Why is their no budget range for the younger modeller to get into this hobby?

[AY Mod]

4 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

I’m always unsure whether it’s appropriate for me to speculatively send in an article to magazines,

 

The best thing to do is to drop the magazine an email with a brief overview of the scope of your layout/article and a few (good) sample images and ask if they're interested (ideally with a timeframe for when you'd like to hear back by). If it's good/different/interesting and fits with what they're looking for you'll hear back with some guidelines. Put it to the test and drop me a PM if you like.

[009 micro modeller]

Just now, AY Mod said:

Put it to the test and drop me a PM if you like.

 

I might write something at some point, trying to find the time at the moment.

[Paddy]

On 24/08/2020 at 07:31, 'CHARD said:

 

I wonder how they could or would go about acquiring this data?  Even their Collector Club is a self-selecting and unrepresentative cross-section of the demographic.  

 

I would expect that buyers' behaviour judged on past model releases - filtered through retailer experience (sticky models and deep discounts etc) - would be the most effective way of surveying the market.

Yep, such data is readily available from various companies but it is not cheap.  Whether Hornby would be willing/able to pay the sums involved would be debatable.  Also, it is not a one off cost as the data needs to be refreshed/cleaned on a regular basis.  This is something technology companies pay for quite frequently but they have the resources to do so.

 

Kind regards

 

Paddy

 

[Phil Parker]

40 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

I’m always unsure whether it’s appropriate for me to speculatively send in an article to magazines, or whether they ask for good modellers to write them. I have done in the past for 009 News, but that is slightly different as it’s a society magazine for members to share their modelling and writers are (understandably and correctly IMHO) not paid.

 

This is how most articles arrive - a quick e-mail with a couple of photos to ask if we are interested. We do ask people, but can't know everyone. Don't expect to get rich, but there's something about seeing your name in print that is very pleasing and a few quid covers the copies you then have to buy for all the family who want to bask in your reflected glory.

[Paddy]

23 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Different market. Magazine reviews take hours of research in an effort to tell you how closely the model represents the prototype. None of the YouTube unboxing reviews I've seen have bothered with anything like this - it's all about the model looking nice. One thing you do get in a magazine review is everything in focus though!

 

Horse for courses. It's perfectly possible what works for you doesn't work for others. I'm also bound to tell you that many of the reviews in the digital edition of BRM come with running videos though.

Hi Phil,

 

Just for balance, when Everard Junction does a model review on YouTube, he includes lots of prototype detail.  Not all unboxing videos are equal.  In the main though, the magazines do a great job on our behalf.

 

Kind regards

 

Paddy

 

 

 

[Rockalaucher101]

18 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Clean track is irrelevant. What about fluff, dust, uneven track, etc. ? The Heljan O2 for example is a near £200 model. Certainly not one for messing about with on a carpet.

 

Definitely invalidated any warranty on the items he uses.  

 

 

 

Jason

I think the warrant on his O2 went out when he ran it through a swimming pool...

[Chrisr40]

Infantile of me I know but I do giggle when the you tube subtitles come up on his videos (which are well made) and it says Sam Strains

[Rockalaucher101]

Just now, Chrisr40 said:

Infantile of me I know but I do giggle when the you tube subtitles come up on his videos (which are well made) and it says Sam Strains

Haven't seen that, now I want to check for myself

[Rockalaucher101]

18 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

 

I reviewed it when it came out and the answer is - sort of.

 

Plain track is fine, but it doesn't like points, the B2B's are too tight. I replaced some of the wheels with Romfords which solves, the problem but isn't likely to be something anyone else does.

They missed a trick with that.

If lets say it was bought by a parent for their child, who has their own layout, they could run their battery op train on dads layout which might encourage them to branch out when they get older.

Is it a case that the back to backs are totally different or are the flanges too thick?

[kevinlms]

1 hour ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

I think that writing an article for a railway modelling magazine is quite difficult. So many have written before about layout building. How do you write an article that can present it in some way that is entertaining and innovative? Some have the gift. I recall David Jenkinson being one of them but then he was a professional educator.

 

I was amazed that RM recently won an award. The old-fashioned design of RM (not changed in fifty years if you ignore colour printing) detracts from the pleasure of reading the articles.

If you do basically the same thing for 50 years (Peco have actually owned RM since 1951, I believe) and are still the largest selling model railway magazine, then they must be doing something right!

If the layout (sorry!) design was seriously flawed, then a competitor would have long ago, knocked it off the perch.

I think that CJF had a lot to do with that, by getting some people to write about their layouts and importantly continued the updates, for several decades and so became household names in the world of British model trains. Indeed some wrote in the 50 year of Peco edition, that some readers knew more about their layout than they did!

 

 

RM has been doing something differently, it is supporting the TV show Great Model Railway Challenge* and has several pages of content in recent issues. That is something quite different to what has happened before.

 

* I haven't seen any of it, because it hasn't made it to Australian TV, to my knowledge. I do read the articles, but doesn't really interest me. But I can see why others do.

[Joseph_Pestell]

I did not suggest that RM is "not doing anything right". But that is not to say that they could not do better.

 

They start with a huge advantage over any new entrant to the model railway magazine market. So no surprise that they are still No 1 for circulation figures.

[DK123GWR]

24 minutes ago, Chrisr40 said:

Infantile of me I know but I do giggle when the you tube subtitles come up on his videos (which are well made) and it says Sam Strains

I've seen much worse...

Watch the first 15 seconds with subtitles on.

 

On the subject of Sam's Trains, I think that he deserves a lot of credit for building a successful channel that does something a little different to most of the media in the hobby. His layout is clearly a 'trainset' rather than a model of a particular location and while others may focus on modelling techniques and other useful skills (for me Everard Junction would be an example of somebody who does this excellently) Sam's Trains captures the joy of running trains incredibly well. That joy of watching the trains was what drew me into modelling in the first place (although I was never a big internet user when I was younger and have only started watching youtube videos over the past couple of years), and I am now preparing to explore beyond bare track on a bit of wood. I can't help but think that Sam's Trains is able to spread this feeling to people who (unlike me) did not discover it after being given their parent or grandparent's old trains to play with and that some of them will be drawn into the hobby following a similar path to me.

['CHARD]

3 minutes ago, DK123GWR said:

I've seen much worse...

Watch the first 15 seconds with subtitles on.

 

 

Ah yes the latest youth fashion or so the media would have us believe that punctuation actually offends the sensibilities of a certain section of society for whom the medium of text snapchat and social media in general now defines their written communication and as a result they perceive use of commas full stops and other basic grammatical conventions as a form of microaggression and need to take refuge in a safe space it would appear that even capitalization is abandoned in most cases and elsewhere individual lttrs r omited bcz ty r rgrdd as xtranus spcly 4 sum rsn the vwls dat gt spcly ruf tretmnt 1 wndrs sumtmz wer dis guna end 

[DK123GWR]

18 minutes ago, 'CHARD said:

 

Ah yes the latest youth fashion or so the media would have us believe that punctuation actually offends the sensibilities of a certain section of society for whom the medium of text snapchat and social media in general now defines their written communication and as a result they perceive use of commas full stops and other basic grammatical conventions as a form of microaggression and need to take refuge in a safe space it would appear that even capitalization is abandoned in most cases and elsewhere individual lttrs r omited bcz ty r rgrdd as xtranus spcly 4 sum rsn the vwls dat gt spcly ruf tretmnt 1 wndrs sumtmz wer dis guna end 

I was just thinking about the rather interesting transcription of 'another beautiful Hattons tank engine'.

[Rockalaucher101]

1 hour ago, DK123GWR said:

I've seen much worse...

Watch the first 15 seconds with subtitles on.

Oh my I wasn't expecting that

Edited August 25, 2020 by Rockalaucher101

[Rockalaucher101]

51 minutes ago, 'CHARD said:

 

Ah yes the latest youth fashion or so the media would have us believe that punctuation actually offends the sensibilities of a certain section of society for whom the medium of text snapchat and social media in general now defines their written communication and as a result they perceive use of commas full stops and other basic grammatical conventions as a form of microaggression and need to take refuge in a safe space it would appear that even capitalization is abandoned in most cases and elsewhere individual lttrs r omited bcz ty r rgrdd as xtranus spcly 4 sum rsn the vwls dat gt spcly ruf tretmnt 1 wndrs sumtmz wer dis guna end 

My god that was hard to read in one go.

 

Try reading that in one go without stopping for breath and you'll go blue in the face... Is it bad though that I mistook the part at the bottom for welsh at first?

[PatB]

I vastly prefer RM's general article format of informative text, with photos and drawings to illustrate salient points, to the "lots of pictures with randomly scattered captions" look of some of the competition. 

[kevinlms]

9 minutes ago, PatB said:

I vastly prefer RM's general article format of informative text, with photos and drawings to illustrate salient points, to the "lots of pictures with randomly scattered captions" look of some of the competition. 

Also you KNOW the ads are at the front and rear sections and not between each article/feature.

 

Actually not 100% true, as in the late 50s/early 60s, RM did have ads scattered through the editorial pages.

Edited August 25, 2020 by kevinlms
Correction

[Rockalaucher101]

10 minutes ago, PatB said:

I vastly prefer RM's general article format of informative text, with photos and drawings to illustrate salient points, to the "lots of pictures with randomly scattered captions" look of some of the competition. 

I'm subscribed to three major magazines and  I have to agree with you. The layout of Railway Modeller is very well set up although others are still pretty good.

[Firecracker]

Right, I’m probably going to upset someone here, but such is life.  The consensus on this thread seems to be that to get new entrants to the hobby, the internet is key.  So why do some traders treat the internet as a fad that’s not going to last? From my prowling recently (and I’m not going to mention names).  First up, a major manufacture, whose website doesn’t format correctly on my  ipad (might just be my pad, it is knocking on a bit) but also doesn’t list their full range, only featured products.  

 

Then, I started googling for some xxxx’s.  First website tells me about some motors instead, then tells me if I want to use PayPal, I’ve got to add 10% to my bill (I’m 40-ish.  I genuinely can’t remember when I last wrote a cheque).  Their products are apparently superb, but they can’t show me any photos.  

 

Hang on, where’s that back button on my browser...

 

Number two, gives me a long rant about they’re too busy to read emails, so any queries, phone.  Nope.  I’ve spent too long playing phone chess in my life.  But they have managed to photo some of their stock.

 

Back to results please...

 

Take three.  Looks a bit clunky, but there’s photos.  They take PayPal.  They apparently updated their website this month.  

 

One guess which one got my £20 and also turned out to read, send emails and despatch the goods in a day. 

 

Its not that hard folks.

 

Owain

 

[Steamport Southport]

1 hour ago, Firecracker said:

Right, I’m probably going to upset someone here, but such is life.  The consensus on this thread seems to be that to get new entrants to the hobby, the internet is key.  So why do some traders treat the internet as a fad that’s not going to last? From my prowling recently (and I’m not going to mention names).  First up, a major manufacture, whose website doesn’t format correctly on my  ipad (might just be my pad, it is knocking on a bit) but also doesn’t list their full range, only featured products.  

 

Then, I started googling for some xxxx’s.  First website tells me about some motors instead, then tells me if I want to use PayPal, I’ve got to add 10% to my bill (I’m 40-ish.  I genuinely can’t remember when I last wrote a cheque).  Their products are apparently superb, but they can’t show me any photos.  

 

Hang on, where’s that back button on my browser...

 

Number two, gives me a long rant about they’re too busy to read emails, so any queries, phone.  Nope.  I’ve spent too long playing phone chess in my life.  But they have managed to photo some of their stock.

 

Back to results please...

 

Take three.  Looks a bit clunky, but there’s photos.  They take PayPal.  They apparently updated their website this month.  

 

One guess which one got my £20 and also turned out to read, send emails and despatch the goods in a day. 

 

Its not that hard folks.

 

Owain

 

 

Nope. Not from me it's not. 

 

But if you are talking about cheques and the like then you aren't talking about items which are being sold to beginners, you are talking about items which are by after market suppliers and for kit builders. Aimed at people who are experts not beginners.

 

Most beginners are going to be shopping in places like Argos. Hobbycraft and places like Hattons, Kernow, Rails at a push, not looking at what South Eastern Finecast. 247 Developments, Dart Castings and others are selling.

 

 

 

 

Jason

[Firecracker]

49 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Nope. Not from me it's not. 

Fair enough.  Agree to disagree again there.

49 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

But if you are talking about cheques and the like then you aren't talking about items which are being sold to beginners, you are talking about items which are by after market suppliers and for kit builders. Aimed at people who are experts not beginners.

 

Jason

I didn’t say what my items were, deliberately, because I suspected people would be able to identify the traders and take this as a direct snipe at them and their products.  It isn’t intended as such, more a comment on how I see the hobby.  But in this case, I was looking for transfers for a parkside dundas kit and an 08.  That kit our beginner has bought after building an airfix spitfire?  Now I know Parkside are now sold with transfers, but I picked up three from my local yesterday and two were older stock with no transfers.

 

Yes, I know there’s a fourth transfer supplier out there whose website isn’t too bad, but I wanted to see who else was out there and I’d hope I compared three similar one person operations.  The big supplier I referred to is Peco.  You know, the first hit in google for a search on ‘Parkside Dundas kits?’

 

Having dug my chequebook our, the last cheque I wrote was 8 years ago.

 

Owain 

[Firecracker]

Following on from my post, I can’t help think there’s two issues here. First, catching our genuine beginner, second, keeping hold of said beginner and encouraging them down the road.  So at the first, we’re aiming a reliable, cheap train set which grabs them by the wossnames and gives them the bug.  The second we’re adding to that train set.  So more functionality, better details, getting into kitbuilding, all made as easy as possible.

 

Personally, I think we’re OK on the first.  The second?  If it’s a toss up between a kit for a spitfire that comes with all it’s transfers and a wagon that needs transfers ( I recently finished a parkside fish van kit off that was first built in the mid 90’s.   No transfers, because at the time aged 16 I couldn’t source any.  Yet at the same point I was building the Avro Lancaster airfix kit in BBMF colours which came with a full set of transfers.  I can remember being infuriated reading wagon building articles in the press where transfers were covered by a  dismissive ‘using my stash of Appleby Model engineering transfers’.  That’s no use to me matey, AME are unavailable.  

 

This is may sound like sour grapes and maybe it is, but it certainly was a factor in the sabbatical I took from the hobby.  So upon my return, I’m spending my money with those who actually seem to want to take it off me.

 

Owain

[Phil Parker]

3 hours ago, Firecracker said:

Its not that hard folks.

 

It might not be hard for you to set up a web shop with photos - but can you make transfers? No?

 

Once you get into the realm of cottage industry suppliers, you are talking to one-man-bands. So, your company owner might be good at making transfers, but has no IT skills. That's the reality of life, very few people are good at everything.

 

In an ideal world, he'd team up with someone who can do the IT side, but that's going to cost money and there's no guarantee that the extra sales will cover this. It's frustrating, but I'm not sure what the alternative is. We are not talking about mass-market products for the specialist items we require.

[kevinlms]

28 minutes ago, Firecracker said:

  The big supplier I referred to is Peco.  You know, the first hit in google for a search on ‘Parkside Dundas kits?’

 

Owain 

Well, you have partly answered your question and a link on the home page reveals the rest of the answer.

 

https://peco-uk.com/pages/find-a-stockist

 

Peco is there to support their stockists, once they have manufactured the item. They are NOT primarily a retailer and everything they do sell, is at the recommended price (or whatever it's called these days). AFAIK, Peco don't discount anything at all, unless it's a genuine clearance item.

It has long been Peco's policy to NOT undercut their stockists. Indeed it's bad practice for any business to do so.