Why is their no budget range for the younger modeller to get into this hobby?

[choochootwains=ePIc]

On 27/08/2020 at 23:56, CanSpam said:

 my friend is completing his Hornby Trackmat layout.

I cant believe you threw me under the bus like that! It's just very similar... 

[009 micro modeller]

1 hour ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

Yes, it's much easier researching the past now than it was in the 1960s.

 

Part of this is because of the internet and the ability to print short runs of books on specialist subjects more cheaply. However, I suspect it’s also because of improvements in photography, so the prototypes that have existed since the 1960s have been recorded more. Obviously pre-grouping and earlier railways were hardly photographed at all, or only by official photographers. The internet has also helped to open up overseas prototype information. I suppose the more distant past in railway terms (i.e. far enough back that virtually nobody remembers it) is now the late pre-grouping and early big four era, which in general is surely easier to model than, for example, the railways of the 1860s. But as I said, if everyone wants to do their own thing it’s harder for manufacturers to make a range for beginners than it would be if everyone was modelling either the big four or the BR steam era (the latter can be served, to an extent, by just reissuing the same models as for the former but painted different colours - the same applies to late BR/early privatisation).

[009 micro modeller]

As an aside, I went to a local Hobbycraft today and they didn’t seem to be selling ANY model railway stuff. Is this specific to this one or the whole chain? It is sort of relevant to this thread if they’ve decided the market is no longer there.

 

On the other hand the nearby model railway shop seemed to be doing some good business.

[DK123GWR]

4 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

As an aside, I went to a local Hobbycraft today and they didn’t seem to be selling ANY model railway stuff. Is this specific to this one or the whole chain? It is sort of relevant to this thread if they’ve decided the market is no longer there.

 

On the other hand the nearby model railway shop seemed to be doing some good business.

I don't go too often but there seems to be less every time. I think they used to have a fairly extensive range of track, buildings, grass, etc. (although I was quite young at the time so my memory may be faulty) but the last time I went in I didn't notice anything rail-related.

[009 micro modeller]

45 minutes ago, DK123GWR said:

I don't go too often but there seems to be less every time. I think they used to have a fairly extensive range of track, buildings, grass, etc. (although I was quite young at the time so my memory may be faulty) but the last time I went in I didn't notice anything rail-related.

 

Used to have all the Hornby 00 track, a bit of stock and loads of Woodland Scenics materials if I remember rightly.

[Binky]

A search on Hobbycraft's site brings up woodland scenics materials but the only Hornby railway item is a single hogwarts express set.

I seem to remember last time I visited a store the woodland scenics range was on display next to the wargames stuff so maybe that's who the bigger market is now.

[009 micro modeller]

44 minutes ago, Binky said:

A search on Hobbycraft's site brings up woodland scenics materials but the only Hornby railway item is a single hogwarts express set.

I seem to remember last time I visited a store the woodland scenics range was on display next to the wargames stuff so maybe that's who the bigger market is now.

 

They may also be selling some stuff on their website but not in shops. I didn’t notice any Woodland Scenics stuff either but that’s American so may be harder to restock under current circumstances.

[Steamport Southport]

As an aside I applied for a manager job at Hobbycraft. Managed to get an interview.

 

They didn't seem to want to know unless you were into "crafting", cooking, knitting or sewing.

 

The other stuff like model railways and kits is just kids toys.....

 

 

 

Jason

[rob D2]

Not much in the Swindon one. They didn’t replenish the sticks of plasticard when that ran out. I think there is a bit of woodlands scenic S...

 

lots of plastic kits still...so 8 guess that market is bigger for casual purchases 

[Binky]

I'd take a guess that under non covid circumstances their largest market is craft materials for school projects.

[rob D2]

Yep, don’t see many if the usual modelling demographic in there .

 

mainly mums I’d say 

[Firecracker]

11 hours ago, rob D2 said:

Not much in the Swindon one. They didn’t replenish the sticks of plasticard when that ran out. I think there is a bit of woodlands scenic S...

 

lots of plastic kits still...so 8 guess that market is bigger for casual purchases 

York’s got a reasonable display of plastic kits, mostly Tamiya, Humbrol and Tamiya paints, glues, Tools, some woodland scenics and some materials (stripwood, balsa).  Never seen any railway stuff in there, except at Christmas when they had the Hornby Coca Cola set in.  I’m in there fairly regularly,because they’ve got a good stock of other more general stuff (foam core board, paintbrushes, hot melt glue, craft foam, storage boxes (the ‘really usefull’ flat boxes are my preferred rolling stock storage these days) etc.  One that’s always worth a look is Boyes, in York they’ve got a good games workshop selection, a regularly changing selection of tools (cheapest source of xcelite/exacto knife blades and razor saws I’ve found) and Vallejo paints.

 

Plus they do decent work boot socks and 5 packs of Trebor XXXX mints cheap.  What’s not to like?

Owain

[RichardT]

2 hours ago, Firecracker said:

York’s got a reasonable display of plastic kits, mostly Tamiya, Humbrol and Tamiya paints, glues

There’s a Hobbycraft in York!? 
 

Where is it Owain?

 

Boyes - seconded.  When I moved to Darlington from York I was pleased to find that it has a bigger Boyes than York with lots of general hobby/craft stuff *and* cheap clothes! (You can’t wear bespoke *all* the time...). I pity those benighted places south of Lincolnshire that don’t have Boyes.

 

Sorry - more OT.

 

Richard

[DCB]

I believe young modellers want to model what they can see current era.  That to many young people means preserved locos, preserved stock, heritage buildings either restored or derelict on Network Rail.   The futurama of 2015 on stock in post 1968 stations is a very limited niche.  Dereliction, weed strewn main lines,  800s,  Sprinters, Brunel architecture, ripped up sidings disused trackless platforms, is the real 2020 railways to many children with enough space to contemplate a model railway. That is nothing like as inspiring as a trip to the Dart Valley or NYMR.   It makes sense for retailers to sell models of extant heritage locomotives if they want to sell to young folk, but they don't seem to grasp this opportunity...  The only difference between 1965 main line steam and 2020 preserved lines is really they only go 1/3rd of the speed now.

[Firecracker]

1 hour ago, RichardT said:

There’s a Hobbycraft in York!? 
 

Where is it Owain?

Monks cross shopping park.  Between primark and Poundland. No alifiation at all, just a very happy customer.

1 hour ago, RichardT said:

 I pity those benighted places south of Lincolnshire that don’t have Boyes.

Don’t worry, they’ll see the light eventually.  Mate of mine does missionary work down there.  He says they’re really quite nice, once you get over the webbed feet and the three surnames per county.

1 hour ago, RichardT said:

Sorry - more OT.

 

Richard

More OT from me too matey!

 

Owain

[1E BoY]

On 23/08/2020 at 20:47, 1E BoY said:

On 23/08/2020 at 19:22, 009 micro modeller said:

This sounds interesting - do you know how it works? I presume it is 2-rail DC like other stuff in related ranges and doesn’t have a way of disengaging the gears so I’m struggling to work out how it can have the ability to coast

 

I will investigate further. I also have a couple of the Class 21/29 Bo-Bo's so will have a look at them too. 

 

They are standard 2 rail and if I recall correctly they run in both directions.

 

The Class 21/29 Bo-Bo was more expensive at 52/- (roughly £2.60)

 

I have now investigated further and taken two Playcraft locomotives apart. Points to note are;

 

1 - That they were sold as toys and not scale models.

 

2 - They are OO/HO scale and in most cases nearer HO but some dimensions are dubious.

 

3 - They were cheap and available in most branches of F.W.Woolworth and were sold in thousands.

 

4 - Loco wheels can be rotated by hand and even pushed up and down the track without any risk of damage.

 

5 - They fulfilled a need for all of us who were financially challenged back in the 1960s.

 

6 - I know the World has moved on since 1963 but if someone wants cheap starter sets or individual items then they will have to be very basic.  

 

7 - Rivet counters will find plenty on this locomotive but they may struggle finding the prototype!

 

This is what a 35/- (£1.75) locomotive looked like back then and it still runs well!

Edited August 30, 2020 by 1E BoY
Price correction

[1E BoY]

This is the 52/- (£2.60) Class 21/29 Bo-Bo.

 

I have kept these to remind me just how far this hobby has come in my lifetime and I even run them at Vintage Train events from time to time. Playcraft items can still be found and are usually at the cheaper end of the collecting spectrum.

[eldomtom2]

1 hour ago, 1E BoY said:

This is what a 35/- (£1.75) locomotive looked like back then and it still runs well!

When inflation is taken into account, the Hornby 0-4-0s are of comparable price, and considering recent changes to the motors make them acceptable slow runners, perhaps the answer has been staring us in the face the whole time? (Now if only they'd produce the 0F and 101 in prototypical liveries...)

[Chrisr40]

Maybe a better idea would be a how to buy 2nd hand without getting caught out. If you are expecting to start the hobby and buy everything new then even basic things are going to be relatively pricey/soon add up. With a bit of knowledge shared by those already in the hobby you could make wise rather than impulse purchases at toy fairs etc and get a good start. Keeping an eye on sales and bargain bins on line is also recomended. 

[009 micro modeller]

1 hour ago, eldomtom2 said:

Now if only they'd produce the 0F and 101 in prototypical liveries...

 

They have done, haven’t they? Just that those in unrealistic liveries vastly outnumber them.

[009 micro modeller]

8 minutes ago, Chrisr40 said:

Maybe a better idea would be a how to buy 2nd hand without getting caught out. If you are expecting to start the hobby and buy everything new then even basic things are going to be relatively pricey/soon add up. With a bit of knowledge shared by those already in the hobby you could make wise rather than impulse purchases at toy fairs etc and get a good start. Keeping an eye on sales and bargain bins on line is also recomended. 

 

A good idea, as there are obviously a few pitfalls to avoid and it would be more encouraging for beginners if they didn’t have to spend ages fixing or returning every single purchase.

[Steamport Southport]

1 hour ago, 009 micro modeller said:

 

They have done, haven’t they? Just that those in unrealistic liveries vastly outnumber them.

 

And seemingly outsell them.

 

Although they did make 197,000 GWR 101s.

 

http://www.hornbyguide.com/item_year_details.asp?itemyearid=15

 

First set I got was this. With the four wheel coaches as a separate present.

 

http://www.hornbyguide.com/item_year_details.asp?itemyearid=1085

 

£15.75 in the days of £60 Millennium Falcons....

 

 

 

Jason

[Binky]

12 hours ago, Chrisr40 said:

Maybe a better idea would be a how to buy 2nd hand without getting caught out. If you are expecting to start the hobby and buy everything new then even basic things are going to be relatively pricey/soon add up. With a bit of knowledge shared by those already in the hobby you could make wise rather than impulse purchases at toy fairs etc and get a good start. Keeping an eye on sales and bargain bins on line is also recomended. 

I think Budget Model Railways has covered this a bit on youtube. Newcomers would certainly benefit from a guide of what to look out for/avoid, where money can be saved and what things are worth spending money on. Something in text format would be good so it can be printed off or saved on a smartphone for reference.

[Chrisr40]

48 minutes ago, Binky said:

I think Budget Model Railways has covered this a bit on youtube. Newcomers would certainly benefit from a guide of what to look out for/avoid, where money can be saved and what things are worth spending money on. Something in text format would be good so it can be printed off or saved on a smartphone for reference.

I have to admit that I enjoy bargain hunting as much as building and operating. I am a buyer for a living and it's difficult to switch off the instincts. I grow my own seafoam for trees too which saves money.

Edited August 31, 2020 by Chrisr40

[Binky]

19 minutes ago, Chrisr40 said:

I have to admit that I enjoy bargain hunting as much as building and operating. I am a buyer for a living and it's difficult to switch off the instincts. I grow my own seafoam for trees too which saves money.

 

A little off topic but I'm a bargain hunter too, and part of the fun of modelling for me is repairing/altering/restoring things, just like preservation and restoration in the real world.

I once had someone in the radio control model truck community get very angry at me when I asked if anyone had a used cab for sale as a project, because in his mind I was "cheap" for not buying a new one when cutting up and repurposing a used one would be just as good and more satisfying.