Complex junction question

[B McG]

Hi All,

 

Hope you are all doing well. In a previous thread with help and feedback from a number of members I'm have a more or less finalised design of the storage yard I have planned.  

Regarding the scenic section I also nearly there too, however I have a couple of quandaries which are highlighted in red.  Currently curved points are used to enable a movement from the loop to enter the up main.  I'm potentially looking at getting a custom piece of track made to enable entry onto the up main line and to also allow enter from the up onto the branch within the top right red box area. The second attachment details the type of track work I am thinking of being made.  My thinking over this was to allow an increase of the lower platform length so that it could handle 10 BR mk1's and to enable some curve relaxation on the top right.  Also my experience of Peco curved points when used facing with a 10 coach train has not been reliable as I would like. The question is whether this arrangement would also look plausible in the 1970's if there was a constraint with space or whether I should stick with the curved points.

 

Also I'm mulling over whether to use a double slip with regard the goods yard entry and the head shunt. I'm not 100% sure due to the sub 30" radius of the slip and have had some not so great experiences on a previous layout with longer length goods trains, particularly when the rake was being pushed.  I'm open for advice on whether to go for it or stick with the two medium radius points.

 

All feedback gratefully received,

Cheers

Bryant

[Chimer]

That custom pointwork certainly looks great, as to whether it's possible I couldn't say .....

 

Regarding the double slip on the left, it looks as though anything reversing into the yard from the down main would be going straight across the slip, so maybe no need to worry about the radius?

 

Two other thoughts, feel free to ignore as they might require major surgery:

 

1.  Wouldn't the more likely route from the up main to the branch have the facing point in the left-hand throat, and use the loop platform?  And therefore .....

 

2.  Wouldn't it be good to have a direct route from the loop platform to the branch that doesn't conflict with the down main?  So the right-hand throat could be hugely simplified ..

 

 

.... at the cost of all branch services running via the loop.  In case it's not clear in the pic, that's a single slip giving you a trailing crossover.

 

Cheers, Chris

Edited August 21, 2020 by Chimer

[Zomboid]

Would the single slip trailing crossover thing be a common 1970s thing? If imagine by then that it would either be a wholly steam era arrangement (so the single slip is in play) or a BR Rationalised arrangement, which would avoid diamonds and slips as much as possible. I don't think the double slip scissors would be very likely in either case. I'd expect to see that kind of thing in Zurich or Hamburg, but not really in the UK so much.

[DCB]

A scissors and a bit as drawn can be cobbled up from Peco streamline  points, slips and short crossings suitably hacked about as I did a similar one 30 odd years ago, however its very difficult to keep to a 2" track spacing, I'm not sure whether I managed it or not but it was a lot narrower than the usual 2 X 2" spacing of a scissors made from out of the box streamline.

The vast majority of at sort of trackwork would have been culled by the 1970s .

As I understand the plan the way the Branch converges with main without an option to run into the loop platform would have been extremely awkward and time wasting. as branch and down main trains can't arrive together. I would add a chord line from branch to Down side loop platform and not bother with the scissors.

EDIT see doodle

Edited August 22, 2020 by DavidCBroad

[LNER4479]

Hi there,

 

My issue with your plan as drawn is that, in terms of prototypicality, you've got unprotected shunting going on at the left-hand end of your station (assuming that the island platform road is intended for passenger trains?)

 

Apologies for not being very adept with computer drawing, but I've shown two possible alternatives. Both would require some juggling about of the geometry but they result in an arrangement where you can be shunting back and forth and making movements on the depot, independent of trains moving in and out of the island platform road which is how it would typically be configured on the prototype. The first option is probably the better one if you can make it work.

Edited August 21, 2020 by LNER4479

[B McG]

1 hour ago, LNER4479 said:

Hi there,

 

My issue with your plan as drawn is that, in terms of prototypicality, you've got unprotected shunting going on at the left-hand end of your station (assuming that the island platform road is intended for passenger trains?)

 

Apologies for not being very adept with computer drawing, but I've shown two possible alternatives. Both would require some juggling about of the geometry but they result in an arrangement where you can be shunting back and forth and making movements on the depot, independent of trains moving in and out of the island platform road which is how it would typically be configured on the prototype. The first option is probably the better one if you can make it work.

Ouch, I missed that! Thanks for showing me the error of my ways.  What you've suggested makes perfect sense.

[B McG]

2 hours ago, DavidCBroad said:

A scissors and a bit as drawn can be cobbled up from Peco streamline  points, slips and short crossings suitably hacked about as I did a similar one 30 odd years ago, however its very difficult to keep to a 2" track spacing, I'm not sure whether I managed it or not but it was a lot narrower than the usual 2 X 2" spacing of a scissors made from out of the box streamline.

The vast majority of at sort of trackwork would have been culled by the 1970s .

As I understand the plan the way the Branch converges with main without an option to run into the loop platform would have been extremely awkward and time wasting. as branch and down main trains can't arrive together. I would add a chord line from branch to Down side loop platform and not bother with the scissors.

 

 

Thanks, that does make sense, perhaps more so if the branch feeds into the goods loop where directly ahead is the head shunt.  I've attached what I've what have in mind based on everyone's feedback.  Getting freight from the Up onto the branch could be done with a facing point cross over on the main line in the area of the red box.  

[Zomboid]

It looks as though that red box is off scene, and just round the corner (also apparently off scene) is a scissors crossover, so I doubt think you need another one at the box.

[B McG]

5 hours ago, Chimer said:

That custom pointwork certainly looks great, as to whether it's possible I couldn't say .....

 

Regarding the double slip on the left, it looks as though anything reversing into the yard from the down main would be going straight across the slip, so maybe no need to worry about the radius?

 

Two other thoughts, feel free to ignore as they might require major surgery:

 

1.  Wouldn't the more likely route from the up main to the branch have the facing point in the left-hand throat, and use the loop platform?  And therefore .....

 

2.  Wouldn't it be good to have a direct route from the loop platform to the branch that doesn't conflict with the down main?  So the right-hand throat could be hugely simplified ..

 

 

.... at the cost of all branch services running via the loop.  In case it's not clear in the pic, that's a single slip giving you a trailing crossover.

 

Cheers, Chris

 

Thanks for the advice Chris.  You've given me idea for using a similar arrangement on the other end of the loop to get access for freight from the up line to the branch.   Genius!

 

Apparently the point work is possible to construct, but not by a relative novice like me. I made an enquiry with a chap on e-bay who also has his own YouTube channel who can build these to 51mm track centres.   Now there is no need to, all I need to do is acquire a couple of single slips. 

 

Cheers, Bryant