LMS Experimental Blue Livery

[Jonathan.M]

Hello,

 

Does anyone know the exact shade of blue the LMS used after WWII on Jubilee class ‘Newfoundland’ 5573 and Coronation class ‘Duchess of Abercorn’ 6234 as an experimental livery?

 

Most sites I’ve found describe it as RAF blue-grey, but there are many other sources that say (or show) otherwise. I’ve included a few photos of computer generated models and a painting below. Wikipedia also describes the paint as ‘blue-grey’ but has never authenticated.    

 

The locos were also apparently lined on only one side with red-cream lining around the cab side and tender with cream along the running boards, but I’ve found no images confirming this and I’m not sure how to go about replicating this. Any help would be appreciated.

[Steamport Southport]

This has come up before.

 

According to some accounts it was more Slate Grey rather than blue. That blue colour is more like the BR "Caledonian" inspired Express Passenger livery. Too blue according to some sources.

 

A previous thread.

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/137531-grey-duchess-of-abercorn-lettering/

 

 

 

 

 

Jason

[Nearholmer]

Massively debated subject, but this is the shade I favour, on the basis that contemporary commentators were familiar with it, and said the LMS colour was the same. But, models always look better with the colours slightly de-saturated, to represent viewing distance.

 

Ace Trains of London make Newfoundland in the livery under discussion, and having seen the model, I would say that (a) maybe they got it too pale, and (b) the colour is very sensitive to lighting, so looks hugely different in shade as compared to bright lighting.

 

Edited August 10, 2020 by Nearholmer

[Steamport Southport]

The sample seems about right in my imagining of it from descriptions.

 

The model seems far to light. Wrenn did the Duchess in a similar shade which didn't look feasible and more like photographic grey.

 

https://wrennmodelrailways.com/wrenn-locomotives/wrenn-leeds-king-george-vi-duchess-class-8p-4-6-2-br-black-locomotive-w2311-901.html

 

 

 

Jason

[Nearholmer]

Ace did research it very deeply, though, I know, so ..........

 

It is part of a series of “weird livery” models that they’ve done, which they put a great deal of research into. When I see these experimental liveries of the late 1940s, the BR ones too, I can quite understand why they weren’t chosen for widespread use; some of them are truly eye-poking!
 

[Jonathan.M]

10 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

This has come up before.

 

According to some accounts it was more Slate Grey rather than blue. That blue colour is more like the BR "Caledonian" inspired Express Passenger livery. Too blue according to some sources.

 

A previous thread.

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/137531-grey-duchess-of-abercorn-lettering/

 

 

 

 

 

Jason

Thanks for showing me this, I’ll have to find a shade of RAF blue-grey that looks best. 
 

As for the lining, Wikipedia describes it as ‘pale straw yellow line along the running plate with yellow and black edging to cab and tender’, the lining only being applied to one side. Any suggestions on how I should go about modelling this (e.g. waterslide decals in appropriate colours) ?

[Steamport Southport]

16 hours ago, Jonathan.M said:

Thanks for showing me this, I’ll have to find a shade of RAF blue-grey that looks best. 
 

As for the lining, Wikipedia describes it as ‘pale straw yellow line along the running plate with yellow and black edging to cab and tender’, the lining only being applied to one side. Any suggestions on how I should go about modelling this (e.g. waterslide decals in appropriate colours) ?

 

The lining was the same as the LMS 1946 lined black. Most of the transfer manufacturers make it.

 

Here's the HMRS version.

 

https://hmrs.org.uk/transfers/lms-locomotive-lining-150333.html

 

The numbers aren't the 1946 style though. Something the people doing the mock ups seem to often get wrong. They had LMS serif style in straw rather than the Block numbering.

 

https://hmrs.org.uk/transfers/lms-block-styles-amp-crewe-straw-loco-and-coach-insignia-150328.html

 

http://taillampphotography.com/Graphics Used For Website/STEAM/COLLECTION/LONDON MIDLAND REGION/MKLRaBRLM01215UK.jpg

 

 

Jason

Edited August 11, 2020 by Steamport Southport

[laurenceb]

This got old memory cells working, according to Locomotive Liveries of the LMS by David Jenkinson 6234 was only painted blue/grey on the right hand side. There is a photo by HC Casserley in the book of the back of the tender that backs this up.

[Jonathan.M]

43 minutes ago, laurenceb said:

according to Locomotive Liveries of the LMS by David Jenkinson 6234 was only painted blue/grey on the right hand side. There is a photo by HC Casserley in the book of the back of the tender that backs this up.

Do you have a photo of this? From what I’ve found, it was only the lining that was on one side only, not the blue-grey paint. 

[laurenceb]

The only one I have seen is the one in the book I mentioned. There is a distinct diference in shade on the back of the tender. Unless someone has come up with more info since I have no reason to dought David Jenkinsons word and presumabley Mr Casserley's

[laurenceb]

But I have to say I can't understand why they would only paint half the loco

[LMS2968]

7 hours ago, laurenceb said:

The only one I have seen is the one in the book I mentioned. There is a distinct diference in shade on the back of the tender. Unless someone has come up with more info since I have no reason to dought David Jenkinsons word and presumabley Mr Casserley's

I know the photo, and it looks to me more like light reflected on one half of the tender rather than different colours.