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GW Branch Line (III) - a Portable Layout Puzzle


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Keith, this is really looking interesting.

 

I would say to lengthen the spur through the goods shed so there's room to move wagons through the shed as they are unloaded.  This would probably have been done manually between goods trains, or perhaps by borrowing the passenger engine, however engines were not normally allowed into the shed.

 

You could install a turntable on the siding/headshunt coming off the inner loop by curving it away from the engine shed.  I think you could still get away with a 36" x 18" base board.  The next board could then be 36" with 18" and 24" ends.

 

 The short headshunt opposite the station building could be used to drop the guard's van during shunting operations.  Although the train would probably have to back up past the loop points in order to get to the goods shed loop for shunting.

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12 minutes ago, Jeff Smith said:

Keith, this is really looking interesting.

 

I would say to lengthen the spur through the goods shed so there's room to move wagons through the shed as they are unloaded.  This would probably have been done manually between goods trains, or perhaps by borrowing the passenger engine, however engines were not normally allowed into the shed.

 

You could install a turntable on the siding/headshunt coming off the inner loop by curving it away from the engine shed.  I think you could still get away with a 36" x 18" base board.  The next board could then be 36" with 18" and 24" ends.

 

 The short headshunt opposite the station building could be used to drop the guard's van during shunting operations.  Although the train would probably have to back up past the loop points in order to get to the goods shed loop for shunting.


Thanks Jeff - we’ll spotted re: the Goods Shed Siding (it was longer in version 1 - it wasn’t shortened deliberately).

 

Agree that converting the Carriage Siding is probably the only way to get in a Turntable without a major redesign.  The other option would be to keep more of a curve at the end of the line (as in Version 1) to see if one would fit on the outside, closer to where it was.  I think a 55’ turntable should scale to 8.68” in 1:76 scale.

 

There was a short, undefined siding at the far end of the Goods Loop, which is where I got the idea for my short stub siding.

 

Thanks, Keith.

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10 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

As Fairford seems to keep coming to the fore I've added below the Service Timetables (STT - GWR speak for WTT) for October 1910 and September 1948 - so they are both the Winter service.  The ones below are of course readily available online.  While I can't easily copy them I have the Summer period STTs for 1891, 1901, and 1938 in my collection so can possibly answer queries should they arise.

 

The 1948 tables will enlarge if you click on them.

 

October 1910

1910.jpg.6026e78900ab11e5c9b80f66df92ad2f.jpg

 

 

September 1948

418278609_1948down.jpg.8fc6a5e3f6ab754fe8a6ac7fe1437191.jpg

 

 1851535464_Sept1948Up.jpg.b52aa40f7992e4ee694384dd4ac53f63.jpg

 

 

 

 

 


Amongst other things, these timetables show the later addition of Carterton Station.  It appears some trains terminated there (presumably for the airfield)?

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Those timetables are fascinating. For example I'd never before seen the idea that a parcels train would shunt to the other platform for unloading once it's crossed the one going the other way. I doubt that happens much on a model.

 

Edit: can't see a corresponding up working of a parcels train (makes sense, no large sources of parcels on the line), so presumably those vehicles would have been added to a passenger train?

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13 hours ago, Danemouth said:

And another station plan very similar to Danemouth - except the carriage siding in your plan is a bay platform  on Danemouth :)

 

Cheers,

 

Dave

 

To be compared to Danemouth is a good thing :).  I did give serious thought to asking if I could copy Danemouth, but the dimensions didn't quite work out with my scenic scenic space in an L-shape.

 

Although I'm only sketching in a three-track Fiddle Yard, this is just for starters anyway, and I'd expect to be looking at running a four-train schedule (with Cassettes there's no limit in the same way as other Fiddle Yards of course).

 

One thing I did want to ask about - you mention in your thread previous problems with a 90 degree hidden curve in a previous version: these layout ideas do rather depend on the hidden R2 curve.  Any advice?

 

Thanks, Keith.

 

Edited by Keith Addenbrooke
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I've continued looking for a comparator to put next to my Fairford, but not yet come up with something that is quite as distinctive.  I had a 2nd look at Looe following the suggestion by @Kris.  It's a bit similar to Fairford - platform first - but has the unusual siding with both the Engine Shed and Carriage Shed, as well as an onward exchange for Goods wagons to the Quay sidings.

 

I'm still not sure it would work in my space though - there'd need to be room to shunt coach sets beyond the points to get them into the Carriage Shed (I presume they didn't go through the Engine Shed), for which I don't have enough room.  So I went back and had another go with Hemyock:

 

Return to Hemyock:

 

507641045_Hemyock2.jpg.ddbee3897106d55fb0044c7289caf76c.jpg

 

Viewed this way up it does make more sense.  I am partial to the American Short Lines the track plan still reminds me of: this is something I did, very strictly just for fun, back in May: Shunting on the Sagatukett River RR .

 

Here, shunting the Carriage Siding with anything more than a single coach, which is what the line usually used, would very quickly become a Shunting Puzzle: if anything, the Goods Shed was actually closer.

 

Although it has basically the same number of points as Fairford (as I've drawn it) and fills exactly the same space of course, there is less track overall, and this gave me the insight I was after, with regards to Fairford.

 

I'm not sure whether or not I would ever build Hemyock - it's one of those ideas where a small-scale cardboard mock-up would be well worth doing before committing to a project I guess.  But I'll explain what it made me think in a following post...

Edited by Keith Addenbrooke
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12 hours ago, Jeff Smith said:

A lot of people only know where they are by reading the station name board 

A back scene of course helps with the illusion but is an added complication with a portable layout.

 

Arguably a backscene is quite useful on a portable layout as (provided the baseboards are paired) one can be stacked upside down on top of the other with the backscenes as protection.

 

They can cause complications when exhibiting a home layout though as the layout either needs to be operated from the front (which means the operator blocks the spectators' view) or the control panel needs to be detachable and capable of moving to the other side).

 

I certainly wouldn't rule out the possibility of exhibiting it even if not as a regular on the exhibition circuit - Stationmaster hinted that you are a 'man of the cloth' and I know many churches partake in fundraising activities either for their own fabric or on behalf of other charities. A model railway is an interesting addition to a church bazaar/village fete (I've taken my own to several), and I know of one church that raises around £2000 a year for its organ fund through putting on exhibitions (better than putting on the Mikado again!)

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On Building Fairford:

 

I've mentioned previously I'd hoped to have baseboards built and track laid on a layout by the end of the Summer.  I had some free time as a result of not travelling about, even though I have been working since March, and took on some new and additional things.  It hasn't proved possible though, and I've had to re-visit my ideas twice, so any build will be much slower now; I always have more time in the Summer, this year even more so.

 

Why is this relevant to Layout Planning?

 

Looking at my take on Fairford, I'm quite amazed that a reasonable representation of one of my favourite Branch Line Termini is possible in the very compact space I can use.  It was only last Tuesday - exactly a week ago - that I was asking if the space I'd been offered was usable at all.  Although there isn't room for the "free run" I'd originally focused on, this can be traded for the Terminus of a longer Branch Line with an interesting timetable where multiple trains would be seen (there could legitimately be three engines in the Station).

 

If I redraw it slightly like this I even have the points (and can now probably get the Flextrack) I need:

 

1554917128_Fairford7.jpg.650d688a0ddfa5f8fd9b2fd083f7a6d5.jpg

 

What am I waiting for?  Looking again at Hemyock, and noting how the points fall across the possible baseboard joints (as highlighted by @RJS1977), it does strike me that - rather than being the quick and easy portable layout I'd imagined, this will be, for me at least, an ambitious build with a lot to get right:

  1. There could be 8 or 9 tracks crossing baseboard joints, mostly curved (though points can be avoided).
  2. I need a robust yet lightweight way to support the desk overhang (the bed is the easy bit now).
  3. I've never attempted an open-top 6mm ply baseboard (which is the obvious lightweight recommendation).
  4. It must be easily assembled and disassembled when needed - like an exhibition layout (as noted).
  5. I'll need to make a set of Cassettes - at least 4: there is only room for a small Conventional Fiddle Yard.
  6. Wiring.

At the very start of my GW Adventure, I noted that: "I need to get something up and running quickly and easily (so I don’t lose interest)" (May 19th).  My review of Hemyock has left me wondering if I could be biting off too much - or if it will all take too long.  Like many of us, I don't have time - and certainly don't have funds - to waste.

 

My intention now is to take a few days to think things through carefully - I've plenty to do this week anyway.  I'm really appreciating the interest and advice that's got me a long way, and very quickly; as always, thank you to all.  Keith.

Edited by Keith Addenbrooke
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8 minutes ago, RJS1977 said:

 

Arguably a backscene is quite useful on a portable layout as (provided the baseboards are paired) one can be stacked upside down on top of the other with the backscenes as protection.

 

They can cause complications when exhibiting a home layout though as the layout either needs to be operated from the front (which means the operator blocks the spectators' view) or the control panel needs to be detachable and capable of moving to the other side).

 

I certainly wouldn't rule out the possibility of exhibiting it even if not as a regular on the exhibition circuit - Stationmaster hinted that you are a 'man of the cloth' and I know many churches partake in fundraising activities either for their own fabric or on behalf of other charities. A model railway is an interesting addition to a church bazaar/village fete (I've taken my own to several), and I know of one church that raises around £2000 a year for its organ fund through putting on exhibitions (better than putting on the Mikado again!)

 

Thank you - a good backscene is a very good idea: the layout will be in the centre of a room I've been loaned, so it will be surrounded by a lot of other furniture and stuff (and I really won't want to knock things off the layout).

 

You are correct as to my vocation - it was relevant to mention my job in the previous thread exploring the Cellar as an option (in my case, it isn't), as I'm neither the owner of the property nor, in the legal sense, a tenant here.

 

Good point about fund-raising - from the Model Railway perspective, having a layout at a Fair can also promote the hobby of course, as a general point.

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11 hours ago, Zomboid said:

Those timetables are fascinating. For example I'd never before seen the idea that a parcels train would shunt to the other platform for unloading once it's crossed the one going the other way. I doubt that happens much on a model.

 

Edit: can't see a corresponding up working of a parcels train (makes sense, no large sources of parcels on the line), so presumably those vehicles would have been added to a passenger train?

Sorry to digress somewhat.

 

The Parcels Train is shown to turn back at Carterton and return to Oxford as a passenger train so unless it had dropped any vans at Witney (for which there was a good reason - see below) it would go back in the same formation as it had come out.  The nearest Oxford Station Working Book I have to that date is for the Summer of 1947 and in that service the train was also described as a Parcels Train and it conveyed a Parvan MX (off the 00.20 ex Paddn) attached to 3 coach branch set 73s plus on Mondays only an additional Brake Compo and a 3rd.  The Parvan must have been detached at Witney because it is not shown in the formation of the return working.

 

There was of course a considerable source of parcels traffic at Witney - one reason why the rump of the branch to Witney survived for some time after the closure of Fairford and the end of passenger traffic.

And yes the goods shed does perhaps need a slight bit of room beyond to work wagons through although probably only for one or two - they would be moved using a pinch bar.

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Back to layout design- the fiddle yard.

 

My only practical experience was building a three track sector plate.  This gives better length in a limited space but requires a central track entry, you would have to tighten up your curve or start the curve earlier.  Both sector plates and open ended fiddle yards require that you handle locos to move to the other end of the train.  You could have a train turntable but this limits you to only one track and takes up a lot of room.  Of course if you have sufficient length you can have a series of loops allowing you to run around as per the real thing!  I have no experience of cassettes but think in lifting them there would be a danger of trains falling off rails.

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33 minutes ago, Jeff Smith said:

Back to layout design- the fiddle yard.

 

My only practical experience was building a three track sector plate.  This gives better length in a limited space but requires a central track entry, you would have to tighten up your curve or start the curve earlier.  Both sector plates and open ended fiddle yards require that you handle locos to move to the other end of the train.  You could have a train turntable but this limits you to only one track and takes up a lot of room.  Of course if you have sufficient length you can have a series of loops allowing you to run around as per the real thing!  I have no experience of cassettes but think in lifting them there would be a danger of trains falling off rails.


Thanks Jeff.  The key thing for whatever scheme I go for is to limit the time I need to spend operating the Fiddle Yard - most of the layout designs I draw don’t have a Fiddle Yard, or just US style ‘Staging’ loops which are generally more passive and don’t involve any shuffling.
 

With regards to Cassettes, there are a variety of approaches used: some have a short piece for the engine, and a separate longer piece for the rest of the train, so the loco gets turned round but carriages can appear facing the same way they left (as is usual - at least in the UK).  It makes it easier to swap engines onto different trains.

 

Brake Vans for Goods trains are a separate consideration - a Goods Train cassette could be turned round - most wagons look the same from both sides, and the operator probably imagines they are different wagons to the ones that left, so the order is less important.

 

Most cassette designs have good sides as part of the construction - with slot in end pieces to cover all eventualities.

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10 minutes ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

the loco gets turned round but carriages can appear facing the same way they left (as is usual - at least in the UK).  It makes it easier to swap engines onto different trains

How did the GWR form their trains? [A fixed Southern carriage set would be something like BTK CK BTK with the brake compartments at the outer end so reversing the whole set as you suggest wouldn't have a noticeable impact. Additional vehicles like a CCT might need intervention though.]

 

Edit: If I could use strike through on a mobile I would...

 

Of course the corridor changes side doesn't it, so a 180 would have a very noticeable impact.

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2 hours ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:


whatever scheme I go for is to limit the time I need to spend operating the Fiddle Yard - 

 

If the R2 curve was 135 degrees rather than 90 degrees, could you have a turntable fiddleyard diagonally across the room?

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2 hours ago, Zomboid said:

How did the GWR form their trains? [A fixed Southern carriage set would be something like BTK CK BTK with the brake compartments at the outer end so reversing the whole set as you suggest wouldn't have a noticeable impact. Additional vehicles like a CCT might need intervention though.]

 

Edit: If I could use strike through on a mobile I would...

 

Of course the corridor changes side doesn't it, so a 180 would have a very noticeable impact.

The Fairford branch had its own sets (at least one of which was three coaches in 1947 and there was a working of a Q Set down the branch as well in  that year (and no doubt in other years).  In 1941 - so possibly affected by wartime operational conditions? - the two Fairford sets 73a and 73b were both formed with a pair of Brake Compos as London Division B Sets. (Which were not the same as the things many modellers think of as a B Set) 

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39 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

If the R2 curve was 135 degrees rather than 90 degrees, could you have a turntable fiddleyard diagonally across the room?


Interesting thought - I’d need to make sure that there was nothing on our daughter’s desk or cupboard to get sideswiped.  The turntable Fiddle Yard is a great concept - I’m not sure if I’d be up to making one though, especially a lightweight one - but should definitely be considered for schemes of this size, especially when not against a wall (as here).  Thanks, Keith.

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1 hour ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:


Interesting thought - I’d need to make sure that there was nothing on our daughter’s desk or cupboard to get sideswiped.  The turntable Fiddle Yard is a great concept - I’m not sure if I’d be up to making one though, especially a lightweight one - but should definitely be considered for schemes of this size, especially when not against a wall (as here).  Thanks, Keith.

 

My variation on that is based on a design which appeared in one of CJF's plan books, which he attributed to Peter Denny (there's been a whole discussion on another thread as to whether or not that attribution is correct.

 

The fiddle yard in my case is essentially an 8" x 4' board, with four parallel tracks (dimensions and number of tracks can of course be varied within reason - I wouldn't suggest going much longer than 4'). The board has a pair of overhead handles, each about 8" from either end, and fold-down end stops (like bow doors on a ferry!) and sits on a table slightly lower than the main layout so that the rail levels are flush. The board is fed from a fan of pointwork on the main layout (mainly because I have an ongoing ambition to automate it in due course) but could equally be made to slide in the manner of a traverser. The fiddle yard is attached to the layout by a detachable cable, with another cable loose at the other end (an improvement on this is to have sockets built into the framing of the fiddle yard rather than trailing cables).

 

In operation, the end stop furthest from the layout is in the down position to stop trains falling off the end, and the stop nearest the layout is raised. Four trains run off the fiddle yard, four take their place.  The end stop at the layout end is lowered, the cable disconnected, then the board pushed about an inch from the main layout and one end is then swung out into the room. The other end is slid along the table, and the free end swung back in so that the fiddle yard has been reversed. The tracks are lined up, the cable is reconnected, the end stop is raised and off we go again.

 

This turns the whole train, which I don't mind as it keeps the brake van at the back of goods trains and allows me to use different roof boards on both sides of the coaches. The only snag is that tank engines get turned as well!

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Hi Keith,

Suggestion regarding supports and cantilevering over the bed and desk:

2123500877_KA17a.png.c44c8e469dd7359ffffff2e86ada4ed8.png

 

Use 4 of those cheap, lightweight, folding work stands:

1956107831_KA17b.png.bf6a6632b8d2bf3e7be7e2993b1c7219.png

 

Place 4 beams on top:

1517611931_KA17c.png.25065ed51fedaabd05e9396bff8d7d5a.png

The two long beams at the top are hinged in the middle. They are connected by cross pieces and hinges with L-shaped removable pins. Use as many cross pieces as you like, possibly some diagonals for rigidity.

(Notice that I've shown the two long beams extending further over the bed than the original envelope.)

 

Baseboard modules on top:

1711364570_KA17d.png.70907fd73f05f0ca9b5940bf84becd60.png

The three main scenic baseboards in this drawing are all the same size, 22in by 44in. On the left one of the long boards and the smaller hidden curve board are bolted together at the joint to support each other.

 

Edited by Harlequin
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39 minutes ago, RJS1977 said:

 

My variation on that is based on a design which appeared in one of CJF's plan books, which he attributed to Peter Denny (there's been a whole discussion on another thread as to whether or not that attribution is correct.

 

The fiddle yard in my case is essentially an 8" x 4' board, with four parallel tracks (dimensions and number of tracks can of course be varied within reason - I wouldn't suggest going much longer than 4'). The board has a pair of overhead handles, each about 8" from either end, and fold-down end stops (like bow doors on a ferry!) and sits on a table slightly lower than the main layout so that the rail levels are flush. The board is fed from a fan of pointwork on the main layout (mainly because I have an ongoing ambition to automate it in due course) but could equally be made to slide in the manner of a traverser. The fiddle yard is attached to the layout by a detachable cable, with another cable loose at the other end (an improvement on this is to have sockets built into the framing of the fiddle yard rather than trailing cables).

 

In operation, the end stop furthest from the layout is in the down position to stop trains falling off the end, and the stop nearest the layout is raised. Four trains run off the fiddle yard, four take their place.  The end stop at the layout end is lowered, the cable disconnected, then the board pushed about an inch from the main layout and one end is then swung out into the room. The other end is slid along the table, and the free end swung back in so that the fiddle yard has been reversed. The tracks are lined up, the cable is reconnected, the end stop is raised and off we go again.

 

This turns the whole train, which I don't mind as it keeps the brake van at the back of goods trains and allows me to use different roof boards on both sides of the coaches. The only snag is that tank engines get turned as well!


Thank you - I’ve seen several drawings of this (by CJF), and photos of Peter Denny using with his, but I’d not heard of in use today: the disadvantage compared to a train turntable (that works like a fully rotating sector plate) is that you still need space for a fan of points on entry, but the advantage is that you can run a full operating sequence between turns - and if one of your trains is an Autocoach or DMU / EMU you can have extra moves between turns anyway I guess.

 

I like the idea of different name boards - some even go as far as different liveries or Engine numbers: if it looks like a different train it gets round the problem Zomboid spotted of corridors changing sides:

 

5 hours ago, Zomboid said:

How did the GWR form their trains? [A fixed Southern carriage set would be something like BTK CK BTK with the brake compartments at the outer end so reversing the whole set as you suggest wouldn't have a noticeable impact. Additional vehicles like a CCT might need intervention though.]

 

Edit: If I could use strike through on a mobile I would...

 

Of course the corridor changes side doesn't it, so a 180 would have a very noticeable impact.

 

On the Fairford Branch, tank engines did get turned - hence @Harlequin’s encouragement to include a turntable.  There was even a small turntable at Ashburton at one time I believe.

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I was thinking that you could turn the whole train, including the coaches and it still appear that the coaches are the same way round. If the train were a pair of BCKs back to back then that might work, if there's a CK in the middle then the corridor on that will change sides so it won't work.

 

Wasn't thinking of locos in particular.

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On 01/09/2020 at 21:01, Harlequin said:

Hi Keith,

Suggestion regarding supports and cantilevering over the bed and desk:

2123500877_KA17a.png.c44c8e469dd7359ffffff2e86ada4ed8.png

 

Use 4 of those cheap, lightweight, folding work stands:

1956107831_KA17b.png.bf6a6632b8d2bf3e7be7e2993b1c7219.png

 

Place 4 beams on top:

1517611931_KA17c.png.25065ed51fedaabd05e9396bff8d7d5a.png

The two long beams at the top are hinged in the middle. They are connected by cross pieces and hinges with L-shaped removable pins. Use as many cross pieces as you like, possibly some diagonals for rigidity.

(Notice that I've shown the two long beams extending further over the bed than the original envelope.)

 

Baseboard modules on top:

1711364570_KA17d.png.70907fd73f05f0ca9b5940bf84becd60.png

The three main scenic baseboards in this drawing are all the same size, 22in by 44in. On the left one of the long boards and the smaller hidden curve board are bolted together at the joint to support each other.

 


Perfect timing, thankyou - I was just discussing the overhang and need for legs (try saying that correctly after a few pints.

 

I especially like the way this sets up a stable framework for the baseboards before they are brought into the room.  Once it is all set up, I’d have to lean very hard on the far corner at the bed end to get enough push to topple it all over, as the counterbalance runs the whole way along the layout (if I’m following correctly), and it would be quite hard to lean too hard on one corner at full reach anyway.

 

I also like the way this supporting frame is separate from the boards - nothing against integral legs, but in a room where I have no room to swing things around without doing major damage I think this is wise: it also means my baseboards can be a bit heavier (simpler to make) without it being a problem.  Hopefully the trestles will be back in stock at my local store soon - if I can save money reusing some of the wood I have for boards I’ll be able to fund these instead.

 

Perhaps best of all, even I should be able to do the woodwork for the “I” frame needed.  This is really helpful.  Thank you.

Edited by Keith Addenbrooke
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Just now, Zomboid said:

I was thinking that you could turn the whole train, including the coaches and it still appear that the coaches are the same way round. If the train were a pair of BCKs back to back then that might work, if there's a CK in the middle then the corridor on that will change sides so it won't work.

 

Wasn't thinking of locos in particular.


Not such an issue with my trains, but 1st Class passengers on many mainline trains travel at the London end of a rake still I think.

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51 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

Hi Keith,

Suggestion regarding supports and cantilevering over the bed and desk:

Use 4 of those cheap, lightweight, folding work stands:

Place 4 beams on top:

1517611931_KA17c.png.25065ed51fedaabd05e9396bff8d7d5a.png

The two long beams at the top are hinged in the middle. They are connected by cross pieces and hinges with L-shaped removable pins. Use as many cross pieces as you like, possibly some diagonals for rigidity.

(Notice that I've shown the two long beams extending further over the bed than the original envelope.)

 

Baseboard modules on top:

 

 

Sorry,  forgot a bit. I realise this is a diagram to illustrate the concept rather than an engineering drawing as such, but presumably it’d be wise to pull in the left hand trestle on the top run (as drawn) so the overhang was the same at either end, to further reduce the risk of tipping? Probably not a big issue here, to be honest, but it all helps.  Again, the trestles and beams could be set up and centred before anything delicate comes into the room.

 

On a general note, I’m more relaxed about the bed overhang now - all the plans I’m looking at (apart from perhaps Hemyock 2) can avoid shunting in the far corner of the overhang: it’s not difficult to factor this constraint in.

 

I am more concerned about the desk overhang though.  The furniture is taller (30.5”), and there are things that live on top of the desk and cupboards, making a likely layout height closer to 4’ (track level).  Our daughter did the best job of any of us of having a sort out when we moved house two years ago - but she went from having a massive attic room that doubled as her art studio, to having the smallest bedroom in our new house.  I’m going to double check everything as part of taking stock.

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13 hours ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:


Not such an issue with my trains, but 1st Class passengers on many mainline trains travel at the London end of a rake still I think.

That's a relatively modern development which really came in with the move to fixed(ish) formations in the 1960s.  With the occasional exception of Brake Compos the 1st Class vehicles tended to be all over the place or towards the centre of the train in earlier years and a quick check of the Spring 1947 Carriage Working Programme (CWP) confrms that to be the case.  I haven't bothered to look at any wartime CWPs (I have several) but I doubt they'll be different.  

 

The main feature, except where authority had been given for it not to be complied with was that van ends, or vans, had to be marshalled at each end of longer distance trains although that began to be ignored in the early 1950s leading to several reminders being issued but particularly one following passenger fatalities in a collision (not on the WR) where the Inspecting Officer was highly critical of trains not being marshalled with van ends outward.

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1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

That's a relatively modern development which really came in with the move to fixed(ish) formations in the 1960s.  With the occasional exception of Brake Compos the 1st Class vehicles tended to be all over the place or towards the centre of the train in earlier years and a quick check of the Spring 1947 Carriage Working Programme (CWP) confrms that to be the case.  I haven't bothered to look at any wartime CWPs (I have several) but I doubt they'll be different.  

 

The main feature, except where authority had been given for it not to be complied with was that van ends, or vans, had to be marshalled at each end of longer distance trains although that began to be ignored in the early 1950s leading to several reminders being issued but particularly one following passenger fatalities in a collision (not on the WR) where the Inspecting Officer was highly critical of trains not being marshalled with van ends outward.


I can see the safety benefit of having vans at either end of the trains.  I wonder with regards to 1st Class passengers if another reason for the change in practice might also date back to the days when taxi ranks were sometimes alongside main Arrival platforms (eg: Liverpool Lime St), so 1st Class passengers in particular didn’t need to “head for the exits” in the same way as now?  

In the context of this bit of conversation, it could make it easier to justify turning the coaching stock on a turntable Fiddle Yard if the 1st Class is in the middle of the train?  Although @Zomboid’s point about the corridors would remain for trains where they were (or we’re supposed to be) on one side, I think some formations had them alternating - which would be a way out if I’m right about.

 

Did Night Mail coaches have the facility to catch Mailbags on both sides, or do they need turning to face lineside in both directions?
 

Not a concern for my Branch Line thinking, but all seems to point to the flexibility of cassettes for me as the easiest way to manage the complexity?  Or run end to end and don’t have a Fiddle Yard (if there’s space).

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