there is sufficient room between the suspended track bed and baseboard above so that I can actually lay the track!

 

Would it be possible to support the "underground" section on a L shaped bracket that would allow you to lay the track on the trackbed and then slide it into position? There would still be the issue with the connection to the track on the ramp, but it would remove some of the problems.

 

Nick 

[Richmond Park]

On 21/09/2020 at 20:15, stivesnick said:

 

Would it be possible to support the "underground" section on a L shaped bracket that would allow you to lay the track on the trackbed and then slide it into position? There would still be the issue with the connection to the track on the ramp, but it would remove some of the problems.

 

Nick 

 

Hi Nick,

 

Thanks for your comments.  What you are suggesting sounds a good idea, I'll give this some further thought.

 

Cheers

Matt

[Richmond Park]

Further progress has been made on the underground section of the layout

 

To recap, the intention is that the District Line will disappear underground in the main scenic area of the layout.  This is the area pictured in my previous post.  The trackbed will then continue round under the baseboards at the far end of the layout, before rising back up to baseboard level.

 

The first two images below show the progress which has been made on the ramp to the rear of the fiddle yard boards.  The piece of wood laying on the trackbed is to be removed, this was used to help get the trackbed flat when bracing it underneath.

 

The incline here is a gentler gradient than that in the scenic area, since it has pretty much the entire length to get back up to baseboard level.  Mindful that I have some Underground appropriate Bachmann class 20s, a Heljan 'Sarah Siddons' and a motorised replica of the LT Museum's 1938 Stock (EFE), I'm currently considering whether I could have three tracks on the ramp itself.  This would give a centre road for the storage of the foregoing, enabling the S Stock trains to pass, but perhaps not great having stock stopping and starting on an incline?

 

 

The baseboards with green tops have been recycled from a previous project.  I had one spare, so this has been cut down and used at the base of the ramp, forming a sort of shelf.  My Son, aged 6, suggested that "we" should model part of an Underground station here   I think he has been inspired by what we saw at Legoland last Summer.

 

 

The final part of the underground trackbed is the connection between the green topped baseboard and the ramp within the scenic section.  This is still work in progress as pictured below with temporary clamps and brace.  The next job is to support the suspended trackbed with brackets from the baseboards above, and to fill in the sides of the ramp in the scenic section.

 

 

[hmrspaul]

This is a great project of a frequently overlooked part of the rail network. I knew it years earlier when I was brought up in Staines and would go through Richmond to go to Waterloo or change there to go either to Willesden high level to go into Euston or on the clerestory District sets to Turnham Green to go on the Piccadily line. I never did get my head around the stations being in SR green when the stock was LT overground units. Despite the importance of the line being the main freight railway from Weybridge through Feltham yard to Nine Elms huge goods sheds there are remarkably few photos illustrating the line on the internet, or in books. 

 

Good luck, a very nice project idea. 

 

Paul

[Richmond Park]

Taking a short break from the layout build, to look further at some of the rolling stock which will eventually run on Richmond Park.

 

Here are some more photos of my 8 car Bratchell Class 455/9 EMU set in SWT inner suburban livery.  Future jobs are to add a driver and to install working directional lighting so that they are closer in terms of spec to the Bachmann Desiro units they will run alongside.  As with my diesel fleet, these units will eventually need weathering to.

 

In real life these units are likely to be retired next year through the introduction of SWR's new Class 701 'Arterio' units, so catch em while you can!

 

Edited October 7, 2020 by Richmond Park

[Richmond Park]

A little more layout progress to share.

 

I am currently working behind the scenes to assemble items I shall need with the scenic work. Fortunately I managed to gather the majority of the track last winter prior to lockdown, but still need to acquire a number of key scenic items including ballast, LU cable hangers, signals etc.  It is a real pain not being able to get to an exhibition to pick up some of these items.

 

[Rhysb]

Great start to a good looking project! Looking forward to see this develop.

 

Did you apply the SWT red livery to these or did they come from Bratchells RTA like that?

 

Thanks

 

Rhys

[ess1uk]

Great idea.

looks good so far

[Richmond Park]

2 hours ago, Rhysb said:

Great start to a good looking project! Looking forward to see this develop.

 

Did you apply the SWT red livery to these or did they come from Bratchells RTA like that?

 

Thanks

 

Rhys

 

Hi Rhys,

Thanks for your support. The 455s were built for me by Britannia Pacific Models a couple of years back now.  Precision Paints make the SWT Stagecoach blue (no. 232), red (no. 233) and orange (no. 234).

Cheers

Matt

 

[Richmond Park]

Since my last update work commitments have prevented significant progress, nonetheless, the sides of the Underground ramp in what will be the scenic section have been filled in and the ramp is now fully braced 

 

Before starting work on the scenic walling I thought I better have a test run.  Unfortunately, testing of the S Stock on the ramps has revealed that the units are not keen on the gradient of the scenic ramp, even with the Bachmann supplied traction tyres fitted 

 

The S Stock is ok with the gradient of the return ramp behind the fiddle yard which is less steep as built over a longer run.  I think the answer is likely to be twofold; adding additional weight to each of the driving/motor cars to help traction and potentially altering the lower part of the ramp to make the gradient less steep 

 

Locomotives with more weight onboard like the Hornby Class 60 are fine with both ramps.  This isn't much use to me however, since the primary purpose of creating the ramp was to model the Underground which would be the domain of the S Stock.  A frustrating setback but I'm not giving up on the idea yet!

 

Here's some pictures of the S Stock posed on the ramp to give you an idea of what I hope to achieve.  In the image below, I will be looking to add terrace houses and gardens along the rear against the wall, with the National Rail tracks running in the area closest.

 

 

[croydon junction]

20 minutes ago, Richmond Park said:

Since my last update work commitments have prevented significant progress, nonetheless, the sides of the Underground ramp in what will be the scenic section have been filled in and the ramp is now fully braced 

 

Before starting work on the scenic walling I thought I better have a test run.  Unfortunately, testing of the S Stock on the ramps has revealed that the units are not keen on the gradient of the scenic ramp, even with the Bachmann supplied traction tyres fitted 

 

The S Stock is ok with the gradient of the return ramp behind the fiddle yard which is less steep as built over a longer run.  I think the answer is likely to be twofold; adding additional weight to each of the driving/motor cars to help traction and potentially altering the lower part of the ramp to make the gradient less steep 

 

Locomotives with more weight onboard like the Hornby Class 60 are fine with both ramps.  This isn't much use to me however, since the primary purpose of creating the ramp was to model the Underground which would be the domain of the S Stock.  A frustrating setback but I'm not giving up on the idea yet!

 

Here's some pictures of the S Stock posed on the ramp to give you an idea of what I hope to achieve.  In the image below, I will be looking to add terrace houses and gardens along the rear against the wall, with the National Rail tracks running in the area closest.

 

 

I know this might sound like a silly question but have you considered producing replacement motor bogies for your stock? If you knew your spatial constraints and dimensions, you could probably produce a bogie for a lower gear ratio which would give it the required torque to get up the ramp.

[Csalem]

Really looking forward to see how this layout develops. Love the idea of the Underground trains descending and ascending.

[Richmond Park]

On 31/10/2020 at 16:26, croydon junction said:

I know this might sound like a silly question but have you considered producing replacement motor bogies for your stock? If you knew your spatial constraints and dimensions, you could probably produce a bogie for a lower gear ratio which would give it the required torque to get up the ramp.

 

Hi, not a silly question at all - could be a possibility and is a good suggestion, thank you.  Apart from changing the motors in some Lima diesels back in the early 2000s pre-DCC days, its not something I've done before but will keep in mind. Cheers Matt

[Richmond Park]

Hello all,

 

I apologise that has been been quite some time since I provided an update on the progress of Richmond Park.  In the Autumn last year I started work on the London Underground aspect of the layout but ran into difficulties with Bachmann's S Stock models.  Despite creating what I thought was a relatively shallow ramp for the descending and ascending trains, the S Stock failed to make the climb.  After some tinkering, other commitments prevented any significant progress until more recently.

 

In order to overcome the problems experienced, it has proved necessary to adjust each of the ramps, slightly reducing the gradients so that they are less steep and the trains do not have to descend/ascend as much.  With hindsight, the original ramps did descend more than was strictly necessary but at the time I was probably too focused on how I would lay the track on the suspended underneath section and making sure I had enough space to work.

 

As you may be familiar, the Bachmann S Stock is similar to their Class 121 and 158 DMUs in that it has a low hidden motor mechanism.  This is good in that it affords a detailed interior but it does not provide the weight you will find with the larger cast block in a Class 108 or 150 DMU.  Consequently, in order to improve traction I have added lead to each of the two end motor cars.  This has been placed in the vestibule area between the doors.  The additional weight in combination with the traction tyres and reduce gradient appears to have done the job, and now a prototypical S7 set can now descend and ascend as planned.

 

Given the above, I have now commenced track laying   As you will see the photos, I have nearly completed both circuits, with just the outer track to complete where I intend to add a passing loop on the non-scenic ramp.  Once this is completed, the next stage will be to lay the National Rail tracks as shown in the photos uploaded previously.  As suggested by @stivesnick some of the underground track was laid and then the trackbed suspended in place afterwards - this made life much easier, so thank you for that suggestion.

 

With the ramp issue resolved, hopefully more timely progress can be made herein! Hope to update you again soon.

 

Matt

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 28, 2021 by Richmond Park

[Richmond Park]

A short video of the S Stock in action can be seen here;

 

 

[Csalem]

Looking forward to see how this layout develops. 

[Melangoose]

Your layout is coming on well.  Love the video with the background track.

[Richmond Park]

22 hours ago, Melangoose said:

Your layout is coming on well.  Love the video with the background track.

Thanks, progress to date has been much slower than I would have liked, hopefully I can continue the momentum herein.

[Melangoose]

2 hours ago, Richmond Park said:

Thanks, progress to date has been much slower than I would have liked, hopefully I can continue the momentum herein.

The thing is with home layouts,  that life can decide the pace.  But that’s not a problem, as you are better taking your time and getting it right, as against rushing and potentially making errors or looking back and deciding that you should have done it differently.

[Richmond Park]

Finally a little more layout progress to share, with the London Underground tracks now both laid and tested. This has created two separate continual loops which will become the eastbound and westbound District Line.

 

The picture below provides an overview of my railway room at one end, with the main scenic area to be on the left and the fiddle yard on the right.  This end of the layout will eventually be decked over, with a town scene and station entrance on the higher level and the tracks running below it.  The EWS Class 60 is sitting where the London Underground tracks start to descend to below baseboard level, they then return to baseboard level on the right hand side behind the fiddle yard.

 

 

 

These two pictures show the non-scenic ramp. Here a passing loop has been added in order that the S Stock can pass another train, such as my London Transport Museum 1938 Stock, Sarah Siddons or an engineers train.

 

 

I was intending to work on the National Rail tracks next but upon reflection I'm thinking that it may be better to work on the third and fourth rail in the scenic area first. I have not attempted this before but image it could be a little easier without any obstructions in the way.

 

 

 

[Squirrel Rail]

10 minutes ago, Richmond Park said:

Finally a little more layout progress to share, with the London Underground tracks now both laid and tested. This has created two separate continual loops which will become the eastbound and westbound District Line.

 

The picture below provides an overview of my railway room at one end, with the main scenic area to be on the left and the fiddle yard on the right.  This end of the layout will eventually be decked over, with a town scene and station entrance on the higher level and the tracks running below it.  The EWS Class 60 is sitting where the London Underground tracks start to descend to below baseboard level, they then return to baseboard level on the right hand side behind the fiddle yard.

 

 

 

These two pictures show the non-scenic ramp. Here a passing loop has been added in order that the S Stock can pass another train, such as my London Transport Museum 1938 Stock, Sarah Siddons or an engineers train.

 

 

I was intending to work on the National Rail tracks next but upon reflection I'm thinking that it may be better to work on the third and fourth rail in the scenic area first. I have not attempted this before but image it could be a little easier without any obstructions in the way.

 

 

 

Hi Matt, great to see you working again on @Richmond Park -and better news is that impulse purchase wasn’t another 57!!!

[Richmond Park]

Hello RmWeb, sorry it’s been a while!

 

Progress with the construction of Richmond Park was frustrating slow last year, as many of you will understand, work and family life often take priority to our hobbies.  This year I am more determined than ever to move the layout forward and have agreed to have a weekly modelling evening with a friend so we can work on each other’s layouts.  Hopefully setting time each week will result in more progress.

 

At this point the layout still comprises solely the two London Underground District Line tracks, which form a double loop around the room.  I have resisted the temptation to start laying the National Rail tracks in order that I can work on the Underground dive under and 3rd/4th rail unimpeded by the other track.

 

Last month I started work on the retaining wall for the dive under, the majority of which is brickwork.  Being South West London, I have opted for a local London 'yellow' stock brick, something I rarely see modelled on layouts, presumably because of the challenges associated with replicating its appearance.  To recreate the brickwork, I have opted for Southeast Finecast sheets glued to plastic sheet for additional strength.  For the end of the dive under, at the deepest part, I have opted for reinforced concrete, which has been achieved by spraying plastic sheeting with Plastic-Kote Suede touch paint.

 

 

The brick was first painted with Humbrol 83 (ochre), I then went over this with various Faber Castell artists pencils and dry brushed with Humbrol 29 (dark earth).  As it stands, everything appears too clean for my liking so will be weathered along with the track once my airbrush comes out.  I am also minded to add graffiti and patches where the graffiti has been painted over, sadly a fact of life for urban scenes such as this.

 

I have amended the entrance of the tunnel portal from that originally planned, with the opening being made square and a beam inserted across the face.  At a later stage, a low wall will be added around the top of the dive under with a metal safety railing.

 

 

This past week I have commenced ballasting.  For this I have used Hattons Highland Ballast on the wooden sleeper section and a Woodland Scenics grey blend for the newer concrete section at surface level.

 

 

The next stage is to lay the 3rd and 4th rail.  Initial tests suggest that using the Peco individulay track components is likely to prove problematic.  From my test I found that the shoes of the Bachmann Class 450 Desiro units do not appear to clear the 3rd rail.  Also, the motor bogies of the Bachmann S Stock appear to touch the 4th rail. I had anticipated an issue with the 4th rail, which is presumably why some modellers glues their 4th rail straight onto the sleeper without any supporting chair.  However, I hadn’t anticipated an issue with the 3rd rail, so both need further investigation.

 

For anyone who is interested, I often post more regular updates, including short videos, on Twitter since this is quicker.

 

Edited February 3, 2022 by Richmond Park
Added photos