Stonehaven derailment

[The Stationmaster]

1 minute ago, woodenhead said:

Apparently they had come from the BBC site, though I think the BBC may have since taken them back down, but it could like you say have come from a passenger.

The picture of the power car - with the nose structure missing and a fire towards the rear end of the car - is on Facebook.  Going on my past experience with HST fires it looks as if the seat of the fire is in the vicinity of the fuel tanks.

 

Fingers crossed that the Driver managed to get out of the cab in time.

[Harlequin]

The Scotsman is saying "Industry sources confirmed [a] death" and they have some reporting of the sequence of events:

 

https://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/stonehaven-one-dead-after-scotrail-train-derailment-aberdeenshire-2939946

 

It looks very bad.

 

[TheSignalEngineer]

29 minutes ago, scottystitch said:

However, my point was that locals would have no probelm accessing it, particularly on foot.

I'm not sure of the exact location, but from information put out by the press it appears to be by Carron Wood. If so there is a forestry track shown on the map which is only about 30 yards from the line around there. I think the start of it is visible at the left hand edge of the picture of the ambulances parked up being put out by the BBC.

[KeithHC]

It looks on video on the lunch time news that there is temporary road cover down already.

 

Hope all the other crew and passengers are now safe.

 

Keith

['CHARD]

3 minutes ago, DavidCBroad said:

What is that under the MK3?   Doesn't look much like part of an HST.   Concrete?

 

 

I was shown that earlier today; suggestions it was an HST trailer but I didn't think so, unless the light is catching it at an odd angle.  It's not possible to make out, is it?  

[Boris]

33 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

The picture of the power car - with the nose structure missing and a fire towards the rear end of the car - is on Facebook.  Going on my past experience with HST fires it looks as if the seat of the fire is in the vicinity of the fuel tanks.

 

Fingers crossed that the Driver managed to get out of the cab in time.

BBC are saying the driver died unfortunately

[woodenhead]

7 minutes ago, 'CHARD said:

 

I was shown that earlier today; suggestions it was an HST trailer but I didn't think so, unless the light is catching it at an odd angle.  It's not possible to make out, is it?  

Hence my earlier not elaborating what the upturned coach was lay on, it's not clear what it is and we should not get into speculation.

[JohnR]

51 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Amazing though it might seem there was information on social media about the Ladbroke Grove collision long before anything official was happening.  the train I was on that morning was stopped at Dolphin Jcn east of Slough and the Guard came on the p.a. to say that he was trying to ascertain the cause of the delay.  Within moments there were several passengers in the coach I was in who were saying there had been 'a crash near Paddington'

 

Ladbroke Grove was long before Social Media, surely? Just goes to show that the only thing that travels at the speed of light is gossip.

[black and decker boy]

From the twitter pics that were later taken down, its clear that alot of energy was involved in this with alot of damage.

 

Debris can be seen on the general news coverage (of the remaining PC sitting just off a bridge) you can see PC \ Trailer panels, masonry and damage to the bridge parapet & fence.

 

reports elsewhere saying contractors were working in the area (an excavator can be seen at the site of the front PC on the now deleted shots on RAILs twitter feed) so hopefully help was on hand quickly.

 

Press now suggesting 2 fatalities sadly. Very tragic.

[Bomag]

There seems to be some disappearing  posts, on this an other forums. From a post on some other forum there was a picture from above which could indicate a bridge failure rather than a second landslip. Without assuming it was anything to do with scour, with issues of flash flooding looking to be more common it may need to be time to look at what is assessed. Back in the 90's I did a few bridge assessments where I looked at consistent high river flows rather than flash flood.

[Legend]

Well if theres an upside to this blasted virus , its that there were only 6 passengers on the train .  Its been horrendous weather in Central and East Scotland , I've seen a picture of flooding at Perth.  Thoughts with all those affected and their families . Given all we are going through this year , it just seems somehow particularly tragic that people lose their lives on something as mundane as being on a train.

[AY Mod]

1 minute ago, Bomag said:

There seems to be some disappearing  posts,

 

Yes, posts containing images of the derailment aftermath and speculation have been removed. It's not appropriate.

['CHARD]

There is a long and shocking history of extreme weather events that have impacted the railways of the east coast.  Fortunately, the majority have not involved loss of life.  

 

Amazingly, those that affected the Eyemouth branch were on this day, 12th August, in 1948.  

https://www.aytonhistory.com/the-1948-flood 

[The Stationmaster]

26 minutes ago, Bomag said:

There seems to be some disappearing  posts, on this an other forums. From a post on some other forum there was a picture from above which could indicate a bridge failure rather than a second landslip. Without assuming it was anything to do with scour, with issues of flash flooding looking to be more common it may need to be time to look at what is assessed. Back in the 90's I did a few bridge assessments where I looked at consistent high river flows rather than flash flood.

All we know is that the train derailed and that it appears a slip of some sort was involved (note I do not even say 'responsible').  That is all that is sensibly in the public arena apart from the identity and details of the train reported earlier in this thread - nothing about a bridge, nothing about the nature of the slip.  Until we hear anything further confirming the nature of the slip, or whatever it was that led to the derailment we are in the realms of speculation and guess work, and so is the media.

 

Any of us with experience of derailment investigation or slips could immediately - but in this case wholly speculatively - list a myriad of possibilities about what happened and how it happened.   To do so would be not only be pointless but utterly wasteful and potentially seriously misleading particularly as it now seems a death, or two, was unfortunately involved.

Edited August 12, 2020 by The Stationmaster

[Metr0Land]

54 minutes ago, JohnR said:

 

Ladbroke Grove was long before Social Media, surely? Just goes to show that the only thing that travels at the speed of light is gossip.

 

October 1999 - plenty of mobile phones with text and email capability

[Kris]

3 minutes ago, Metr0Land said:

 

October 1999 - plenty of mobile phones with text and email capability

No cameras on phones at this time however. This is obviously getting far away from the horrid events unfurling in Scotland and I can only wish the best for all involved. 

[380John]

Reminds me of the events of the 1945 Ruabon to Barmouth accident at Sun Bank Halt. Thoughts with the passengers, crew and their families. 

 

John 

[Phil Parker]

Another reminder - the time for an enquiry is not now, and not on a forum where no-one has any facts. Please be careful with your posting if you need to post at all right now.

[Bomag]

33 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

All we know is that the train derailed and that it appears a slip of some sort was involved (note I do not even say 'responsible').  That is all that is sensibly in the public arena apart from the identity and details of the train reported earlier in this thread - nothing about a bridge, nothing about the nature of the slip.  Until we hear anything further confirming the nature of the slip, or whatever it was that led to the derailment we are in the realms of speculation and guess work, and so is the media.

 

Any of us with experience of derailment investigation or slips could immediately - but in this case wholly speculatively - list a myriad of possibilities about what happened and how it happened.   To do so would be not only be pointless but utterly wasteful and potentially seriously misleading particularly as it now seems a death, or two, was unfortunately involved.

 

Which is why I said that it may not be relevant in this case. Looking at other footage of floods in this area for this event, along with similar high intensity flooding incidents in the recent past may mean that both structural and geotechnical assessment criteria may need to change. In the 1990's the Indian code of practice had more diverse failure modes (for both monsoon and flash floods) than the UK standard. 

[Railfreight1998]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-53751678

 

Now three confirmed fatalities, one is the driver.

 

Its 5 miles from where I live - my thoughts go out to all those involved and their families.

[Bucoops]

39 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

To do so would be not only be pointless but utterly wasteful and potentially seriously misleading particularly as it now seems a death, or two, was unfortunately involved.

 

Tragically BTP have announced 3 fatalities and 6 hospitalised. As others have said thankfully the train was nearly empty.

 

Horrible, horrible tragedy.

[37114]

Horrible tragedy, thoughts with the victims and their families. Thankfully the train seems to have been lightly loaded as having seen the pictures elsewhere there were some significant forces involved judging by where the carriages and power car ended up.

[Ken.W]

11 minutes ago, Railfreight1998 said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-53751678

 

Now three confirmed fatalities, one is the driver.

 

Its 5 miles from where I live - my thoughts go out to all those involved and their families.

 

Terrible news, thoughts with all those involved, their families, and also the driver's colleagues,

know what it is to loose close colleagues due to an obstruction of the line

[AY Mod]

57 minutes ago, Bomag said:

Which is why I said that it may not be relevant in this case.

 

Please don't say it then. Speculation means that someone has to spend time addressing it which further fuels irrelevant or uninformed discussions.

 

Leave it to those whose job it is to identify and report issues. We're not an armchair RAIB.

[Railfreight1998]

2 hours ago, 'CHARD said:

 

I was shown that earlier today; suggestions it was an HST trailer but I didn't think so, unless the light is catching it at an odd angle.  It's not possible to make out, is it?  

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-scotland-53751774

 

The photo at the top of this page shows that yes, it is one of the trailers.