18B Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 just flicking through a 1987 issue of Steam Railway and in it, is a caption to a pic described as "the last push-and-pull service on BR operating between the village of Seaton and Stamford on September 11th 1964. When did this service end as a push pull and was it indeed that last such service on BR? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim.snowdon Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 That might have been the last steam push-pull service, but main line push-pull operation on a grander scale three years later with the start of diesel & electric operations between Waterloo and Weymouth. From that came the push-pull operations on the East and West Coast main lines. Jim 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Jeremy Cumberland Posted August 21, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 21, 2020 (edited) They finished in October 1965 according to a couple of accounts online. Roger Scholes wrote an entertaining account of the last train in this thread: http://www.ancestorgateway.com/forum/read_thread.cfm?ForumID=7&ThreadID=197&Thread=152 I have not found any suggestion of a later steam-powered push-pull on an ordinary service train (diesel and electric push-pulls are common, of course). Horwich-Chorley survived until at least August 1965. Edited August 21, 2020 by Jeremy C 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 1 hour ago, jim.snowdon said: That might have been the last steam push-pull service, but main line push-pull operation on a grander scale three years later with the start of diesel & electric operations between Waterloo and Weymouth. From that came the push-pull operations on the East and West Coast main lines. Jim Not to forget two generations of them between Edinburgh and Glasgow. 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 2 hours ago, Edwin_m said: Not to forget two generations of them between Edinburgh and Glasgow. Or the WCML, ECML and GEML DVT sets. if two class 27s top and tailing is push pull then every HST service is the same as well. Push pull has never really stopped, it has just moved with the times and of course the latest incarnation is a class 68 and MK5 combo with TPE. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 Finding the last push pull service in BR might be harder. Which push pull service finished latest on 31st March 1997? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 I would say traditional BR steam it possibly was. But didn't one of the 14XXs go on the mainline in about 1971 and worked scheduled trains on one of the branch lines? Can't remember whether it was the Didcot one or one of the Dart Valley's. Both 1450 and 1466 have been mainline registered. Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted August 22, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 22, 2020 IIRC 1466 had a couple of outings In the early 70s on the Wallingford branch with one of Didcot’s trailers, and may have worked under it’s own steam between Didcot and Cholsey & Moulsford. Passengers were carried on the branch, but I would not like to be quoted as to whether the TRG was connected or the trailer was simply being propelled. There was a proposal at the time for the GWS to run regular services on the branch, which came to nothing. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted August 22, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 22, 2020 7 hours ago, Talltim said: Finding the last push pull service in BR might be harder. Which push pull service finished latest on 31st March 1997? The Kenny Belle? Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DY444 Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 7 hours ago, Talltim said: Finding the last push pull service in BR might be harder. Which push pull service finished latest on 31st March 1997? 42 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said: The Kenny Belle? Mike. The last Euston - Wolverhampton of the day would be my wild guess. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiftyfour fiftyfour Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 3 hours ago, DY444 said: The last Euston - Wolverhampton of the day would be my wild guess. That wasn't operated by BR on 31/03/97, it was operated by Virgin Trains since 3rd March. You'd need to identify which train operating unit that operated push-pull formations was the last to be privatised so it may have been the last Eus-Wvh on 02/03/97 as Gatwick Express, Anglia and East Coast Mainline had already left BR ownership. The Kenny Belle is highly unlikely as it was weekdays only and privatisation switches were early hours of Sunday morning. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted August 22, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 22, 2020 Its still going on TPE, Chiltern are two that come to mind 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 11 hours ago, The Johnster said: IIRC 1466 had a couple of outings In the early 70s on the Wallingford branch with one of Didcot’s trailers, and may have worked under it’s own steam between Didcot and Cholsey & Moulsford. Passengers were carried on the branch, but I would not like to be quoted as to whether the TRG was connected or the trailer was simply being propelled. There was a proposal at the time for the GWS to run regular services on the branch, which came to nothing. I think that is one I'm thinking of. There's colour film footage of it somewhere as well as mentions in magazines. Definitely used as a proper Push/Pull train. Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DY444 Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, fiftyfour fiftyfour said: That wasn't operated by BR on 31/03/97, it was operated by Virgin Trains since 3rd March. You'd need to identify which train operating unit that operated push-pull formations was the last to be privatised so it may have been the last Eus-Wvh on 02/03/97 as Gatwick Express, Anglia and East Coast Mainline had already left BR ownership. The Kenny Belle is highly unlikely as it was weekdays only and privatisation switches were early hours of Sunday morning. It definitely isn't the Kenny Belle because by 1997 the WLL service had been worked by 313s for a couple of years under NSE and anyway Silverlink started at the beginning of March. Edited August 22, 2020 by DY444 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 (edited) The last franchise to be let was ScotRail, but by then it didn't operate any push-pulls. So I think Intercity West Coast would have run the last state-operated push-pull before it passed to Virgin on 5 Jaunary 1997. Unless you count that the Class 68s on the Transpennine push-pulls are hired from DRS, which is ultimately government-owned. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companies_operating_trains_in_the_United_Kingdom#Defunct_operating_companies Edited August 22, 2020 by Edwin_m 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiftyfour fiftyfour Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 19 hours ago, Edwin_m said: The last franchise to be let was ScotRail, but by then it didn't operate any push-pulls. So I think Intercity West Coast would have run the last state-operated push-pull before it passed to Virgin on 5 Jaunary 1997. Unless you count that the Class 68s on the Transpennine push-pulls are hired from DRS, which is ultimately government-owned. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companies_operating_trains_in_the_United_Kingdom#Defunct_operating_companies Virgin didn't take over West Coast until early March 1997, the date quoted was the XC take over and they didn't operate any push-pull. The original question was about BR so it's probably legitimate to ignore any current operators which are temporarily underwritten by government, much as the Class 91's operated by East Coast after NXEC failed and by LNER after VTEC failed also don't fall under BR despite being directly state owned. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted August 23, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 23, 2020 When did 33/1 + TC last until? (Although if being pedantic, that may be classed as EMU + loco) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted August 23, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 23, 2020 18 minutes ago, keefer said: When did 33/1 + TC last until? (Although if being pedantic, that may be classed as EMU + loco) Silver link used one on Gospel oak barking about twenty years ago Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 18 minutes ago, keefer said: When did 33/1 + TC last until? (Although if being pedantic, that may be classed as EMU + loco) TC was unpowered, just happened to have cabs at either end to control the emu. So if anything they were unique - could control an EMU, a 33, a 74 and a 74. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 Definitely classed as EMUs. Class 442/438/491 depending on era. However it might be worth considering that in the quote they were talking about steam, not diesel or electric. It was in Steam Railway after all. Most readers of SR don't recognise diesels even exist. Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bécasse Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 28 minutes ago, woodenhead said: TC was unpowered, just happened to have cabs at either end to control the emu. So if anything they were unique - could control an EMU, a 33, a 74 and a 74. Or an 09. The Kenny Belle was occasionally worked by an 09 plus 4TC. 09s could work with emus too, I once saw one working a Hampton Court-Waterloo service when the power was off. It is also worth noting that the Gatwick Express (version I) wasn't a push-pull operation, the ex-HAP MLV conversion retained its motor bogie. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted August 23, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 23, 2020 10 minutes ago, bécasse said: Or an 09. The Kenny Belle was occasionally worked by an 09 plus 4TC. 09s could work with emus too, I once saw one working a Hampton Court-Waterloo service when the power was off. It is also worth noting that the Gatwick Express (version I) wasn't a push-pull operation, the ex-HAP MLV conversion retained its motor bogie. 09s had high level air pipes to couple to EMUs but the EMU or TC unit couldn't control the 09 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 28 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said: However it might be worth considering that in the quote they were talking about steam, not diesel or electric. It was in Steam Railway after all. Most readers of SR don't recognise diesels even exist. Which must come as quite a shock when they go to get the Royal Scot and find that not only is the train now a set of coaches with no visible smoking beast but also the Doric Arch has gone. Or their trip from Farringdon to Kings Cross to pick up the Flying Scotsman is purely undergroud now. But at least they still have the completely original Flying Scotsman to see on the mainline although sometimes they see an A1 that has a number that isn't in their Ian Allan 1959 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 Strange that no mention has been made of the articles that have appeared in the latest two issues of Railway Magazine ((July and August 2020) - BR’s Last Team Push-Pull Trains. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bécasse Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 2 hours ago, russ p said: 09s had high level air pipes to couple to EMUs but the EMU or TC unit couldn't control the 09 Oh yes it could, even if the Southern kept very quiet about it. As I said, 09s occasionally worked the Kenny Belle push-pull and the one I saw on a Hampton Court-Waterloo service was propelling the 4-EPB that provided the passenger accommodation. An 09 couldn't provide power for lighting (or heating) but neither could a 73 in diesel mode. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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