Recommend me a REALLY good RTR model...?

[97xx]

Hello all.

 

Got back into RM as a result of the lockdown and took the opportunity to resurrect a couple of 1970s K's models (97xx pannier you'll find on here somewhere), and also to overhaul my collection of HD and Wrenn locos.

 

As again reported here somewhere, two of the three RTR models from the 'new' period - and I mean the Hong Kong Mainline/Airfix/Lima era of the 1980s required anywhere from some to a massive amount of work to get them to run, at all in some cases! See Mainline Manor Zinc pest rebuild...

 

On the other hand, all of the HD and Wrenn locos needed a quick clean ad oil and they run silently and superbly. 

 

Now, I know that the HD and Wrenn and a very very long way from the fidelity of latest RTR offerings, BUT from what I read the mechanical quality of new stuff is anywhere from acceptable to truly terrible. Of course a forum will tend to have nore of the problems than the successes, although to be fair many of you report when you don't experience the problems with a particular model.

 

I'm really hankering to buy something bang up to date and absolutely lovely, but as an engineer 'lovely' means as well as looking great, I don't want to find it lurching and slipping its way along. And for £100-200 it ought not to.

 

I was eyeing the Hornby H class plus push-pull set, but have seen a lot of poor reports of loco running quality. So I then find myself looking at building one in brass or kit or a combination. But that's not helping me get back into RTR...

 

So, my question is "can you recommend a really good steam loco, early or late BR(S) or (W)?". 

 

I'll stand back...!

 

 

[spamcan61]

Hornby N15 or S15

[brossard]

I'll make this suggestion and then get back in my trench with my tin hat on.

 

If you are returning to the hobby after a break, have you considered 0 gauge?  Dapol have a fair few cracking RTR locos at the price point you indicate - 200.00 or so.  There's a Terrier, 57XX and most recently a 14XX.  They are superb runners and look great into the bargain.

 

I did 00 for 30 year or so and switching to 0 was the best thing I could do.  Not for everyone I know but... 

 

John

[Mick Bonwick]

Bachmann C Class or Hornby 700 Class (Black Motor).

Bachmann E4 or Hornby Q1.

 

All of these run beautifully. You might notice a bias from the suggestions!

[Steamport Southport]

No problems whatsoever with my H class. Sometimes you've got to realise that for every one person complaining on the internet there are probably 1000 people who haven't had any problems.

 

Don't forget the boxed sets flew off the shelves and they also sold something like 1500 limited editions of the preserved version recently through the Collectors Club. Hardly an unsuccessful model.

 

How about the Radial Tank? Many places have them on offer and some have them with the carriages for a reasonable price.

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/164485/hornby_r3398_lyme_regis_branch_line_train_pack_limited_edition/stockdetail.aspx

 

 

Jason

[Taigatrommel]

1 hour ago, brossard said:

I'll make this suggestion and then get back in my trench with my tin hat on.

 

If you are returning to the hobby after a break, have you considered 0 gauge?  Dapol have a fair few cracking RTR locos at the price point you indicate - 200.00 or so.  There's a Terrier, 57XX and most recently a 14XX.  They are superb runners and look great into the bargain.

 

I did 00 for 30 year or so and switching to 0 was the best thing I could do.  Not for everyone I know but... 

 

John

I have a Dapol 0 gauge 57xx and it's an incredibly smooth and quiet runner, matched only by my Bachmann 117s in 00.

Edited August 13, 2020 by Taigatrommel

[jcm@gwr]

2 hours ago, brossard said:

I'll make this suggestion and then get back in my trench with my tin hat on.

 

If you are returning to the hobby after a break, have you considered 0 gauge?  Dapol have a fair few cracking RTR locos at the price point you indicate - 200.00 or so.  There's a Terrier, 57XX and most recently a 14XX.  They are superb runners and look great into the bargain.

 

I did 00 for 30 year or so and switching to 0 was the best thing I could do.  Not for everyone I know but... 

 

John

 

Don't forget, Minerva also do panniers!

[brossard]

I didn't forget, in fact my friend has one, 57XX, and it too is superb.  Just wanted to keep things simple.

 

John

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

How about taking the RTR OO update in stages? The revolution begins' option. Bachmann's N class, one of the earliest of their 'Blue Riband' introductions from over 20 years ago.

[97xx]

All good suggestions. The O gauge one is interesting as I can immediately see the appeal of the scale and detail. But/and my aspiration is to have an 00 gauge layout as I'd value the ability to have significant runs. And of course to actually use my 'vintage' stock...!

 

I'll probably gravitate towards 3MT and below as most of what I have is essentially XP locos.

 

The Lyme Regis set does look cracking - plus a limitless opportunity to weather!

 

I'm still taken by the H Class push-pull set so maybe I should give that a go, and i do agree that forums will by necessity publicise the minority of problems - I suppose my experiences with the Mainline/Airfix stuff sensitised me to what felt like the "way it was all going"...!

 

As an aside, if the SR push-pull set was more of a limited edition, would I be unwise to weather? Or does this not matter (provided done well of course.)

 

[MPR]

My main modelling interest is in P4 - partly as I get more satisfaction from making things rather than buying them, but mostly to act as a brake on “ooh shiny!” moments.

It doesn’t always work. 

So in the spirit of your question, here are four locomotives that for me exemplify the last 20 years.

 

1) Bachmann 9F.  Just stunning at every level. Feels stone cold solid when removed from the box. Looks like a 9F, sits like a 9F. Runs almost silently, smoothly. Haulage capabilities are “sufficient” in the Rolls Royce sense.
 

2) Hornby 0-4-0st Peckett.

Every advance of the last couple of decades in the smallest possible package. Compact, beautifully finished (except the chimneys - which always seem to be slightly wonky as supplied - I’ve never seen this commented on!)

Will run round 7.5” radius curves (don’t ask). Would be the minimum credible loco if it wasn’t for...

 

3) Baldwin 4-6-0pt 009

All of the above, but even smaller. Clearly not as heavy, but even more delicately finished. Can be had with sound. Runs beautifully too.

 

4) Heljan 47.
The first modern diesel. It’s a bit too wide and there have been some with Mazak issues, but it has many other virtues. Buy a big controller, turn the knob to “11” and watch it suck up the amps. Builds momentum like an O gauge locomotive

 

 

[jonnyuk]

for modern stuff i love my Hornby class 56/60 in colas, stunning models and faultless runners. same could be said of the Dapol 68.

i second the S15, loved mine until it took a tumble of the table and onto the floor, now runs with a wobble so i leave it be. the lord nelson and merch navy, all great loco's.

 

for something smaller, a terrier or Heljan 3790 pannier (i think that's what it is), fitted with stay alives or an M7 again with stay alives. all great runners, lovely finish to them.

 

I have picked up a new Heljan 33 and that really impressed me, great runner, abit like the 47 mentioned above in it's running quality, love watch it running round my layout, it would need to be heritage if you wanted something modern era

[Legend]

Going back to the OP , he did iask for late BR (S) or (W).   I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Hornby Rebuilt Merchant Navies or West Country Class . Handsome looking locos , the start of Hornbys super detailed range but before things got Too detailed and started dropping off !  You may already have a Wrenn WC from what you were saying , but really the difference would be like chalk or cheese !  The Drummond 0-6-0 has been mentioned, seems to be quite reliable .  I think the Hornby Castle is worth a go , and slightly cheaper but a very good model to me is their Hall , perhaps not as super detailed as others, it came from the design clever period , but perfectly adaquate .   I have Bachmann 57xx, 64xx Panniers and 4575 Prairie , all are perfectly good runners  and bought just before Bachmanns prices rocketed , they are a bit more expensive now .  Not late BR but if you fancy something with a Wow factor what about one of the Marsh Atlantics ?

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

1 hour ago, 97xx said:

...I'm still taken by the H Class push-pull set so maybe I should give that a go, and i do agree that forums will by necessity publicise the minority of problems - I suppose my experiences with the Mainline/Airfix stuff sensitised me to what felt like the "way it was all going"...!

The 'forum' aspect. The input is uncontrolled and the signal to noise ratio very variable. But broadly the commentary on RTR OO locos falls into three groups:

Relatively little adverse comment;

Spatter of relatively minor defects and problems;

Consistent troubles relating to one or more aspects of the model.

 It's only the last that is of concern, and with these it is usually a matter of 'do I want it enough to troubleshoot it?'. These are simple mechanisms when all is said and done.

 

You will appreciate that the 0-4-4T arrangement doesn't work that well in model form, but a little DIY on bogie springing and some internal weight distribution is typically worthwhile. I have fiddled with a couple of the Hornby M7s and they can be got to start and run at a realistic slow speed with up to 12 current coaches on level track. Much of the adhesion deserts it the moment there is a gradient of course...

[The Johnster]

By and large current RTR is brilliant both in detail and running.  Not perfect, but probably not far off what is reasonable to demand of volume produced models made in production runs.  If what you are used to is 80 or previous RTR, or kit builds, or all but the highest end bespoke scratch building, any recently retooled RTR will run rings around it, and while prices have doubled in 2 years, they’re still pretty cheap (if you don’t think so, check out some European HO RTR, then have a look at the American stuff!). 
 

BUT...

 

There is a trade off; detail, daylight beneath boilers and through frames, and the need to allow space for DCC chips, speakers, etc., means that the locos’ insides are less accessible, more delicate, and greater care must be taken in dismantling them and re-assembling them.  There is in one sense no need to dismantle modern RTR locos, as the manufacturers (they aren’t really manufacturers, they design the models and commission them from Chinese contractors) use can motors and there are ‘no user serviceable parts inside’.  A motor is replaced when the brushes wear out; it’s cheaper than stocking spare carbon brushes.  The idea from HD/Triang days that the owner should be able to deal with anything that had gone wrong with his loco by obtaining spare parts and fitting them himself is of those days and as the snows of yesteryear.  If the loco doesn’t work, you send it back and get it replaced, free if it’s in warranty but otherwise you buy a new one. 
 

But some of us want to get in there for deep cleaning, to replace chips and speakers because we are unsatisfied with the ones fitted, or at least need to get the body off to put crew in the cab.  There is also the matter of detailing, painting, weathering, what some of us describe as modelling, which has to be done again on the new loco...

 

I am going to suggest the Bachmann 56xx as a model which is both realistic, has superb running qualities, not expensive, and is a delight in general.  It is not perfect; it has the same horrible plastic coal as all RTR steam outline models do, and what should be a radial truck is a crudely sprung floating axle.  I have 3 of them and all are excellent.  Mechanical quality is superb, but a traditional attitude might question the use of nylon spur gears, especially as these were a problem in the 80s and 90s.  In practice they work faultlessly. 

[97xx]

Now the 56xx feels like an interesting one.

 

Agree fully re vagaries of 0-4-4 - from a modelling perspective I appreciate that the overhang is an issue - I've just been rebalancing a scratch built 2-4-2 I made 40 years ago and the large overhangs on that pose all sorts of issues, although at least the four-coupled chassis is 'in the middle'.

 

Edited August 14, 2020 by 97xx

[Art Dent]

Here's my Dapol 57xx - excellently weathered by David Magill.

 

The pictures are his and are used with his kind permission.

 

Figures are ModelU and painted by Claudia Everett.

 

Art

 

 

[97xx]

Beautifully done at every level. Love the oil around the brake rigging pivots...

[Philou]

Is that 4mm? Crikey!!

 

Philip

[Mick Bonwick]

On 14/08/2020 at 09:16, 97xx said:

As an aside, if the SR push-pull set was more of a limited edition, would I be unwise to weather? Or does this not matter (provided done well of course.)

 

 

I think it really depends upon weather (!) you have bought it to use or bought it to sell again at a later date. If the former it doesn't matter at all, if the former, don't touch it. Weathering is a very personal topic, akin to the era and area you choose to model. Whatever your choice there will be people who don't agree.

 

If you weather something and then decide to sell it, you will need to be lucky and find at least two people at the same time who want to buy that item weathered. The same applies to an unweathered item, of course.

 

Weathering is in fashion at the moment but that doesn't mean it will still be in fashion if and when you want to sell.

Edited August 15, 2020 by Mick Bonwick
Spelling!

[The White Rabbit]

On 14/08/2020 at 09:16, 97xx said:

As an aside, if the SR push-pull set was more of a limited edition, would I be unwise to weather? Or does this not matter (provided done well of course.)

 

 

If you want to make money out of model railway limited editions, then don't use them, don't even unbox them. Oh, and be [very] lucky, hope you've picked one which will be sought after in the future...  

 

Personally I prefer my stock lightly weathered and if I was after a limited edition and saw one you'd weathered well, that would encourage me to bid/buy - but other people think differently and the received wisdom is don't adapt/alter/repaint. 

 

*

 

Back to your OP, I like the Bachmann 8750 and 57xx panniers and 45xx small prairie - a lot. The 2MT and 4MT tanks are nice too. Southern, I like the Hornby Adams radial tank (Lyme branch). There's not much in it but I think the Bachmann panniers are best. If I was spending your money and was limited to one loco, I'd almost certainly get one of them. 

[Guest WM183]

Bachmann's class 3 BR standard tank is a great model that runs wonderfully. The 56xx and 57xx tanks are both also great runners. 

[robmcg]

Bachmann 9F weathered. 

 

Hornby Princess.

 

Solved. 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

On ‎13‎/‎08‎/‎2020 at 19:17, 97xx said:

...I'm really hankering to buy something bang up to date and absolutely lovely, but as an engineer 'lovely' means as well as looking great, I don't want to find it lurching and slipping its way along. And for £100-200 it ought not to...

Now we are ignoring the regional requirement, I nominate Hornby's B12/3. (Members of the class worked over Southern and Western lines during WWII, so perhaps it can have a pass?)

 

Captures the appearance of a modernised pre-group design extremely well, both overall and in attention to detail; runs and pulls beautifully, the largely cast loco body providing sufficient weight for its class 4 rating.

[Phatbob]

On 13/08/2020 at 19:17, 97xx said:

"can you recommend a really good steam loco, early or late BR(S) or (W)?".

 

I've had a think about this question and based on my experience of all sorts of locos on many different layouts at exhibitions, I'd recommend the Bachmann Std 3 tank.
HTH.