Where do I start with digital considering I'm not really into robbing banks

[signalnorth]

So thinking of jumping into digital control for the first time with a new micro layout 4x1 foot.  I'm attracted by sound (Diesels sound much better from what I've heard then steam so far) and so I'm thinking a small diesel shunter or perhaps a class 25 and maybe getting my existing JInty 'chipped up .'  (Is that even a term!! ?   And this stay alive feature that's available seems great in digital !   But what do I go out and buy in terms of control?    

 

Money is a factor as I wouldn't really want to pay out more than £200 for a controller.

 

Can anyone guide me down the right path please? Cheers!

 

enL

 

 

[kev]

A lot of systems out there simple starter set the Bachmann basic 10 button one often in the train set not bad but limited functions but a easy start into DCC ,  gaugemaster dco1 not to bad a system ,you will open a big can of worms on this one but plenty under your limit a quick google search will bring up a lot Digitrax, Nce,Lenz so look round and if you see one that you like ask on here for further help

[cravensdmufan]

I would get an NCE Powercab, around £160 for the complete 2amp kit, plenty of power for three locos on a small layout and expandable should you wish to build bigger in the future.  I've had mine for 9 years and it's been perfect for me.

 

Plus two good quality sound decoders for your diesel shunter and Class 25 (either Zimo or Loksound loaded with quality sounds, for example Digitrains, Legomanbiffo), around £120 each - both can be fitted with "stay alive" capacitors if required.  I use electrofrog turnouts and haven't needed them.

 

I'd keep turnout control analogue, using your existing DC power supply.

 

So for £400 for DCC you'd have all you need I reckon - including sound!

[jpendle]

Hmmm?

 

A typical sound decoder with a project loaded (unless you are talking Hornby TTS) is around 100 pounds, so quite a lot of money.

 

For the DCC system then you'll need one which allows you to control up to 28 DCC functions as a lot of sound projects use all this stuff.

For example, horns, flange squeal, brake dumps, sanders, coupling sounds, etc, etc.

 

A budget system won't allow this.

 

Regards,

 

John P

 

[cravensdmufan]

2 minutes ago, jpendle said:

For the DCC system then you'll need one which allows you to control up to 28 DCC functions as a lot of sound projects use all this stuff.

For example, horns, flange squeal, brake dumps, sanders, coupling sounds, etc, etc.

 

A budget system won't allow this.

 

Are you referring to controllers included in train sets?

 

My NCE Powercab (£160) system operates all sounds from Zimo and Loksound decoders.

 

I have 10 or 12 locos on the layout at any one time (but usually with sound only on a couple - more would do my head in!) and the system isn't overloaded. 

[Ron Ron Ron]

28 minutes ago, jpendle said:

.....A budget system won't allow this.

 

 

That would basically only include the Bachmann EZ DCC  and Hornby Select basic train set systems.

 

All these starter systems provide F0-F28 (29 functions)

MRC/Gaugemaster Prodigy Express (Squared) - approx. £180

NCE PowerCab - approx. £180

Digitrax DCS52 Zephyr Express - approx. £185

Roco z21 Start + MultiMaus - upwards from approx. £150

 

The Piko SmartControl Light - approx. £149, but can be found for as little as £120 - provides up to 24 functions.

 

 

.

[jpendle]

2 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

That would basically only include the Bachmann EZ DCC  and Hornby Select basic train set systems.

 

Mea culpa, my knowledge of DCC systems is not encyclopedic 

 

But yes, I was referring to the two above, but wasn't sure if any others fell into that category.

 

Regards,

 

John P

[pauliebanger]

4 hours ago, signalnorth said:

So thinking of jumping into digital control for the first time with a new micro layout 4x1 foot.  I'm attracted by sound (Diesels sound much better from what I've heard then steam so far) and so I'm thinking a small diesel shunter or perhaps a class 25 and maybe getting my existing JInty 'chipped up .'  (Is that even a term!! ?   And this stay alive feature that's available seems great in digital !   But what do I go out and buy in terms of control?    

 

Money is a factor as I wouldn't really want to pay out more than £200 for a controller.

 

Can anyone guide me down the right path please? Cheers!

 

enL

 

 

 

Whilst you will get best out of sound decoders on DCC, they will run well on DC analogue.

 

If you use ZIMO decoders on DC, most of the main sounds will operate correctly plus ZIMO decoders will also operate stay alive capacitors on DC too. (I believe that's unique to ZIMO).

 

See here

 

 

 

DCC will provide other benefits, however, so I'm not advocating one system over another. (If I were, I would very definitely be in the DCC camp - I've not use DC analogue since 1979).

 

For a DCC controller which will not surprise you later with things it cannot do or by having limited access to higher function keys ( why go to DCC sound with a controller that can only access up to F24 or even F20 in some cases), then the NCE PowerCab takes some beating at the sub £200 class. I has a range of upgrade options if you get into DCC and want a larger layout with more locos.

 

Best regards,

 

Paul

[signalnorth]

Ah right, now I didn't know that.

 

When you say 'other benefits' what might these be?
 

Thanks for the reply

[signalnorth]

50 minutes ago, pauliebanger said:

ZIMO

Very helpful replies!!!!  Thank you all. I will digest and come back tomorrow with a question or two if that's ok 

[lankyandy]

Another recommendation for the nce powercab. Works well and can be expanded and still used if your requirements grow hugely. 
As far as decoders go I have found zimo, esu  and d&h to all be really good both for sound and loco control. I have a variety of steam and diesel but as has been said before Lego biffoman, Digitrains and  locoman sounds can all be personally recommended by me. I’m sure others are equally good I just haven’t used them as yet. All give great service with a huge honest knowledge. 
 Other benefits I have found is simple wiring, smoother running and more options for running locos and trains. What’s great is I have expanded from a double track mainline layout to add in a branch line and 009 as well. Simply wire them in through a circuit breaker and off you go again.  As far as track cleaning goes I haven’t noticed a difference from analogue control.
I started with a couple of sound locos and the rest just Dcc. Over the last 18 months I have converted about 25 further locos to sound. Yes it’s expensive but it really does add something to the layout and in my opinion is worth the 100-150 per loco. 

 If you want a fantastic ready to do diesel the Sutton loco works class 24 is fabulous out of the box. No speaker or chip upgrades required. Few on eBay as well a bit cheaper. 
just my thoughts but I have switched too Dcc sound and spent my money. I have not regretted it once and feel it adds so much more, making it good value. 

[Gilbert]

My advice would be NCE powercab.

Purchase from one of the main DCC specialist retailers - as after sales service and advice is a valuable part of what they do.

I too would vote for as much sound as you can afford

[grriff]

There is another option if you are prepared to be a bit more 'teccy' and that is to use  a SPROG command station linked to  a PC running JRMI. It's a cheaper option than NCE if you you have a computer. I prefer it to my neighbour's NCE system because I have a big screen and can use a smartphone for control. If you can, visit a retailer who can demonstrate the various systems. 

If you are prepared to build kits, check out MERG (www.merg.org.uk)

[johnb]

I started with an NCE system, the PowerCab, some ten years or more back and still use it, or rather them now. I have exhibited with a series of four layouts over that period without a failure. I usually exhibit six to ten times a year, until this year of course!!! Two layouts being US and two UK and have another two in the pipeline (one of each). I have not had a failure of the Powercab itself, only a couple of instances where the cable connection got badly wrenched in transit (bad packing up after a show) and the socket needed replacement. One was repaired professionally and the second I did myself pretty easily.

 

Being on the exhibition circuit I purchased a second unit quite early on, just in case. I still use the original unit. I have not found the need to change or upgrade. I only have smallish end to end layouts, the biggest being 13ft x 1ft

 

As for suppliers I have always had very good service from Kevin at Coastal DCC (no connection). I don't personally use sound, but have run friends sound locos without issue. As for decoders I have a variety, but in the last couple of years have settled with Zimo which I find good value and work well.

 

 

 

 

 

[devondynosoar118]

Another satisfied NCE Powercab user here. It’s done everything I have ever needed to do with it including programming lots of accessories and locos.

Don’t forget second hand, it’s out there if you persist and can save you money. 
Good quality decoders are a good investment. 
 

[CHAZ D]

Another one for the NCE

Once you get your head around the controls (simple but lots of options) very easy to use. You can use a usb interface (buy seperately) with JMRI (free download) to configure CV's and store them if they need reloading. Have had one for 2 years and now use a SB5 on the layout and swap the handset between the SB5 and the USB attached origonal command interface on a programming track.  It will give you 30 function controls, and a number of programmable macros for route setting. I have tried:-

Hornby Select   very little ability (OK for a trainset)

Hornby Elite   Better but limited seems to be for big Trainsets Upgradeability doutfull. Has a computer interface with macros

Hornby Elink  Better but limited seems to be for big Trainsets Upgradeability doutfull. Must use a computer interface. Has macros

Bachmann      Ok but too plasticky with helpfull pictures

Lenz                 Very nice Very expensive Not intuitive

[F-UnitMad]

13 hours ago, pauliebanger said:

DCC will provide other benefits, however

 

12 hours ago, signalnorth said:

Ah right, now I didn't know that.

 

When you say 'other benefits' what might these be?
 

Thanks for the reply

With DCC the sound & lights will be on at all times, not just when the loco is moving in DC (i.e. when power is applied).

 

Generally, wiring will be simplified, in terms of not having to include isolating sections or block control to allow more than one loco at a time on the layout. It won't be "just 2 wires" which was an early advertising slogan (for Hornby Zero1 if I recall correctly) but it will be simpler.

[Pete the Elaner]

14 hours ago, signalnorth said:

Ah right, now I didn't know that.

 

When you say 'other benefits' what might these be?
 

Thanks for the reply

 

I have not seen completely independent control of trains mentioned. I found this very addictive.

Being able to drive a train slowly to buffer up with another without having to determine section length before the track is laid. This expands to double heading locos into a depot then splitting them (or the same with multiple units in a platform).

Each loco/train can have acceleration/deceleration set independently (but it can be turned off if you really don't like it). Real trains stop very gradually & learning to drive a model one in the same way can be enjoyable.

 

If you are going down the sound route:

Leaving diesels idling may be something many dislike, but leaving them sitting there with their spirax valves going tick, tick, tick..

All sound projects have sounds other than the main engine sound which can be played independently: compressors, buffer clash, rail squeal & more significantly, horns.

On the acceleration issue, many sound projects now provide a braking feature. Deceleration can be set very low to simulate coasting (with an appropriate engine idling sound), then braking is performed by pressing/holding a button.

 

I really don't like controlling train speed directly with a dial. I find acceleration/coasting/braking much more realistic & enjoyable.

[Oldddudders]

Be aware that not every system 'feels' the same, despite them all following the same DCC protocols. Even within your budget, there are some very different configurations of throttle and command station. The best reason for buying from a specialist DCC dealer, as distinct from a big dealer who also sells DCC, is that they probably have a number of different systems available to demo. You will prefer this system to that, almost certainly. 

 

DCC systems don't really wear out unless abused, so your purchase is going to be with you for a long time, in fact every time you run a train. Make sure you buy one that you can enjoy, rather than one with loadsa features but awkward - to you - ergonomics. 

[devondynosoar118]

I would echo the above- get hands on with your choices first, it makes a big difference being able to try before you buy and everyone has their personal favourite handset or functions.

Like anything technical it’s YOU that has to operate and work it out so unless the system and it’s supporting community makes sense to you, it doesn’t matter what potential is there.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

21 hours ago, signalnorth said:

...Can anyone guide me down the right path please? ...

This is a hobby and should be fun. You want a control interface that falls under your hand so naturally that it is a pleasure to operate, because you will become unconsciously competent with it. (Compare to car control layouts, do some just work for you, and others are always awkward swine?) That's why it is a sound plan to get to a specialist retailer and have some hands on.

 

Try and think of the expenditure over time. My £200 DCC system spend - fast approaching twenty years ago - is now a very economical purchase.

[RobinofLoxley]

Would you mind if I piggy-backed onto this topic? I have the same basic question but my layout, (which I have just decided to re-model but thats another story) has about 2x 16M of double loop with passing loops, a reverse loop and extensive sidings. There are 40 points, all Seep PM2's - very basic. There are 12 locos at the moment, probably 10 available at any one time. All steam as my era is late 50's early 60's.    So for the sake of argument if I could operate 10 locos together, run all the points, and control 1 or 2 reversing loops (I have no turntable and not intention to get one) where would I be in terms of system spend?

 

One specific question - I have some Pullman coaches with operating lights - standard Hornby. How do these go on a DCC layout?

 

Thanks in advance

[ELTEL]

Having used the Gaugemaster Prodigy system for well over ten years, I can confirm as I have used in exhibitions for most of that period that it never let me down,

 

Only one negative is you are not able to run analogue chipped locos with the Gaugemaster system.

 

I decided to change to a NCE set up a couple  of years ago and of the two systems I would also recommend the NCE system and cost wise is very competitively priced.

 

Not sure where you live, but if Lincoln is a possibility then Digitrains offers you the opportunity to try all the major brands , and Jeremy and his wife will be able to answer your questions with no bias to any particular system.

 

No connection other than a satisfied customer.

 

Keep Safe 

 

Terry 

[Ron Ron Ron]

34 minutes ago, ELTEL said:

.....Only one negative is you are not able to run analogue chipped locos with the Gaugemaster system.....

 

"analogue chipped locos" ?

What does that mean Terry?

 

 

.

[Ron Ron Ron]

1 hour ago, RobinofLoxley said:

....So for the sake of argument if I could operate 10 locos together, run all the points, and control 1 or 2 reversing loops (I have no turntable and not intention to get one) where would I be in terms of system spend? .....

 

Without wanting to sound flippant, in terms of total spend, this is the proverbial "how long is a piece of string" scenario.

It could cost as little as a few hundred pounds, up to a thousand pounds or more, depending on what your exact requirements and wishes are and how you wish to implement them.

 

 

.