Where do I start with digital considering I'm not really into robbing banks

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

1 hour ago, RobinofLoxley said:

... specific question - I have some Pullman coaches with operating lights - standard Hornby. How do these go on a DCC layout?

Your coaches with lights will be fully lit when the DCC system is supplying track power. A decoder will be required to switch lights on and off via the DCC system. (Coaches don't yet come with DCC sockets so DIY is involved.)

[Chuffer Davies]

HI,

You will have gathered by now that there are lots of possibilities and as many options as there are contributors to this thread.  

 

Before you make a final decision can I encourage you to look at the the Digikeijs DR5000 command station which you can buy for around £150.  This comes with a 5 amp power supply as standard and is about as flexible a system as you could possibly want.  We (Shipley MRS) spent a long time investigating alternative systems for use across the club's various layouts and this system not inly ticked all the boxes we felt it was also incredible value for money.   It is easy to set up so is good as a starter system, but it can also be used as a full function heavy duty solution so as you become more knowledgeable it will still meet your needs.

 

Whilst this does not come with a controller/handset as standard it does include its own wireless interface that can be connected to a tablet or a mobile phone which, as long as you have one of these devices, will give you a free handset to get you started.  I would recommend down-loading the free Roco Z21 mobile software.   

 

If you are into computers this system also comes with a USB interface for both Wndows and  Apple devices.  The computer then gives you a whole new set of options to look into as well as allowing you to use the computer as another handset.  

 

Later on if you so wish you can buy a proper full function handset such as the Roco Maltimaus.  This plugs directly into the command station, or you can opt for the wireless version if you prefer.

 

Regards,

 

Frank

 

 

[dpgibbons]

If you are moderately confident with PCs and soldering then MERG's DCC controller running JMRI is hard to beat in terms of cost or functionality. It's a solder-by-numbers kit that requires hardly any electronics knowledge. 

[ELTEL]

10 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

"analogue chipped locos" ?

What does that mean Terry?

 

 

.

What I should have said was....

 

With the Gaugemaster Prodigy you are unable to run/control a locomotive that does not have DCC chip fitted.

 

As I understand that with the NCE system you are able to run/control a locomotive that does not have a chip fitted but does have the blanking plug fitted.

 

Terry 

[Oldddudders]

11 minutes ago, ELTEL said:

With the Gaugemaster Prodigy you are unable to run/control a locomotive that does not have DCC chip fitted.

 

As I understand that with the NCE system you are able to run/control a locomotive that does not have a chip fitted but does have the blanking plug fitted. 

I think in the early days of DCC most systems allowed an analogue loco on address 00 - it was more important when chipped locos were all homebuilt and scarcer. I still make use of it to check a new arrival moves in both directions, but not much more, before adding a decoder. 

[RobinofLoxley]

11 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

Your coaches with lights will be fully lit when the DCC system is supplying track power. A decoder will be required to switch lights on and off via the DCC system. (Coaches don't yet come with DCC sockets so DIY is involved.)

Thanks. I guessed this would be the case and thought I would store the coaches on an isolated siding. I have room for all the rolling stock I have to be on-track.

 

I wondered how much power the coaches would take when active, in relation to the total available and how many things might be running at the same time. I havnt had a problem on my existing layout with a 5-coach train - there could be two of those.

[Oldddudders]

I have not found LED coach lighting to make a noticeable difference. I have run an HO California Zephyr with all 9 coaches lit and three diesels, and other locos have still been responsive as usual. And my Digitrax DCS 100 command station has always been run on the N-gauge setting, as recommended by the manufacturer. 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

5 minutes ago, RobinofLoxley said:

...I wondered how much power the coaches would take when active, in relation to the total available and how many things might be running at the same time. I havnt had a problem on my existing layout with a 5-coach train - there could be two of those.

I started with a 'full system' of nominal 4.5A output, and still have not required more power nearly twenty years on: a dozen can motored locos running hauling full size trains, two fully lit trains, several DMU sets with lights. (But I don't use sound, which is current hungry. There's only one old open frame motored mechanism on the layout now, takes about 400mA compared to 150-200mA of the can motored mechanisms with 60 wagon or 12 coach loads.)

 

One asset of a full system is adjustable track voltage. My layouts have always been main line settings, and I expect full line speed on the through express traffic. Some DCC systems that I tried just didn't have the output to match what standard 12V output DC controllers achieved, and an ECML pacific that will only make scale for 55mph is NBG.  Add to this that some of the RTR OO locos currently on sale ''just won't do it' with 12V at the motor terminals, but by increasing the DCC system voltage output to deliver 15V at the motor terminals they will all achieve scale for the 90mph line limit (to date at least, always the risk that another manufacturer might choose to emulate DJM's crawly drive ...).

[Ron Ron Ron]

13 hours ago, ELTEL said:

....Only one negative is you are not able to run analogue chipped locos with the Gaugemaster system.......

 

12 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

"analogue chipped locos" ?

What does that mean Terry?

 

1 hour ago, ELTEL said:

What I should have said was....

 

With the Gaugemaster Prodigy you are unable to run/control a locomotive that does not have DCC chip fitted.

 

As I understand that with the NCE system you are able to run/control a locomotive that does not have a chip fitted but does have the blanking plug fitted.

 

Terry 

 

2 points.

 

1. It isn't a "negative" if there's no facility to operate an analogue loco.

Rather, that's a "positive", for reasons well argued and documented on the forum over the years.

 

2. The NCE system doesn't allow analogue operation either.  Another "plus".

 

 

.

[tarifa]

11 hours ago, dpgibbons said:

If you are moderately confident with PCs and soldering then MERG's DCC controller running JMRI is hard to beat in terms of cost or functionality. It's a solder-by-numbers kit that requires hardly any electronics knowledge. 

But you do need to be a member of MERG.

Mike

[jcm@gwr]

8 minutes ago, tarifa said:

But you do need to be a member of MERG.

Mike

 

Even adding in the cost of 2 years membership, it still means the cost of their 

DCC setup is good value, plus, with a few extra 'magic' bits, you can run it all

from a smart phone or tablet!

[Oldddudders]

1 minute ago, jcm@gwr said:

plus, with a few extra 'magic' bits, you can run it all

from a smart phone or tablet!

Clever - but that isn't a plus for all of us. 

[jcm@gwr]

21 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

Clever - but that isn't a plus for all of us. 

 

Fair point, and I wasn't trying to push it, just making people aware of the flexibility of the product,

it could be something that might be desirable later, and therefore worth considering.

Updating is normally cheaper, and easier, than replacing.

[Pete the Elaner]

3 hours ago, RobinofLoxley said:

I wondered how much power the coaches would take when active, in relation to the total available and how many things might be running at the same time. I havnt had a problem on my existing layout with a 5-coach train - there could be two of those.

 

NCE Powercab has a built-in ammeter. A small layout such as the one originally suggested will not draw more than the system can provide (unless you are doing something unusual with it) & if you do later want to use it on another layout, it can be upgraded with a booster.

Starting with the 'base' Powercab & upgrading as & when you need is not a false economy.

[ELTEL]

2 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

 

 

2 points.

 

1. It isn't a "negative" if there's no facility to operate an analogue loco.

Rather, that's a "positive", for reasons well argued and documented on the forum over the years.

 

2. The NCE system doesn't allow analogue operation either.  Another "plus".

 

 

.

 

2. I stand corrected as I had been led to believe that it could 

 

Terry 

 

 

 

 

[fezza]

I've had more than ten years' service from a Bachmann dynamics wireless set. I don't have a huge system (20 dcc sound locos and dmus) but that's enough for me right now and it works well. If you want to go down the route of dcc signaling and auto route setting you'd need somerhing better but it depends on your ultimate ambition. There is a lot to be said for starting simple - you can always trade up later. 

[fezza]

I would also avoid anything Hornby TTS - I've had nothing but trouble. It's cheap for a reason. Buying better but fewer items is more satisfying in my view. 

[Zunnan]

I've used the Gaugemaster system for 12 years or so (receipt says Nov 2007) and have gone through several cheapy trainset DC controllers (mostly Bachmann) used for running in and testing purposes in that same time. I've thrown multi-diesel American lashups in the garden at it in the past as well as an LGB 0-4-4-0 IV K under the Christmas tree for good measure, so my Prodigy hasn't lead an easy life. But it keeps on trucking!

 

Mines of an age that it doesn't seem to support the full complement of functions provided nowdays, but it still does the job and those higher number functions are generally assigned things I'd never bother with anyway. The biggest failing, and one which really does grate on me just about every time I am programming and speed matching a consist, is the complete lack of CV settings readback on the prog track. Its supposed to be able to read back, but mine never has, and won't even read back a short address. I seem to remember a few people having issues with the read back way back then, and I chose to live with it rather than get it replaced. The memory stack also doesn't help with consisting, more specifically deleting a consist. It recalls your previous consists and things up somewhat if you don't also clear the memory stack when you delete a consist. I would assume that newer iterations of the Prodigy has addressed this, I know the later instruction manuals for them shows them supporting up to F28; which my museum piece does not.

 

To be honest, I think mines just being awkward because its an old git, but I prefer the feel of the handset which was the main decision maker when I first dipped my toes in DCC. And even with its shortcomings mine still does what it says on the tin (mostly); but EVERYONE else at the club swears by NCE.

[PhilH]

Another vote for NCE Powercab, and the flexibility of control which dcc brings, but not necessarily a vote for dcc sound. A purely personal opinion...I have two layouts, one  U.S. themed on which all locos, , steam and diesel, are sound equipped. Sounds like an ideal scenario but after a surprisingly short time, if you are just in a room with the layout and the sound has nowhere to dissipate as in an exhibition hall, boy, does it start to get on your (my) nerves...so more often than not they all get turned down to barely discernible levels or off all together.

 

On the other hand I made a lockdown layout to accomodate my Southern stock, on this I simply play at a low volume a CD of Southern steam, not specific to the locos or movements on the layout but just to provide a bit of atmosphere, and as it's supposedly a small country terminus I play on my phone one of the many ambient countryside sound files which are available from, for instance,  youtube. Together they seem to make a pleasant, almost soothing background to the layout which I find most relaxing and reminds me of long gone summer days spent trainspotting.

 

Seemingly it's not only me...visitors to the layout have remarked on what a pleasant ambience this creates.

Edited September 2, 2020 by PhilH

[Zunnan]

1 hour ago, PhilH said:

...one  U.S. themed on which all locos, , steam and diesel, are sound equipped. Sounds like an ideal scenario but after a surprisingly short time, if you are just in a room with the layout and the sound has nowhere to dissipate as in an exhibition hall, boy, does it start to get on your (my) nerves...

 

Seconded. Start up one or two 567 or 645s on low volume and they're fine pottering about switching at home where I'm never more than 7 feet away. Start up a 4 unit lashup on top of that and I think I'd rather listen to the neighbours putting up shelving all day long. Worse still, in the exhibition hall, having your layout located next door to a US layout with sound turned on and up all day long. A close second is the typical UK diesel MPD plank with sound, and the obligatory pair of class 20s screeching away all day long...That is a short ride to a padded cell, my tinnitus sounds better after the first 30 minutes has elapsed with an entire day (or two!) left to put up with! I too much prefer low sound on a single train in service or no sound at all and have background ambience playing.

[fezza]

Sound is a very personal thing. Personally I turn up the thrash until I feel the need to open the bedroom window and flail... 

 

But maybe that's just me... 

[Sol]

I have heard that sound should only be heard upto 3ft / 1 metre away from the driver so not to get on others nerves..

[Junctionmad]

Nothing better then a clatter of 2-stroke EMD diesels at full bore , lovely lovely , on our big O gauge we had 20 diesels all with “ big” sound running ( the booster registers 9.6A ) 

 

what what did you say , can’t hear a thing over this clatter  sweet 

 

Railways are big greasy noisy places 

Edited September 2, 2020 by Junctionmad

[Junctionmad]

16 hours ago, fezza said:

Sound is a very personal thing. Personally I turn up the thrash until I feel the need to open the bedroom window and flail... 

 

But maybe that's just me... 

we seriously pi$$ed off our fellow exhibitors at one event !!! 

[Chuffer Davies]

I think we might be starting to go off topic with all these discussions about sound effects.  Sound chips add significant cost and the original premise was that Signalnorth didn't want to have to rob a bank to implement DCC.   Have we managed to provide the advice originally requested or have we put Signalnorth off DCC altogether?

 

Frank