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Charlton Bridge - 4mm BR(S) - Building Bridges


ikcdab
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  • RMweb Gold
3 hours ago, ISW said:

Ian C,

 

Looking really impressive! I admire your ability to cut the plywood trackbed to the alignment of the tracks.

 

How are you getting those printouts to be so perfectly aligned? When I inkjet printed mine, as a grid of A4-sheets (I don't have a larger printer), no matter how much care I took there was always 'some' small mis-alignments. Some sheets of paper were ~0.5mm different in size and, of course, there is no guarantee that the printer will print perfectly accurately in the right place on the paper every time.

 

How strong is your 'open' type of construction? On my layout (flat-ish plywood framed baseboards) I have found it necessary to actually climb onto the baseboards to be able to install tracks at the 'back' of the baseboards. Scenery access will be fine, but not the actual tracklaying.

 

Ian W

Hi Ian, thanks for looking in.

I do print out in A3 which makes things easier of course.

I suppose I am just very careful! We have a large kitchen worktop and that gets cleared. I join up the pages a row at a time. Using a decent steel straight edge and a sharp knife on the cutting mat, I chop down the middle of the join lines on the pages. Of course, only one side gets chopped off. Then I carefully overlap the two pages to be joined and using paperweights to hold them in position (tins of beans will also do the same job) get them lined up as perfectly as I can. Once happy they are lined up, I carefully lift up the overlapping edge and apply prittstick and carefully stick them together.

Once I have done all the rows, then I join the rows together in a similar way. I usually get some small errors, but I can even them out to get a decent template.

As for my baseboards, they seem very strong. It helps that they are screwed to the walls. I haven't tried sitting on them and I'm not going to try it, but I reckon i could if I was careful!

Ian

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  • RMweb Gold
11 hours ago, ISW said:

How are you getting those printouts to be so perfectly aligned? When I inkjet printed mine, as a grid of A4-sheets (I don't have a larger printer), no matter how much care I took there was always 'some' small mis-alignments. Some sheets of paper were ~0.5mm different in size and, of course, there is no guarantee that the printer will print perfectly accurately in the right place on the paper every time.

 

Hi Ian,

 

The secret to accurately aligned template pages is to print on thicker paper. Ordinary 80gsm office paper is not good for accurate track construction.

 

I recommend 160gsm paper for Templot templates, which is almost a thin card:

 

 https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B002YCH5OG

 

It can be trimmed along the printed red lines on both pages. The edges can then be butted together on a flat surface in good alignment without overlaps, like laying tiles. A strip of adhesive tape along the join then sticks them together, and if needed another on the back makes a strong join. Alternatively the "tiles" can be stuck separately to a backing sheet, such as a roll of decorators lining paper (from DIY shops). Or directly to the cork trackbed.

 

Martin.

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  • RMweb Gold
18 minutes ago, martin_wynne said:

 

Hi Ian,

 

The secret to accurately aligned template pages is to print on thicker paper. Ordinary 80gsm office paper is not good for accurate track construction.

 

I recommend 160gsm paper for Templot templates, which is almost a thin card:

 

 https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B002YCH5OG

 

It can be trimmed along the printed red lines on both pages. The edges can then be butted together on a flat surface in good alignment without overlaps, like laying tiles. A strip of adhesive tape along the join then sticks them together, and if needed another on the back makes a strong join. Alternatively the "tiles" can be stuck separately to a backing sheet, such as a roll of decorators lining paper (from DIY shops). Or directly to the cork trackbed.

 

Martin.

Hi Martin, thats useful advice and you have the years of experience behind you. I have used 80gsm and it was largely OK. I do get some small mismatches, but i try and arrange page boundaries such that they don't cross critical bits of templates such as crossing vees etc and if i do get mismatches, i can usually even them out.

I prefer to cut one side and overlap because i find prittstick easier than sellotape.

Ian C

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31 minutes ago, martin_wynne said:

It can be trimmed along the printed red lines on both pages. The edges can then be butted together on a flat surface in good alignment without overlaps, like laying tiles. A strip of adhesive tape along the join then sticks them together, and if needed another on the back makes a strong join.

Martin,

 

Thanks for the information, but I'm assuming this is Templot specific?

 

The software I used printed out my layout in tiled A4-sheets (as that's what my printer can use) with no overlaps, but did include registration marks and page numbers. I was therefore lining up the A4-sheets and not the printout. And thereby was the problem. If (when?) the printer didn't get the image 'exactly' central on the sheet of A4 it would cause a slight misalignment. Lesson learnt, as they say.

 

I did use a strip of tape along the back of all joints, once I'd 'tacked' them together on the front using small 'tabs' of the same tape.

 

I eliminated any mis-alignments by using a 1m steel rule over the full length of straights and my box of Railway Curves at curved track. However, I can't see that method working with long sweeping curves, or at least not easily.

 

Ian

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  • RMweb Gold
14 minutes ago, ikcdab said:

I prefer to cut one side and overlap because i find prittstick easier than sellotape.

 

Hi Ian,

 

Ordinary sellotape is very messy to use. However this stuff is easy and clean to use, especially if you have the dispenser:

 

 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Scotch-Magic-Tape-810-Invisible/dp/B001NOV9LQ

 

Martin.

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  • RMweb Gold
Just now, ISW said:

Martin,

 

Thanks for the information, but I'm assuming this is Templot specific?

 

 

Hi Ian,

 

Yes it is. Templot prints red trim lines on the templates for the very reason you explain.

 

I can't speak for other software which relies on the printer feed for accuracy.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

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  • RMweb Gold
3 minutes ago, martin_wynne said:

 

Hi Ian,

 

Ordinary sellotape is very messy to use. However this stuff is easy and clean to use, especially if you have the dispenser:

 

 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Scotch-Magic-Tape-810-Invisible/dp/B001NOV9LQ

 

Martin.

Hi Martin, yes I had forgotten about magic tape. I worked in the civil service for many years creating graphics and magic tape was our "go to" sticky tape. It has a slightly matt surface that can be written on, unlike sellotape.

Ian

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  • RMweb Gold

Lessons learned, no .......

Well so a useful Sunday. I managed to build two of the turnouts leading into the storage sidings. These are copperclad as it's so much quicker than individual chairs and it's the hidden loops.

 

20201026_105645.jpg.7da8b6b884c09b75cb303eea3dd86603.jpg

 

Overall I'm very pleased with the result. I like the nice sweeping curve of the plain line through the two turnouts 

But a mistake. I seem to have over filed two of the switch blades. Maybe because I wasn't paying attention. And they are just too whippy and fine to open properly.

 

20201026_105620.jpg.872c953cc98a0145663d7f1cab99a790.jpg

 

Also not sure that the left hand blade here is the right shape. I may not have tapered it enough. So I have now made another pair which look better. Just now to unsolder the old ones and replace them!

Ian

Edited by ikcdab
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  • RMweb Gold
41 minutes ago, ikcdab said:

I seem to have over filed two of the switch blades. Maybe because I wasn't paying attention. And they are just too whippy and fine to open properly.

 

 

Hi Ian,

 

A common mistake. The planing on both sides should extend only as far as marked "stock gauge" - "planing" on the templates. Adjust the set (bend) in the stock rail until you have a full extra rail-width between the stock rails at that position.

 

On the inside, plane only the head of the rail, at an angle:

 

2_212140_560000000.png

 

The remaining foot then stiffens the tip, so that the blade opens sufficiently all along.

 

If the stock rails are set correctly, there is much less metal to remove from the blades than might be expected.

 

Having the foot intact also makes it easier to make a robust model tie-bar connection, either for a solid copper-clad design, or for a pivoting pin:

 

2_251109_560000000.png

 

2_060951_320000000.png

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

Edited by martin_wynne
tie-bar images added
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Ian

 

A bit late for these unless you refit them, before fitting the finished blades bend them to shape, firstly by insuring the plaining of the blades lines up on the outside of the curve and that the radius on the inside switch rail is slightly smaller than needed, the switch rail will automatically rest against the stock rail, for the outside switch blade the radii is slightly larger. What happens is your gauges will automatically set the correct radii from the stock rails when you solder them to the timbers, but the blades will lightly spring against the stock rail

Edited by hayfield
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4 hours ago, ikcdab said:

 

20201026_105645.jpg.e0de74344c7de65cc5f5b93deb708a22.jpg

 

Ian C,

 

Interesting timbering at the heel of the turnout. I don't know what UK practice would be, but in Germany (and as a result quite a lot of the World) those sleepers would be through timbers until the length exceeded 4700mm, at which point you can fit in 2x 2300mm sleepers and gradually increase the lengths (in 100mm steps) until standard 2600mm sleepers fit. They don't like interlacing the sleepers, probably because it makes tamping more difficult.

 

If it's concrete bearers then that's different again ...

 

Ian W

 

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  • RMweb Gold
40 minutes ago, ISW said:

Interesting timbering at the heel of the turnout. I don't know what UK practice would be

 

 

Hi Ian,

 

Here is some recent discussion about UK bullhead practice from the Templot forum.

 

2_080826_590000000.png

 

There is no harm in using long timbers past the vee rail joints, but not if they would need to be longer than 15ft, which is the longest stock size, longer timbers are ordered as specials*. And a 15ft timber is more expensive than two ordinary sleepers, so used only if the gang happen to have such serviceable used long timbers to hand. It is also possible for two shorter timbers to spliced together on-site to make a longer one. Timbers are wider than sleepers, so there is greater scope for moving chairs off-centre, if needed to make space for the fishplates at rail joints.

 

Here I have changed the A1 sleeper to a 9ft-6in timber. The longest special crossing chair for an REA 1:16 crossing is the H chair, so A1 would be carrying two bridge chairs for the middle rails.

For the outer track I rolled the timbers to interleave, and then skewed the first sleeper at A to better support the outer rail.

 

We know that the inner track is a standard 60ft rail length. It's very likely therefore that it is a standard track panel, with the joints opposite one another.

But the outer track is a shorter length, so there is no reason for both rails to be the same length. Here I used a longer outer rail**, moving the joint to B, where it is better supported. And allowing more freedom in positioning the sleepers at A.

 

Until now moving the joint in Templot involves some faffing about with partial templates. I suspect most users would simply mark up the printed template. Templot is an aid to building the track, it's not trying to produce a perfect drawing of the finished track. But in the next program update it will be possible to change the positions of rail joints.

 

*apart from 20ft (or 19ft-6in) which are stocked to reach across double track in crossovers (at 6ft way).

 

**providing it is not longer than 60ft.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

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  • RMweb Gold
2 hours ago, martin_wynne said:

 

Hi Ian,

 

Here is some recent discussion about UK bullhead practice from the Templot forum.

 

2_080826_590000000.png

 

There is no harm in using long timbers past the vee rail joints, but not if they would need to be longer than 15ft, which is the longest stock size, longer timbers are ordered as specials*. And a 15ft timber is more expensive than two ordinary sleepers, so used only if the gang happen to have such serviceable used long timbers to hand. It is also possible for two shorter timbers to spliced together on-site to make a longer one. Timbers are wider than sleepers, so there is greater scope for moving chairs off-centre, if needed to make space for the fishplates at rail joints.

 

Here I have changed the A1 sleeper to a 9ft-6in timber. The longest special crossing chair for an REA 1:16 crossing is the H chair, so A1 would be carrying two bridge chairs for the middle rails.

For the outer track I rolled the timbers to interleave, and then skewed the first sleeper at A to better support the outer rail.

 

We know that the inner track is a standard 60ft rail length. It's very likely therefore that it is a standard track panel, with the joints opposite one another.

But the outer track is a shorter length, so there is no reason for both rails to be the same length. Here I used a longer outer rail**, moving the joint to B, where it is better supported. And allowing more freedom in positioning the sleepers at A.

 

Until now moving the joint in Templot involves some faffing about with partial templates. I suspect most users would simply mark up the printed template. Templot is an aid to building the track, it's not trying to produce a perfect drawing of the finished track. But in the next program update it will be possible to change the positions of rail joints.

 

*apart from 20ft (or 19ft-6in) which are stocked to reach across double track in crossovers (at 6ft way).

 

**providing it is not longer than 60ft.

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

Thank you both. These are the hidden storage sidings, hence the copper clad and odd sleepering. On the "scenic" area, I have done much timber shoving etc.

Good comments tho, so thanks 

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  • RMweb Gold
On 26/10/2020 at 11:36, martin_wynne said:

 

Hi Ian,

 

A common mistake. The planing on both sides should extend only as far as marked "stock gauge" - "planing" on the templates. Adjust the set (bend) in the stock rail until you have a full extra rail-width between the stock rails at that position.

 

On the inside, plane only the head of the rail, at an angle:

 

2_212140_560000000.png

 

The remaining foot then stiffens the tip, so that the blade opens sufficiently all along.

 

If the stock rails are set correctly, there is much less metal to remove from the blades than might be expected.

 

Having the foot intact also makes it easier to make a robust model tie-bar connection, either for a solid copper-clad design, or for a pivoting pin:

 

2_251109_560000000.png

 

2_060951_320000000.png

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

Martin yes I was careful to only file up to the planing length. I think I just took off too much in the taper and certainly I took off too much on the inside so the whole tip is too flimsy. I have today filed a new set which are much better. Also I managed to unsolder the old ones with not too much damage. I tackle the resoldering tomorrow and see how it goes. 

I have done a reasonable amount of turnout construction in the past without problems so I don't know why I fouled up this one.

I added tiebar and servo to the one such is ok. See below.

And before anyone says, yes I have just soldered the tiebar on. It works for me!

 

20201026_184221.jpg.d6614920a8fd29a5ae64372c76b7612b.jpg

Ian

Edited by ikcdab
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2 hours ago, martin_wynne said:

There is no harm in using long timbers past the vee rail joints, but not if they would need to be longer than 15ft, which is the longest stock size, longer timbers are ordered as specials*

Martin,

 

Just for comparison here is the timbering of standard German UIC60-300-1:9c (common crossing) turnout showing the use of through timbers at the heel of the turnout:

300_1-10.jpg.a3524f72491e0194aa4c531bacf07fdc.jpg

 

I hope the JPG is clear enough. If you'd like the PDF I can post that as well.

 

Ian

 

ps: Ian C, sorry for 'cluttering up' your layout page with turnout timbering 'dross' Let me know if it's a problem. 

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  • RMweb Gold

So yes I managed to resolder the badly fitting switch blade. In removing the old one, some of the copperclad came loose, but I superglued it back down. The new blade fits much better. I now know that if you heat superglued components you get awful fumes!

 

20201028_172500.jpg.36f65a309623d171093a941d840344a7.jpg

It might look less than tidy, but in the flesh it's ok and it is the storage sidings.

 

Next I continued laying track through the storage sidings. These are the mainlines...

 

20201028_172513.jpg.68be2dae22db03cd491dc5e111f30b36.jpg

These have come to an abrupt end because I ran out of copydex. 

 

The two copperclad turnouts had their servos fitted, connected to MERG drivers and wired into the premade relay panels. This is shot under the baseboards.

 

20201028_172534.jpg.97514a62f0aa9dd1f1923aab030fddab.jpg

 So what next? I have run out of most things and they are on order. The next priority is the storage sidings control panel and wiring that in. Then much more track laying.

And we can run trains, shuttling up and down. Can't wait to get the full circuit in!

Ian

Edited by ikcdab
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3 hours ago, ikcdab said:

This is shot under the baseboards.

20201028_172534.jpg.7ee30b1fe46a3ef108f1684b5e08858b.jpg

Ian,

 

Since you have the open type baseboards, wouldn't it have been easier / better to put as much of the electrics on the 'vertical' faces of the baseboard where you get more access (and less soldering against gravity)?

 

Nice servo mounts you have there. Not a design I can use though due to the vertical space requirements.

 

Ian

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  • RMweb Gold
13 minutes ago, ISW said:

Ian,

 

Since you have the open type baseboards, wouldn't it have been easier / better to put as much of the electrics on the 'vertical' faces of the baseboard where you get more access (and less soldering against gravity)?

 

Nice servo mounts you have there. Not a design I can use though due to the vertical space requirements.

 

Ian

Ian, thanks. I have done what you say. In fact, all soldering is done "off site" as i have built everything as premade units. These are then screwed to the baseboard framing and wired together with screw connectors of various types. The reason i placed the servo driver board where it is because i wanted to keep servo leads as short as possible.

The soldering iron is there because i have been soldering droppers to rail.

The servo mounts are from Megapoints. They work out at £1 each. To begin with i made my own out of aluminium section, but i found it too difficult to drill/cut it accurately enough and i got frustrated. Hence i just paid up and bought the megapoints ones. I just "hot glue" these to the baseboard. The only trouble with that is that there isnt enough time for adjustment before the glue goes off. I might try PVA and just fix it with tape which it sets. Or try and find a glue that give about 30secs adjustment time.....

Thanks for looking in

Ian

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11 hours ago, ikcdab said:

The servo mounts are from Megapoints. They work out at £1 each. To begin with i made my own out of aluminium section, but i found it too difficult to drill/cut it accurately enough and i got frustrated. Hence i just paid up and bought the megapoints ones. I just "hot glue" these to the baseboard. The only trouble with that is that there isnt enough time for adjustment before the glue goes off. I might try PVA and just fix it with tape which it sets. Or try and find a glue that give about 30secs adjustment time.....

Ian,

 

Have you tried screws? I use the aluminium channel method for mounting the servos. I tighten the rear screw such that friction keeps the channel from moving, then I rotate the channel about the screw to get it properly aligned with the hole in the baseboard. Then I screw in the front screw. If it's still wrong, it's not too hard to relocate it. I've done over 30 like this, and will soon be embarking on another 50!

 

Ian

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  • RMweb Gold
5 hours ago, ISW said:

Ian,

 

Have you tried screws? I use the aluminium channel method for mounting the servos. I tighten the rear screw such that friction keeps the channel from moving, then I rotate the channel about the screw to get it properly aligned with the hole in the baseboard. Then I screw in the front screw. If it's still wrong, it's not too hard to relocate it. I've done over 30 like this, and will soon be embarking on another 50!

 

Ian

Hi Ian, 80 servos... All on one layout???

I always find screws move, but the 'one at a time' approach like that sounds good. I'll try it next time. I have just started the next two turnouts so it won't be long!

Ian

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3 hours ago, ikcdab said:

Hi Ian, 80 servos... All on one layout???

Ian,

 

Yep, there is already over 30 servos on the Lower Level baseboards (storage sidings & junctions to/from the 2 ramps) and there is 42 turnouts on the Upper Level. However, when you add in the extra servos on the single / double slips, there are 53 servos on the Upper Level. I was fortunate to be able to buy all the servos at a reasonable price a while back.

 

Ian

 

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  • RMweb Gold
18 minutes ago, ISW said:

Ian,

 

Yep, there is already over 30 servos on the Lower Level baseboards (storage sidings & junctions to/from the 2 ramps) and there is 42 turnouts on the Upper Level. However, when you add in the extra servos on the single / double slips, there are 53 servos on the Upper Level. I was fortunate to be able to buy all the servos at a reasonable price a while back.

 

Ian

 

I've built 15 of the MERG servo4 units. What drivers are you using?

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1 minute ago, ikcdab said:

I've built 15 of the MERG servo4 units. What drivers are you using?

Ian,

 

I went with MegaPoints controller boards. On the Lower Level I have 2x 12-servo boards + 3x 4-servo boards and the Controller Board. For the Upper Level I'll need 5x 12-servo boards (I think) and, probably, another Controller Board. I'm thinking of keeping the 2 levels separate from a MegaPoints perspective.

 

I did consider the MERG option, but it just seemed a 'tad' too complicated for me.

 

How did you find the building process of the MERG servo4 boards? I ask as I have 4x Kit#57 (short circuit protection) boards to build.

 

Ian

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14 minutes ago, ISW said:

For the Upper Level I'll need 5x 12-servo boards (I think)

Ian,

 

Yep, it's 5x 12-servo boards. The drawing below shows the Upper Level layout, and the numbers in the corners of each baseboard represent the number of servos required on that baseboard. Thankfully, the MegaPoints system is nice and modular and so it's not as complicated as it could have been.

 

ul.jpg.c85d82a228d1c527cd4e5b988a37b119.jpg

 

Ian

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