WR Miners Coaches

[Mike_Walker]

I found this photo on the web. Would I be right in thinking the two coaches are W3755W and W3756W which are D62 'City' Brake Thirds now preserved at Didcot?

 

 

The GWS website says they survived by virtue of being converted for use by miners by stripping out the interiors 1957 and fitting propane gas lighting in 1960. It would appear most of the doors have been sealed but it also appears  to have an Autotrailer-style gong and additional window added in the brake end - does this indicate push-pull fitting?

The somewhat leaky Pannier is noted as 9786 but the location isn't given. Could it be on the Glyncorrwg Branch?  The presence of battery boxes underneath and no gas tanks would suggest sometime between 1957-1960.

 

Mike

Edited April 9, 2022 by Mike_Walker

[Wickham Green too]

Gas lighting that late would have been from propane cylinders - contained in boxes !

[TomJ]

Im sure it’s the Glyncorrwyg miners train. They weren’t true autocoaches with control gear in the cab. Instead it was a window cut with a bell and a brake. All driving still being done from the engine

[The Johnster]

Confirmed as between Glyncorrwg and North Rhondda, and a lovely atmospheric photo on a damp cool day!  The Glyncorrwg workman's was the final place of work for these 'City' coaches which had originally been built to be able to run on the 'Widened Lines' services, and also, previously, for non-gangwayed clerestories, and, previously to that, the last GW 4 wheelers in service, the latter two of which can be represented to some degree by the RTR Hornby non-gangwayed clerestories and the Ratio, now Parkside, 4-wheelers; naccurate but very similar in profile.  See my 'South Wales in the 1950's' layout thread for stuff about working up Hornby clerestories into ersatz miner's coaches.

 

9786 isn't leaking too badly, just a little at the valve chests, and she's well on top of the job despite the steep gradient; the safety valves are lifting, and her exhaust is very clean.  The coaches were propelled from Glyncorrwg to North Rhondda colliery (not in the Rhondda Valley, but named for the North Rhondda seam that it worked), a modern pit but in a location remote even by the standards of the Mid-Glamorgan mountain fastnesses!  It eventually connected underground with Resolven in the Neath Valley and the famous Hirwaun pit.

 

Propelling was authorised on the branch, worked 'one engine in steam',  by the local Sectional Appendix (to the Rules and Regulations), and these coaches, already having end windows in the brake compartments, were fitted with central droplights so that the guard could access the central lamp brackets to show the white lamp needed at the head of the train.  No auto gear was provided and the train was driven from the loco, but the guard, instructed to 'keep a good look out' had a warning bell and of course the brake setter at his disposal.  The branding half way along the sides probably says 'Miners'.  

 

The sealed doors presumably mean that that section of the coach had had the compartment dividers stripped out and was being used as a saloon, with bench seating, but the lack of visibility through the dirty windows means that I cannot confirm this; the compartment dividers visible through the two open droplights on the leading coach suggest otherwise.   There are no 'no smoking' notices visible (as if miners would have taken any notice anyway) nor does there seem to be the 'clean' compartment provided on some miner's trains for the use of clerical staff.  The upholstery was left in place in these 'clean' compartments, but removed from the area the miners themselves were to use so that they could be easily cleaned by hosing or brushing.  North Rhondda was one of the first sunk in the area by the then newly formed NCB and was a 'show pit' with pithead baths from the outset, so men here should have been relatively clean while using the train.  The miner's train was replaced by a bus after road improvements in the upper part of the valley in, I think, 1960, but the pit remained rail connected and was the scene of a spectacular derailment of a D95xx Teddy Bear which ended in the river with a pile of 16ton minerals and coal on top of it; nobody hurt, fortunately, 1967 IIRC but BR2975 is the expert on these matters!

 

The previous stock, non gangwayed clerestories, also had the droplight cut into the end of the guard's compartment and the bell, which I think was operated by the same foot treadle mechanism as the auto trailer type.  Up to 4 coaches could be propelled IIRC and I have seen a photo of a train of at least 3 clerestories on the branch.  AFAIK the 4 wheelers were propelled but did not have the end droplight or bell.  

 

Note the replaced droplight with a cream window frame, originally from a GW liveried or BR crimson/cream liveried coach withdrawn and cannibalised for spares.  This was a fairly common sight, and an interesting variation on models from about the mid 50s until the last coaches on the WR with wooden framed droplights were withdrawn in the mid 60s.  It was quicker to replace the droplight complete to return the coach to service than to replace cracked or broken glass, and carriage sidings where there was a C & W presence would have a stock of droplights on hand to keep the coaches in service.

 

Annie is confirmed as 3756, and it seems highly likely that Annabelle is 3755.  I wouldn't like to comment on whether they were electrically or gas lit, as I cannot from that angle make out any dynamos or drive belts, but I would have thought that coaches used at low speeds over a relatively short distance would have been gas lit, from canisters in what look like the battery boxes.  On the leading coach, nearer the camera, there looks like some sort of small box above this 'battery box' which could be a gas tap, and I can't make out any cables at the ends of or connecting the coaches.

 

I think the bogies are 8'6" fishbelly types; the spring hangers don't look like Deans to me but I could be seeing what I want to see.  8'6" fishbellies are available in 4mm as 3D prints from Stafford Road/Shapeways, and i have 2 sets on an ancient K's plastic E116 B set of not dissimilar profile to these coaches but on longer underframes; they are easy to fit, have NEM pockets, and run superbly.  No connection satisfied customer.

[Mike_Walker]

Thanks to all for such interesting replies. 

 

Mike

 

[br2975]

 In 1959 the coaches shown were still gas lit, and the dedicated ex-GWR 'Cordon' tank wagon ran between Glyncorrwg (where it stabled behind the platform during the week) and Duffryn Yard, as follows:-

.

Aberavon Town - Glyncorrwg

2.30 am Duffryn Yard (Freight)

Mondays

-

Glyncorrwg - Aberavon Town

7.0 pm Glyncorrwg (Freight)

Mondays

-

 Worked between Aberavon Town and Duffryn Yard by Duffryn Yard Pilot at 3.0 a.m. Sundays and returned from Duffryn Yard to Aberavon Town by Duffryn Yard Pilot at 3.0 a.m. Tuesdays.

.

Where the 'Cordon' was refilled I know not, most in the area were still refilled at Cardiff General.

.

"Johnster" may be interested in the following "Cordon" working for the same date:- 

 

Tondu

8.20 am Abergwynfi

6.50 pm Porthcawl

Mondays & Thursdays to Cardiff General for charging.

Returning on the 10.0 am Cardiff Parcels to Bridgend – thence 2.10 pm Bridgend to Abergwynfi on 

Tuesdays & Fridays

.

Brian R

[The Johnster]

Johnster will indeed be interested in this as it gives him an excuse for a Cordon now and then.  He's assumed any Cordons worked to Tondu and no further on the basis that that's where the miners stock was stabled, but it makes sense that the Glyncorrwg and Abergwynfi stock was too far away from Tondu and while it might have visited for minor repairs was probably stabled in the upper Afan when not working, and the Cordon brought to it.  

 

The WTT has the morning miner's hanging around ecs at Cwmdimbath for some time awaiting a suitable path back to Tondu, or maybe it's stabled at Dimbath Jc during the day and overnight.  The only place for it is on the colliery branch until the ROF workman's has run around; once this has departed it can clear the branch and sit in the platform road until it's path becomes available, on the arrival in the loop of the first empties of the day for the colliery.  Shoehorning a gas refill for the lighting would involve having the Cordon positioned at the buffer stops and the stock buffered up to it.  How long does one need to fill the gas tanks?  If it can be done in about 20 minutes this is a viable working.

 

It can then run ecs down to Tondu with the Cordon as tail traffic; the Cordon arrives on one of the auto, or the ROF, which arrives as ecs.

 

Ok, how about this; miner's stock is run around and drawn on to Colliery Branch out of the way, the morning rush hour progresses, and the ecs for the ROF workman's arrives with Cordon as tail traffic.  The 08.00 auto departs, and the ROF stock shunts to the platform road, loco draws up to buffers.  Miner's stock sets back off Colliery Branch, and buffers to Cordon, which is uncoupled from ROF and coupled to the miner's ecs, which is drawn back on to the Colliery Branch.  Once locked in, the ROF loco sets the stock back and runs around, to depart at 08.15, arrives Tremains 08.50.  Busy little interlude, and the empties are on their way from Tondu yard, signalman is looking forward to another hour of working hard until the empties are squared away into the tender care of Cyclops and the NCB, then he can relax and have a cuppa, as can the shunter.  

 

Then all hell breaks loose as the pickup arrives and, while it is sorting itself out, the first loaded coal is up from the colliery and impatient for the road.  Time passes quickly like this, and the challenge is to get the pickup off the premises and the loaded coal run around, brake van in position, examined and ready to go before the next auto is knocking on the door at about 10.50, arrival 11.00.  The work steadies into an easy routine once this auto has arrive, and the pressure is off until after 16.30 or so, when the evening rush hour begins to gather pace and there may be an 'as required' goods.  But that's for the late shift signalman to worry about; our man will be long gone by then!

 

So now I've got to buy a Cordon from somewhere; thanks Brian!

[Wickham Green too]

K's used to do a Cordon which you might find on the interweb .......... not sure whether it was one of their better less awful wagon kits tho.

[melmerby]

There's always this more modern take on it:

https://i.materialise.com/en/shop/item/f9caeb77-e3a5-4ccb-930e-0101bad11f21

[The Johnster]

Wild Boar seem to be the front runners at the moment, though I will check out 'Bay to see if the K's is any good.  WB has the advantage of NEM coupling pockets though, and £25 inc. VAT is not too bad if you consider that a Bachmann RTR model would be likely pushing £40 and I can't see H doing it for much under £30, and Oxford seem to be restricting themselves to their already tooled chassis (though I'm looking forward to the GER van).  Spent all my pocket money for this week, so 3 weeks time now, next pension day, unless Hornby come up with the HM 8000 analogue smartphone NFC control system I've pre-ordered...

 

There is a 3rd choice, another 3D print from Stafford Road, an older type of Cordon with twin dome ended gas tanks carried lengthways.  This is a very attractive model and if I can find out that such wagons lasted into the 50s I'll be highly tempted.  But it's a bit pricier because it comes in bits; the wagon itself is very reasonable at £12.50 but you have to buy the tanks in separate sections, 3 parts for each tank so 6 items altogether at £6.50 a go, totals more than £50 when you add wheels and buffers.  This also has printed NEM pockets.  

 

So, give it a while chaps, and a Cordon will appear at Cwmdimbath to add a bit more interest to the daily workings.  I might even be able to find out how they were lettered either by the GW or BR but the time I buy one!