Spanish Van - what is it?

[Neil]

While searching for something else I found this lovely image from the Spanish seaside town of Mataro in 1964. The tram I know about but can anyone tell me what make and model the van is?

 

Many thanks.

[PhilJ W]

Going by the radiator shape it could be a Citroen c. 1934. Opel light commercials were also popular in Spain during the 1930's.

[Mike Harvey]

Eligor make a 1934 Citroen van in 1/43 scale.

[Joseph_Pestell]

I don't think that is a Citroen. A friend had a Rosalie pick-up of that era (a barn find in that he had bought the barn to convert to a house) and it had a much more vertical radiator grille and large chevrons which I don't see trace of on the picture.

 

Might be worth looking at Dodge ("dothay") vehicles from that era. For some reason, it was a popular brand in Spain.

 

Edit: I have just been looking at some Rosalie pics on the internet and now think that PhilJW is probably right. Different from my friend's version which might be a bit earlier than the one in the pic.

Edited August 17, 2020 by Joseph_Pestell
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[PhilJ W]

It has several Citroen features, the bonnet side louvres on a raised panel and Michelin pressed steel wheels are the most distinctive. Enlarging the picture reveals more details such as the central spotlight between the headlights.

 

[Neil]

I'd agree that the Citroen is the most likely candidate but there are differences in the shape of the doors, rake of the windscreen and the sides of the wings which follow the arc of the wheel to give a more closed appearance than all the other photos of Citroens where the side sweeps back parallel with the top. Could it be a local coachbuilt example where all the body from the scuttle back is bespoke?

[alastairq]

26 minutes ago, Neil said:

I'd agree that the Citroen is the most likely candidate but there are differences in the shape of the doors, rake of the windscreen and the sides of the wings which follow the arc of the wheel to give a more closed appearance than all the other photos of Citroens where the side sweeps back parallel with the top. Could it be a local coachbuilt example where all the body from the scuttle back is bespoke?

 Also the bonnet side louvres?

Possible candidate might have been a FIAT 508 Balilla van?

{ALthough I think the radiator surround is to deep for one of those?]

Edited August 17, 2020 by alastairq

[BernardTPM]

That windscreen is unusally low in height too. More the sort of thing you'd expect on a coupe rather than a van.

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

The bumper gives it away as a Citroen.

 

Mike.

[PhilJ W]

The radiator looks early thirties but the body looks a bit later in style. It could be a passenger car re-bodied as a van. The downward angle of the bottom of the scuttle is a feature of the C-4. This is a Citroen C-4 of 1928.

 

An earlier style but it continued in production until replaced by the 'Traction' in 1934.

Edited August 17, 2020 by PhilJ W

[Guest Jack Benson]

Examples of E23 and E34 utility vehicles could still found in the service of the French Army reserve into the early 60s. I sent a picture of Norev’s next issue of 1:87 models to Neil quite recently but finding them in the UK is not easy although earlier issues of the Norev model occasionally pop up on eBay.fr
 

 

 Cheers and Stay Safe

 

 

[Enterprisingwestern]

14 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

The radiator looks early thirties but the body looks a bit later in style. It could be a passenger car re-bodied as a van. The downward angle of the bottom of the scuttle is a feature of the C-4. This is a Citroen C-4 of 1928.

 

An earlier style but it continued in production until replaced by the 'Traction' in 1934.

 

I think we have a winner!

The radiator and headlight arrangement does it for me.

 

Mike.

[PhilJ W]

The E23 and E34 were heavier vehicles, the C-4 was a car used as a basis for light commercials and continued as such until about 1940 when the factory was taken over by the Germans and forced to make military trucks. As an aside almost all of those trucks were sabotaged in such a subtle way that the Germans didn't realise it. The full mark on the engine dipstick was moved down a couple of centimetres. This resulted in there being insufficient oil in the sump to lubricate the engine with inevitable results.

[Neil]

The more I look the more I'm inclined to believe that it's a Frankenstein chop job.

 

Take a look at the C4 photo posted by Phil above and notice how the bonnet hinge line matches that of the bodyside beading now take a look at the cropped image of the Spanish van below and notice the mismatch. Also is it my imagination or does it have suicide doors like this Hispano Suiza van?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 17, 2020 by Neil

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

Could be an insurance cut and shut?!!

 

Mike.

[PhilJ W]

I think its the original body, note how the swage line at the waist continues across the scuttle, door and body side. As likely as not as was common in the 1930's the manufacturer sold a bare chassis to be bodied by an outside body builder so there would be variations in doors and other features. Its likely that it spent the first 10-15 years in France and was then exported to Spain.

Edited August 17, 2020 by PhilJ W

[PhilJ W]

5 hours ago, Neil said:

I'd agree that the Citroen is the most likely candidate but there are differences in the shape of the doors, rake of the windscreen and the sides of the wings which follow the arc of the wheel to give a more closed appearance than all the other photos of Citroens where the side sweeps back parallel with the top. Could it be a local coachbuilt example where all the body from the scuttle back is bespoke?

The body style suggests it is a later model than the car I illustrated. The car version ceased production c. 1934 but it continued as a light commercial until c. 1940. It could well be that the body was by an outside coachbuilder.