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Why is their no budget range for the younger modeller to get into this hobby?


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I think I'm going into the Lions den with this one buts it is a genuine question and manufacturers need to sit down and think about how to get younger generations into this hobby or it go will into histories dustbin has been pastime.

 

Yes I am aware of Hornby's ' budget range of less detailed models but from what I've seen Bachmann and others don't cater for the younger modeller who's parents don't have hundreds to spend  on  train sets and models. I think it is a shame, its fun they will learn skills that can be used in other areas in life it gets father and son or daughter closer together as they both learn the history of our railways. My first train set was given to me by my late grandad it was a three rail Hornby Dublo brought for my father in 1961 my grandad was having a clear out in the loft when he found it . We had it on two boards nothing fancy no buildings as such only a metal tunnel he had made at the factory he worked at played with it for hours together I still have it still works never will sell it too many happy memories more so now hes not around anymore. From what I have seen now theirs no hope for younger modeller the price of locos is simply to high without the young their be no future for this hobby no customers to keep manufacturers going why is not been addressed? 

 

I have no issue with people wanting super detailed layouts or models thats fine but can we remember not everyone wants that or have the means either their is a great YouTube channel called' Budget Model Railways '  for me its been a godsend sadly some people in their comments section get quite nasty clearly they missed the point its about having fun and enjoying your layout . 

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Have a look at the Marklin My World range . Both my Grandsons think it is great

https://www.maerklin.de/en/products/my-world/

Remote control with sounds and lights. What more could the little ones ask for and now that Lego has come off patent all sorts of Marklin/Lego integrated parts for even more play value.

Maurice

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35 minutes ago, Claycrossjunction said:

I think I'm going into the Lions den with this one buts it is a genuine question and manufacturers need to sit down and think about how to get younger generations into this hobby or it go will into histories dustbin has been pastime.

 

Yes I am aware of Hornby's ' budget range of less detailed models but from what I've seen Bachmann and others don't cater for the younger modeller who's parents don't have hundreds to spend  on  train sets and models. I think it is a shame, its fun they will learn skills that can be used in other areas in life it gets father and son or daughter closer together as they both learn the history of our railways. My first train set was given to me by my late grandad it was a three rail Hornby Dublo brought for my father in 1961 my grandad was having a clear out in the loft when he found it . We had it on two boards nothing fancy no buildings as such only a metal tunnel he had made at the factory he worked at played with it for hours together I still have it still works never will sell it too many happy memories more so now hes not around anymore. From what I have seen now theirs no hope for younger modeller the price of locos is simply to high without the young their be no future for this hobby no customers to keep manufacturers going why is not been addressed? 

 

I have no issue with people wanting super detailed layouts or models thats fine but can we remember not everyone wants that or have the means either their is a great YouTube channel called' Budget Model Railways '  for me its been a godsend sadly some people in their comments section get quite nasty clearly they missed the point its about having fun and enjoying your layout . 

 

There never was a 'budget range' of model railways - try Googling some old Hornby Dublo and Tri-ang price lists and converting the prices to today's currency.

 

It was, and still is, a case of cutting your clothing to suit your cloth and buying secondhand - something infinitely easier since the advent of the internet and Ebay.

 

John Isherwood.

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11 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

There never was a 'budget range' of model railways - try Googling some old Hornby Dublo and Tri-ang price lists and converting the prices to today's currency.

 

It was, and still is, a case of cutting your clothing to suit your cloth and buying secondhand - something infinitely easier since the advent of the internet and Ebay.

 

John Isherwood.

Hi,

 

Easier but more more expensive?.

 

Regards

 

Nick

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1 hour ago, Claycrossjunction said:

My first train set was given to me by my late grandad it was a three rail Hornby Dublo brought for my father in 1961 my grandad was having a clear out in the loft when he found it . We had it on two boards nothing fancy no buildings as such only a metal tunnel he had made at the factory he worked at played with it for hours together I still have it still works never will sell it too many happy memories more so now hes not around anymore.

In other words, how you got into the hobby as a youngster was via a second-hand very basic setup using models from the previous generation, which were "playable with".  That's exactly the same today.

 

Model railways have *never* been a cheap hobby.  Triang was introduced as a lower-cost rival to the very middle-class Dublo, but was still not a pocket money range.  Model railways for youngsters in the perceived "golden age" of the fifties and sixties still relied on Xmas and birthday presents from well-disposed adults. 

 

You can still cut costs by smart second-hand purchasing which *is*, as John Isherwood says, much easier now via the internet (and yes, still cheaper if you ignore the froth on eBay over a few items which happen to be the current fad.)  And you can build things for yourself - Superquick buildings, Dapol plastic kits etc.

 

As an early teenager I only ever had two 00 locos - both birthday presents.  I then switched to N, and only ever had two N locos - a Lima 4F and a Minitrix 2-6-2T.  That, plus Peco track on bare chipboard and secondhand wagons, with a few plastic buildings, was it until I returned to the hobby in my late thirties.

 

Anyway, I don't think I agree with the basic premise of your question that model railways will die out if we don't think of the children.  Model railways have evolved into a largely adult hobby as a result of older people taking it up when they have the disposable income and/or time (you can trade one for the other to a limited extent) for it.  What I think really lies behind your question is "how do we ensure that railways and model railways as a hobby interest are on younger peoples' radar; and how do we keep them engaged with the hobby - albeit probably at arms length - until they have the time, income and inclination to get more actively involved?"   That means heritage railways, railway museums, and model railway clubs/exhibitions doing outreach activities which involve youngsters and families, and leaving them with good positive feelings about the hobby.

 

One of my favourite C J Freezer quotes from the old Railway Modeller was along the lines that he often had to remind younger modellers that the the best preparation they could make for building an extensive model railway layout was time spent getting decent exam results to ensure a decent career. 

 

Seen from the perspective of the 2020s, perhaps a somewhat old-fashioned way of putting it, but apposite on today's "interesting" A level results day...

 

Richard T 

 

 

 

 

Edited by RichardT
Correcting grammatical gibberish and spelling.
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34 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

There never was a 'budget range' of model railways - try Googling some old Hornby Dublo and Tri-ang price lists and converting the prices to today's currency.

 

It was, and still is, a case of cutting your clothing to suit your cloth and buying secondhand - something infinitely easier since the advent of the internet and Ebay.

 

John Isherwood.

 

I am aware of Hornby Dublo history I have a fine book on the subject . The question is why can't present day manufacturers do an budget range the market it is their for taking model railways are for all ages not the wealthy few who will be gone soon the young are their future no customers no business. Why should the young have to buy second hand have you seen some of eBays crazy prices they are nearly as much has new. 

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I’m a bit mystified by your post, Bachmann do Underground Ernie and are about to reintroduce Thomas, Hornby do Harry Potter and the Hornby Junior Range with a Paddington train. There is also the Hornby Railroad Range. Not forgetting Lego Trains. I’m sure they are all available second hand if you are on a budget. 

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4 minutes ago, RichardT said:

In other words, how you got into the hobby as a youngster was via a second-hand very basic setup using models from the previous generation, which were "playable with".  That's exactly the same today.

 

Model railways have *never* been a cheap hobby.  Triang was introduced as a lower-cost rival to the very middle-class Dublo, but was still not a pocket money range.  Model railways for youngsters in the perceived "golden age" of the fifties and sixties still relied on Xmas and birthday presents from well-disposed adults. 

 

You can still cut costs by smart second-hand purchasing which *is*, as John Isherwood says, much easier now via the internet (and yes, still cheaper if you ignore the froth on eBay over a few items which happen to be the current fad.)  And you can build things for yourself - Superquick buildings, Dapol plastic kits etc.

 

As an early teenager I only ever had two 00 locos - both birthday presents.  I then switched to N, and only ever had two N locos - a Lima 4F and a Minitrix 2-6-2T.  That, plus Peco track on bare chipboard and secondhand wagons, with a few plastic buildings, was it until I returned to the hobby in my late thirties.

 

Anyway, I don't think I agree with the basic premise of your question.  Model railways as an adult hobby is the result of adults taking it up when they have the disposable income and/or time (you can trade one for the other to a limited extent) for an involving hobby.  What I think really lies behind your question is "how do we ensure that railways and model railways as a hobby interest are on younger peoples' radar; and how do we keep them engaged with the hobby - albeit probably at arms length - until they have the time, income and inclination to get more actively involved?" 

 

One of my favourite C J Freezer quotes from the old Railway Modeller was along the lines that he often had to remind younger modellers that the the best preparation they could make for building an extensive model railway layout was time spent getting decent exam results to ensure a decent career. 

 

Seen from the perspective of the 2020s, perhaps a somewhat old-fashioned way of putting it, but apposite on today's "interesting" A level results day...

 

Richard T 

 

 

 

I doubt the high prices are going to last given how the economy is going no will be able to afford it. It was not so long ago that Hornby and now Bachmann are struggling.

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4 minutes ago, RichardT said:

That means heritage railways, railway museums, and model railway clubs/exhibitions doing outreach activities which involve youngsters and families, and leaving them with good positive feelings about the hobby.

And, I forgot to add, when heritage railways, museums etc. DO do these activities, you only have to count to ten before the complaints about "dumbing down"; "distorting railway history" etc etc start pouring out from "real" railway enthusiasts.

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If there was money to be made from such a starter range, it would be there and selling. There isn't. Youngsters today have other attractions, pastimes, interests. Phones, tablets, games consoles are the big sellers to young people. Young teens I know of have been hanging out online-gaming until the small hours during lockdown. Toy trains do not feature on their radar.

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My first loco purchases in the late 80s/early 90s were around the £15 mark- that's over £30 in current money.  One was a new Hornby 0-4-0, the other a secondhand Lima 73.  Now, the 0-4-0 was 101 in Industrial guise (Tolgus tin mines?), the 73 had visible damage.  This year, the RRP of an Industrial liveried 101 is £34.99, while Lima 73s without visible damage attract anything from £20 to £80 on ebay.  My feeling is that we're in the same ball park price wise.  An LMS BTK (IIRC) cost me over a tenner and even then I thought it was cr*p- currently a Railroad mk1 runs to £22, adjusted for inflation that's almost spot on a tenner in 1990 and the Railroad mk1 isn't bad.  There's still rubbish at that price point too though...

With childhood funds (negligible pocket money and a bit at Christmas and birthday, conveniently 6 months apart for me) I remember having to allocate funds carefully.  I wanted a Lima 156, I got a Hornby 142....

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13 minutes ago, Silly Moo said:

I’m a bit mystified by your post, Bachmann do Underground Ernie and are about to reintroduce Thomas, Hornby do Harry Potter and the Hornby Junior Range with a Paddington train. There is also the Hornby Railroad Range. Not forgetting Lego Trains. I’m sure they are all available second hand if you are on a budget. 

The problems  with second hand is as new models are going into higher price range the second hand have followed price wise sometimes you have new and second hand at the same price. Hornby budget has increased in price their is an opening in the market for someone else. A while back an Hong Kong manufacturer was selling diesels for £35 with lights and all and good detailing. 

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11 minutes ago, Claycrossjunction said:

The question is why can't present day manufacturers do an budget range

Probably because even reruns of old Triang and Wrenn models would still cost a lot if sold at a profit.

 

What would you consider "budget range" pricing? £30 for a loco?

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3 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

If there was money to be made from such a starter range, it would be there and selling. There isn't. Youngsters today have other attractions, pastimes, interests. Phones, tablets, games consoles are the big sellers to young people. Young teens I know of have been hanging out online-gaming until the small hours during lockdown. Toy trains do not feature on their radar

Sorry I'm not convinced on that, Sams Trains on YouTube has a large following mostly children and young adults why do reviews on models trains if their is no interest its simply down to price.

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OLDDUDDERS Said If there was money to be made from such a starter range, it would be there and selling.

I repeat there is and it sells well and it is made by Marklin. It is called My World. That is if it is the very young that  CLAYCROSSJUNCTION was referring to.

regards

Maurice

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5 minutes ago, Claycrossjunction said:

A while back an Hong Kong manufacturer was selling diesels for £35 with lights and all and good detailing. 

 

...and why are they not still selling at that price?  Ultimately a manufacturer can't market a product at the price that you desire.  It costs money to produce models and they need to charge more than that to make a profit otherwise they go out of business.  Cheap toy trains for small children isn't a profitable market.

 

As @Oldddudders says above, it's not the price that puts children off.  It doesn't matter how cheap model railways are, my son wouldn't be interested - he'd much rather have another games console and they are every bit as expensive as model railways.  When I was his age, I got my first electric train set and birthdays and Christmases provided the opportunity to get another coach or wagon.  I'd have a very disappointed son if a model railway locomotive was his next birthday present.

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3 minutes ago, Zomboid said:

Probably because even reruns of old Triang and Wrenn models would still cost a lot if sold at a profit.

 

What would you consider "budget range" pricing? £30 for a loco?

Look at this way forget highly detailed models lets go back to basics lets face it the model got to take some hammering when kids are involved . Hornby and Bachmann and others have their models made in China it would not be a problem for Chinese to start making and sell them overseas undercutting others the guy in Hong Kong would not be wasting his time he saw an opening in the market.

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2 minutes ago, Dungrange said:

 

...and why are they not still selling at that price?  Ultimately a manufacturer can't market a product at the price that you desire.  It costs money to produce models and they need to charge more than that to make a profit otherwise they go out of business.  Cheap toy trains for small children isn't a profitable market.

 

As @Oldddudders says above, it's not the price that puts children off.  It doesn't matter how cheap model railways are, my son wouldn't be interested - he'd much rather have another games console and they are every bit as expensive as model railways.  When I was his age, I got my first electric train set and birthdays and Christmases provided the opportunity to get another coach or wagon.  I'd have a very disappointed son if a model railway locomotive was his next birthday present.

The models were on eBay and were sold out in no time their is a demand the Chinese see it. 

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Erm ASDA and Tesco sell Hornby train sets for about £16. The ones with a 0-4-0 tank and a few wagons or coaches.

 

Wait just before Christmas but be quick. 

 

They're normally about £40 other times of the year. But do get reduced. Same goes for the Scalextric sets.

 

Argos have got the Paddington Junior sets for £35. That's extremely cheap for a kids toy, coming from somebody who had to spend a small fortune on Peppa Pig stuff that hardly ever got played with. Seriously if you think model railways are expensive look at toys...

 

https://www.argos.co.uk/product/7683781?clickSR=slp:term:Hornby:7:9:1

 

 

 

Jason

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29 minutes ago, Claycrossjunction said:

The models were on eBay and were sold out in no time their is a demand the Chinese see it. 

 

Whether there is demand or not is in many ways irrelevant.  What matters is whether cheap models can be produced profitably: that is there needs to be a big enough difference between the cost of production and the selling price for something to be produced.  If there is not enough profit or something else can be produced with a greater profit margin, then all manufacturers will look elsewhere.

 

The other thing to consider is reliability and reputation.  Were the cheap models that you refer to reliable and did the manufacturer provide good after sales service?  If the models 'were sold out in no time', were they restocked?  If they weren't restocked, then that means that they weren't profitable - they were simply dumped on the market at a low enough price to get rid of them.  That isn't evidence of a market for a product.

 

If our mainstream manufacturers produce cheap crap that breaks after a few weeks or months then it would tend to tarnish their brand.  They know that.  Hornby already produce electric train sets that can be had for under £50, which is relatively cheap compared to most toys (eg https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hornby-R1248-Santas-Express-Various/dp/B07N8BSFPS/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Hornby-R1248-Santas-Express-Various&qid=1597356575&sr=8-1), so I'm not sure what need there is for a cheaper range.

 

If a child wants a train set, there are plenty of cheap toys about such as the example above for less than £10.  If the child wants to be a discerning modeller, then they obviously need to pay more as has always been the case.  However, if you think there is a gap in the market for someone to make millions, why don't you start producing cheap train sets?

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I wouldn't be surprised if there was more choice than there ever had been - even for younger people, and at cheaper prices.such things are never going to be £2.50.......

 

I had to save up for more than six months for a small loco fifty years ago.

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1 hour ago, Dungrange said:

 

As @Oldddudders says above, it's not the price that puts children off.  It doesn't matter how cheap model railways are, my son wouldn't be interested - he'd much rather have another games console and they are every bit as expensive as model railways.  When I was his age, I got my first electric train set and birthdays and Christmases provided the opportunity to get another coach or wagon.  I'd have a very disappointed son if a model railway locomotive was his next birthday present.

 

Very true - which is why many toy trains are actually marketed at a pre-school audience.

 

It was one of the things which made Hornbys Thomas the Tank Engine rage a bit odd - over the years the demographic of the Thomas market has got increasingly younger - well below that age that most can cope with fiddly track with sharp fishplates that won't hold up to being stepped on etc.

 

The Markin 'My World' may well sell well - but lets be honest its basically the same as 'Tomy' train range and a long way from a true model railway as it were

 

Lego (and to an extent Plymobil) used to have an extensive suite of trains (including accessories like motorised points and working signals) in their armoury, however both have long ditched this comprehensive range in favour of more basic 'train sets' with little or no ways of expanding them - both citing the fact that train specific items don't sell as well as the ubiquitous fire, police, etc or 'themed' (i.e. movie tie in) sets do.

 

The way I see it is you are NOT going to be able to maintain interest in conventional model railways for most kids as they grow up regardless of however many basic 'starter' items you provide. Model railways are simply not socially 'cool' growing up and they don't give instant gratification. Exposure to them by friends or family may help keep the interest alive in the background, but for the vast majority railway modelling is not going to be a continuing interest for all but a small minority however much of a 'starter range' is available. Ultimately life has moved on from the 1950s and things like games consoles are now the must haves for older children / teenagers thanks to the instant gratification they facilitate while at the same time being easy to store, set up, etc.

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