B.R. Diesel Class 03

[SouthernEMU]

Hi All.

Just purchased an 'O' scale green B.R. Class 03 from Hattons for a very good sale price.  I have attempted a detailed search on the web for the allocation of this class, or where a numbered unit would have worked, particularly on the Southern Region, but cannot find much detail.  J. Vaughan's book 'Diesels on the Southern' shows one of the early B.R. green units D2179 on a short goods train (3 ore wagons, 2 vans, 1 5-plank and a brake van) passing Wimbledon C signalbox with a goods from Raynes Park to Nine Elms. (would work as far as Wimbledon Yard).  Another shows an 03 D2254 at Southampton.  Is Southampton or Bournemouth (and Weymouth Key) the location where most of the 03s worked or could they be seen all over the B.R.(S)?  Was the flower pot exhaust more common than the conical exhaust on these units ?

Lastly,  Is there a significance regarding D.2011?  Bachmann chose this particular unit in '00', and Heljan chose it for 'O'.  I cannot find where this unit mainly worked.  Any information much appreciated. Cheers. EW.

[The Bigbee Line]

Probably a case of looking at pictures. There is an 03 at Kingston Wharf. 

[Nearholmer]

http://www.brdatabase.info/locoqry.php?action=class&type=D&id=3&page=fleet
 

This might help, although I know that it tends to generate controversy. If you click the "alloc" tab, it lists all the known depot allocations for each loco.

 

These locos were quite widespread on the Southern in the 1960s (less so in Kent, I think), but by the 1970s there were only a few left, all on the SW Division, except for one at Slade Green Depot IIRC, and I have a feeling that they had all gone by c1977/8.

 

In the 1960s, Woking had one for shunting the parcels bay, that much I do remember, probably originally D2031 or D2041, looking at the allocations, since they both belonged to Guildford until that shed closed.

 

The photo of D2179 at Wimbledon probably dates from when it was allocated to Feltham.

 

I don't know when it was first published (1973 I think), but in the very early 1970s, there used to be a little booklet from the Inter City Railway Society every so often, which listed shunting loco duties, i.e. where they could likely be found, as opposed to simply allocations ......... somebody still might have a copy in their attic!

 

 

Edited August 18, 2020 by Nearholmer

[Father Dougal]

If I recall correctly there were several 03’s allocated to various China clay works in Cornwall, they were eventually replaced with 08’s.

Doogle China clay diesel shunters and you find a few.

Dougle

[Nearholmer]

In the bookazine Modern Locomotives Illustrated No.217, which gives a brief pictorial summary of these locos, there is a very nice photo of D.2183 working a china clay train on the Wenfordbridge branch.

[lapford34102]

Hi,

Weymouth 03's of the 60's, all with "flowerpot" exhausts:- 2082, 2397,2398,2399;

also 2043 but can't find a pic offhand, B'mouth had a conical exhaust 03 which IIRC is the green one Bachmann recently did.

HTH

Stu

 

Afterthought edit. Some 03's built for the Southern Region had additional marker lights front and rear. Again if IIRC conical was only used on a limited number of early ones.

Edited August 18, 2020 by lapford34102
Afterthought!!

[Nearholmer]

According to the bookazine cited above, the flowerpots were fitted around the cone exhausts to add weight to the front-end of the locos, starting at a particular point in the build programme, then in other cases, but not all, retrofitted to early locos.

 

I’m not totally sure I believe the ‘adding weight’ business, Because it seems such a bizarre way to go about it, but it’s interesting.
 

If correct, this suggests that the same loco could be without, then with, flowerpot at different dates.

 

As with all classes, those who are not content to have an 03 on their layouT, but wish to have the particular 03, on the particular date, can have a field day with micro-variations.

Edited August 18, 2020 by Nearholmer

[SouthernEMU]

Hi All, and thank you for the replies.  Nearholmer - many thanks to you. I searched and searched for a list, but I assume my search wording wasn't sufficient enough as the list you directed me to never showed up. It is very helpful..  As per 'The Bigbee Line' suggestion, the many 03 photos posted on line really tend to show the preserved units without detailing exactly where they worked.  I will check again in case I missed any other sites.

Cheers all.

EW

[The Bigbee Line]

You need to search in different ways. Do not expect lists to appear. 
 

I had a quick google and found these. 
 

D2083 Hither Green May 1969

D2085 Eastleigh 1960

D2028 Bournemouth September 1966

D2028 Poole Harbour Sept 1966

 

in the pre digital age, the photographer had to choose carefully. A mainline steam loco or a humble shunter....

[Nearholmer]

Very true. It seems that photos of shunters "emerge" when looking for other things, because they are often not captioned in a way that mentions the loco class, especially given that they weren't called '03' until TOPS.

 

Bigbee - you mentioned Kingston Wharf earlier, I think, and there is very good photo of an 0-6-0DS and a load of rather ratty looking boats on-line, but I think it shows an 04, not an 03. Did you find another photo?

 

Incidentally, there were more 04 on the southern than 03, about twenty of the former went new to BR(S) and about ten of the latter, with quite a few of the 04 going to Kent, where steam was eliminated quite early as the KC electrification was undertaken.

 

K

 

PS: If you add "Southern Region" to the title of this, I think you'll get more/focused contributions.

 

Edited August 19, 2020 by Nearholmer

[Halvarras]

Regarding SR Class 03s with conical exhausts, my 1968 IA Locoshed book shows D2000/1/3 at Brighton (75A), D2002 at Selhurst (75C) and D2028 at Bournemouth (70F). All five had been withdrawn by the end of 1969. AFAIK all other SR Class 03s would have had 'flowerpot' exhausts.

 

The only Class 03s seen in Cornwall were D2127/29/83, variously between 1961 and 1967.

 

MLI no 217 is interesting and contains enough photos to draw some conclusions, such as:

 - Swindon used brass for the cab window frames and Doncaster used aluminium

 - Swindon applied the running numbers in large steam-style, Doncaster preferred normal block serif (some Swindon-built locos overhauled by the ER had their number style switched, including most if not all of D2000-3/28 above, which were originally ER-allocated)

 - Swindon painted its 'flowerpot' exhausts black, Doncaster green (difficult to pin this down 100%)

The MLI listing shows that for some reason Swindon built D2175-86 out of sequence (D2175's build date is wrong, see top of page 48) which explains the apparent anomaly in the fitting of the front bufferbeam loop grabrails.

 

Possibly the only example of an 03 getting an exhaust changed was D2162, whose conical item was shorter than standard. Considering that only D2000-32, D2370/71 and D2162 received conical exhausts, that's just 36 out of 230, I am puzzled by Bachmann' s fixation on conicals on their 4mm 03s, confirmed by the latest trio, again two out of three. They have never released a plain green one with 'flowerpot', some of these survived until the mid 1960s.

[The Bigbee Line]

8 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Very true. It seems that photos of shunters "emerge" when looking for other things, because they are often not captioned in a way that mentions the loco class, especially given that they weren't called '03' until TOPS.

 

Bigbee - you mentioned Kingston Wharf earlier, I think, and there is very good photo of an 0-6-0DS and a load of rather ratty looking boats on-line, but I think it shows an 04, not an 03. Did you find another photo?

 

Incidentally, there were more 04 on the southern than 03, about twenty of the former went new to BR(S) and about ten of the latter, with quite a few of the 04 going to Kent, where steam was eliminated quite early as the KC electrification was undertaken.

 

K

 

PS: If you add "Southern Region" to the title of this, I think you'll get more/focused contributions.

 

D2082 1959 looks to be in green with no wasp ends. Flower pot exhaust. 
Middleton Press - South Coast Railways Brighton to Worthing. 
 

[Nearholmer]

Thanks.

 

Which makes the point, I guess, that where a depot like Brighton had some of each of 04 and 03, they would be used indiscriminately, unless they had special fitments like skirts or cut-down cabs (neither of which applied to the southern) for special uses.

[Nearholmer]

D2041 at Woking, just as I remember it, a really good colour photo. The page takes ages to load, and you need to scroll down a long way without getting distracted by all the zillons of other interesting things! https://web.archive.org/web/20191220052835/http://www.davidheyscollection.com/page30.htm

 

Here is a photo of my, not as refined as the OP's I'm sure, 0 gauge one shifting parcel vans about.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 19, 2020 by Nearholmer

[47606odin]

Had 04’s on the Eastern division, based out of Hither Green, but don’t recall seeing any 03 photos over this side

[Nearholmer]

Some info about the one that was at Slade Green in the mid-70s.

 

https://sremg.org.uk/diesel/class03_01.html

 

I can’t be totally sure, but I have a feeling that this might have been the last Drewry 204hp on the southern, remaining a tiny bit later than the Weymouth/Bournemouth ones.

[The Bigbee Line]

I found a video clip once. Showed an 03/04 shunting Lewes Road. It had hauled from Brighton. The loco headed into the sidings. The loco eased the power, a coupling was lifted and it powered up. The loco sped off, the points changed and the wagons and brake rolled into the sidings. 
Risky if the move stops short....

[SouthernEMU]

On 18/08/2020 at 13:30, Nearholmer said:

According to the bookazine cited above, the flowerpots were fitted around the cone exhausts to add weight to the front-end of the locos, starting at a particular point in the build programme, then in other cases, but not all, retrofitted to early locos.

 

I’m not totally sure I believe the ‘adding weight’ business, Because it seems such a bizarre way to go about it, but it’s interesting.
 

If correct, this suggests that the same loco could be without, then with, flowerpot at different dates.

 

As with all classes, those who are not content to have an 03 on their layouT, but wish to have the particular 03, on the particular date, can have a field day with micro-variations.

Nearholmer as you note there are so many variables which I have discovered.  Using information from the site that you recommended, D.2179 - which is in the photo I mentioned at the outset, although I didn't know it at the time - appears to be one of the best choices for the early 1960s on the Southern Region (D.2180 would also be applicable). Like D.2180, D.2179 apparently started its working life at Hither Green and remained there for 1 year before moving to Feltham as you noted.  In the photo it shows D.2179 with wasp stripes and the photo is dated July 1963.  As Heljan produce a Class 03 with or without the wasp stripes in green, I'm guessing that either could apply on a particular date.  A minor detail, but the photo does appear to show a black grille not yellow as on the Heljan option.  So, thank you for your help and I truly appreciate all the advice that this forum and others provide.  May I just ask why does the site you mentioned cause controversy?

On following The Bigbee Line's advice, and doing a more in-depth search, coincidentally  I found a few original Mainline '00' Class 3 models for sale on the well known trading site all numbered D.2179.  I obviously don't know how manufacturers choose unit numbers for their models, but I guess there must be some in-depth research carried out to ensure good sales of the particular numbered unit?  Here's hoping that Heljan or perhaps Dapol produce a Class 04, but I'll do better research next time so that hopefully I don't have to bother you all again!  Cheers EW

[Nearholmer]

23 minutes ago, SouthernEMU said:

May I just ask why does the site you mentioned cause controversy?

 

Because it is alleged to contain errors, and to have omissions. 

 

I don't know how it was compiled, but assuming that humans were involved it is bound to have errors, and the base sources almost certainly had omissions themselves, so I tend not to get quite as excited about its minor deficiencies as some people do.