Peco Small Y Electrofrog / Normal Y Point

[marcusd666]

Hi All, Just a quick question I have some small peco Y points and normal Y points electrofrog when I turn them over should there be a wire connected to the frog on the small one like on the normal one?

 

Also my layout will be wired for DC but I want to future proof it for DCC there doesn't seem to be the wires that you have to cut on them like on my other points?

 

Cheers

Marcus

[ejstubbs]

3 hours ago, marcusd666 said:

there doesn't seem to be the wires that you have to cut on them like on my other points

 

Correct, they are not provided on this particular turnout.  Neither are the gaps in the switch rails, which is what the jumper wires you refer to are provided to bridge.  And nor is a frog polarity wire provided.  (As far as I can tell from your photo you have the code 100 version of this turnout; the code 75 version does have the frog polarity wire provided "out of the box" but still doesn't have the rail gaps or jumper wires.)

 

I think it's generally understood that Peco don't provide the jumpered rail gaps in the short Y turnouts because it would leave a short length of each switch rail supported only by two plastic "chairs", which could be potential weak point mechanically.

 

If you want to go ahead and modify these points then you will have to gap the switch rails and attach a frog polarity wire yourself.  And probably devise some form of mitigation for the mechanical weak points introduced by the rail gaps.

 

This subject has been discussed a number of time in the past on RMWeb, e.g:

• https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/112573-peco-electrofrog-y-points-misleading-instructions/
• https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/142493-peco-small-radius-wye-e197-wiring-help/
• https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/131217-small-radius-y-point-sl-e197-code-75-electrofrog-point/ (note in this thread the statement: Peco Technical Help  say "Due to the short closure rails it is not possible to cut these rails")
• https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/114509-peco-electrofrog-code-100-small-radius-point-wiring/
• https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/102251-peco-short-y-point/

(Note that the discussions about the code 75 versions of the turnout are generally equally applicable to the code 100 version since, apart from the fact that frog polarity wire is provided "out of the box" on the code 75 version, the issues are essentially the same.)

[marcusd666]

Thanks for clearing that up will have a good read of the links you have mentioned.

 

Cheers

Marcus

[kevinlms]

19 hours ago, ejstubbs said:

 

I think it's generally understood that Peco don't provide the jumpered rail gaps in the short Y turnouts because it would leave a short length of each switch rail supported only by two plastic "chairs", which could be potential weak point mechanically.

 

 

Could it be due to the fact that these short 'y's have not been upgraded yet? After all Peco need to work their way through the range and if the tooling is in good nick, it won't be done soon.

[ejstubbs]

54 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

Could it be due to the fact that these short 'y's have not been upgraded yet?

 

I wasn't aware that Peco had an upgrade programme under way.  What form does the upgrade usually take?

 

Note also the comment reported in one of the links I provided above, from Peco Technical Support stating that there isn't room to put gaps in the switch rails.  The short Y is a pretty compact turnout compared to every other Streamline turnout bar the trap points (which don't really count, and which certainly aren't relevant to this discussion) and I suspect there's a fairly delicate balance between features & reliability/robustness that can't quite be met within such a limited amount of 'real estate', so some features had to be sacrificed.

[Butler Henderson]

Peco frequently revise their points, frog and check rail clearances have tightened up such that my 1980s Hornby Rocket sticks in current code 100 points whereas it runs perfectly through through ones of equivalent age. The undersides have been modified except for the small Y, the overcentre spring housing has altered, the tie bar has changed and the moveable blades are now attached differently.