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1 minute ago, Chimer said:

Fwiw, XTrackCad thinks the divergences for the curved point are 20.25 and 9!

 

I think there's a difference between the divergence at the heel vs the radius overall of the curved point. It was the latter that I was trying to calculate in order to work how to complete a 180 degree turn.

 

Sorry @Newbie2020 if I've inadvertently taken your thread off at an odd angle :D

 

Gra.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Here's a suggestion using all Streamline turnouts, then:

newb4.png.2cd9a4250715dbf566ae1b75741182be.png

 

  • Very similar to many of the plans above. A highly compressed design and so you have to accept some compromises.
  • R2 radius end curves with Streamline curved turnouts (20° and 8°!) forming the transitions to straight.
  • R2 is tight but it means there's space for the terminus pointwork above and room for the passing loop below.
  • 3 coach trains are just about possible if you're willing to have the loco stand foul of the points in the passing loop of the bottom station.
  • The terminus headshunt is long enough to move 3 coaches between platforms and carriage siding (the 3rd one down).
  • The 3 "goods yard" sidings at the top station could be anything you fancy. In reality they are probably a "scenic fiddle yard".
  • The goods sidings are held 67mm away from the nearby R2 curve to prevent collisions.
  • Platform widths just about within regs. Imagine they are wider and simply sliced by the edge of the world. There's just room for a very low relief station building at the top if you want it there.
  • The inner platform at the bottom station isn't long enough for 3 coaches but it's OK for shorter trains to stop, for trains to pass each other and can be used to terminate local services from the big station.
  • The green area is lift-off scenery covering the 2ft square access hole and forming the tunnel over the right hand end of the oval.
  • I left some space at the left hand end of the oval for scenery and to give the terminus sidings more space.
  • Special turnouts:
    • Small Y in the industrial area to divide the tracks very quickly.
    • 3-way in the terminus to maximise siding lengths.
    • Large Right giving a smooth exit from the terminus out to the main circuit.
  • Dotted tracks are optional.

Have I got the size of the extension board correct? 800 by 500mm?

 

Actually the design works slightly better if it's rotated by 2 degrees. Then the space is used better, the platforms are wider in places, there's more room for a station building and everything feels more dynamic. But it would be tricky to lay out!

 

Edited by Harlequin
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27 minutes ago, OhOh said:

 

I think there's a difference between the divergence at the heel vs the radius overall of the curved point. It was the latter that I was trying to calculate in order to work how to complete a 180 degree turn.

 

Sorry @Newbie2020 if I've inadvertently taken your thread off at an odd angle :D

 

Gra.

 

 

 

The figures I quoted are the angles XTrackCad thinks the inner and outer legs of the point turn through, i.e the differences between the angles of straights attached to the three ends.  Assuming it's right, if you make the turn using the inner legs you'll need 9 (and go a bit past 182 degrees), using the outer legs you'll need 20.  Peco give the nominal radii as 30 and 60 inches, which doesn't seem relevant to the question, but doing the exercise with the inner legs suggests that you will actually get the centreline round in 56".  The curved points certainly don't seem to fit with the rest of the Streamline geometry as neatly as they might, but then that's what flexitrack's for :)

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9 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

Here's a suggestion using all Streamline turnouts, then:

newb4.png.2cd9a4250715dbf566ae1b75741182be.png

 

  • Very similar to many of the plans above. A highly compressed design and so you have to accept some compromises.
  • R2 radius end curves with Streamline curved turnouts (20° and 8°!) forming the transitions to straight.
  • R2 is tight but it means there's space for the terminus pointwork above and room for the passing loop below.
  • 3 coach trains are just about possible if you're willing to have the loco stand foul of the points in the passing loop of the bottom station.
  • The terminus headshunt is long enough to move 3 coaches between platforms and carriage siding (the 3rd one down).
  • The 3 "goods yard" sidings at the top station could be anything you fancy. In reality they are probably a "scenic fiddle yard".
  • The goods sidings are held 67mm away from the nearby R2 curve to prevent collisions.
  • Platform widths just about within regs. Imagine they are wider and simply sliced by the edge of the world. There's just room for a very low relief station building at the top if you want it there.
  • The inner platform at the bottom station isn't long enough for 3 coaches but it's OK for shorter trains to stop, for trains to pass each other and can be used to terminate local services from the big station.
  • The green area is lift-off scenery covering the 2ft square access hole and forming the tunnel over the right hand end of the oval.
  • I left some space at the left hand end of the oval for scenery and to give the terminus sidings more space.
  • Spacial turnouts:
    • Small Y in the industrial area to divide the tracks very quickly.
    • 3-way in the terminus to maximise siding lengths.
    • Large Right giving a smooth exit from the terminus out to the main circuit.
  • Dotted tracks are optional.

Have I got the size of the extension board correct? 800 by 500mm?

 

Actually the design works slightly better it if' rotated by 2 degrees. Then the space is used better, the platforms are wider in places, there's more room fro s station building and everything feels more dynamic. But it would be tricky to lay out!

 

Phil, That looks fantastic to me! Thankyou so much for that.

 

Yes the extension is 800 x 500 although (#Breaking news!) I've opened up negotiations that could allow  this to be increased to 800 x 800! (Still not allowing puppies into the negotiation though!)

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2 hours ago, Harlequin said:
  • Special turnouts:
    • Small Y in the industrial area to divide the tracks very quickly.
    • 3-way in the terminus to maximise siding lengths.
    • Large Right giving a smooth exit from the terminus out to the main circuit.

 

It looks like the three way point that you've included in an asymmetric version, which is only available in Peco's Code 75 range.  That may not be an issue, but I note that @Newbie2020 originally set out with the intention of using Code 100.  Using the symmetric variant from the Code 100 range would reduce the clearance between the sidings and the continuous run and therefore may not work.  Hopefully using code 75 won't be a problem.

 

2 hours ago, Newbie2020 said:

Yes the extension is 800 x 500 although (#Breaking news!) I've opened up negotiations that could allow  this to be increased to 800 x 800! (Still not allowing puppies into the negotiation though!)

 

The problem with making the end section wider is that it would start to open up an area that would be difficult to reach from both the access hatch (at the location currently shown) and the area that you currently have to the bottom left.  The area of problematic reach would be the end of the platform at the terminus station.  I'd say at the moment it would be full stretch and the wider you make the end board, the more difficult that will become.

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28 minutes ago, Dungrange said:

 

It looks like the three way point that you've included in an asymmetric version, which is only available in Peco's Code 75 range.  That may not be an issue, but I note that @Newbie2020 originally set out with the intention of using Code 100.  Using the symmetric variant from the Code 100 range would reduce the clearance between the sidings and the continuous run and therefore may not work.  Hopefully using code 75 won't be a problem.

 

 

Alternatively, you include a short section of straight track between the 3-way and the point on the run-round loop, moving the carriage siding away from the RRL slightly but allowing a symmetric (or almost symmetric!) 3 way to be used.

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As ever another well thought through plan from Phil. 

 

A minor point - if I may. I'd recommend that if @Newbie2020did go with this plan it'd be worth moving the two goods sheds (terminus and industrual area) forward a bit, closer to their respective turnouts. That way they'd be easier to shunt multiple wagons through, I think?

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Yes, that's very very playable.  One passenger train circulating while a second awaits departure from the terminus.  Then both cross in bottom station before first proceeds to terminus, second circulates while first reforms to repeat.  Also possibility of puzzle shunting the terminus goods yard, after train engine runs round arriving freight - as drawn using platform road to run round, maybe better with a run-round on the freight side too, so a passenger train can be in the platform while this happens?  That yard could the tracks splayed out a bit and have recognisably specific locations for specific freight wagons (coal staithes etc) to add interest.  And a freight departure can visit the industry in the centre before returning, though shunting there will block the main line.  I may have to try designing a variant of this to fit one of my potential spaces ........ it ticks a lot of boxes, if not entirely suitable for long pacific-hauled expresses!

 

And it's flat!

Edited by Chimer
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On 13/08/2020 at 15:50, Flying Pig said:

 

I think with a slightly simpler approach you could get up to a loco plus three, which improves the appearance of a train quite considerably in my view - see the pictures of @Keith Addenbrooke's layout on this thread

 

Your platform lengths are significantly constrained first by fitting a terminus onto the rather short extension and second by the return loop.  A basic double track circuit would probably allow at least one through station with longer platforms and more siding space for storing stock,and shunting.  Your extension would make a good location for a loco shed for example.

 

That layout no longer exists, but it may be relevant to note for this conversation that the way I ran “3 coaches plus Express Loco” trains on an 8’ x 4’ baseboard used a simple dodge in the planning: I had a single track line with a run-round / passing loop that went around one end of the layout (the photo shows a train in the run-round loop - it is not actually a double track main line).  The platforms could then extend into the start of the end curve to give the length needed.  I’m not sure that would work here though and would therefore agree with @Harlequin’s observation about engines fouling points in this regard on this layout.

 

My compromise (as well as train length) was to accept the sight of large locos on a single track line - the other end of the circuit was planned to go into a tunnel - as in the suggestions for this plan, but I never got that far with the layout.  The idea came from an American outline layout in a Kalmbach book and is one I’ve seen used in several American 8’ x 4’ plans, where one long run-round loop effectively serves both sides of a tabletop layout.

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My first train-set was on an 8x4 sheet of gloss green painted 1/4"plywood. with only a minimal bracing and built by a well meaning parent who never attended a woodwork class...

 

Two circuits of track Tri-ang Super Four R3 and R2.

 

R3 was always clutching at the baseboard edge.

 

It ran faultlessly for hours and hours with few trains over the edge.

 

The B12 ran until the smoke fluid was used then ran for hours more after the wadding was well soaked. Or Nellie hauled a freight train with motion a grey blur for hours on end.

 

I did install a diamond crossing in lieu of the facing cross over on the R2 circuit allowing me to store a train off the loop.

 

Being 10 and trying to span 4' usually had all my Tri-ang houses sliding to the abut the inner loop at some point during operations.

 

XxxxX

 

What we have here is basically a tail chaser on a big sheet of base material with an access cut out at one end.

 

Sometimes we look at plans from the wrong end of our telescope of experience, and biased towards the Hornby Baseboard Full of Track plans.

 

Seem that if you set a wide design brief you end up with a camel. Some aspects have to go.

 

I think you can only have a either a tail chaser or a freight yard but I don't think you can have both if you wish to have two loops of OO.

 

My thought would be build an intermediate station and scenic effect on one edge of the board.

 

Say a length of about 18-1900mm. Think Corrour for a basis.

 

Split the line in the non scenic area into a fan of storage lines. Possibly sub-divide to get two DMU into one of the four car plus loco storage roads.

 

The small additional baseboard can be a small non-scenic loco store.

 

You can then have your roundy roundy, plus a space for a small freight service also operated roundy roundy.

 

That way you get the best from the least.

 

Modelled in N it would be possible to run scale length passenger trains and a possibly a few more freight cars.

 

You can have continuous running. Or passing passenger cross-over.

 

I'm suggesting you strip out all the wadding and concentrate the essence of mainline allied with a round roundy requirements

Edited by Sturminster_Newton
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