A New Plan - LMS / BR(M) BLT

[Hal Nail]

I found this is really useful in highlighting how constrained it gets trying to fit more than one "scene" into the length.

 

I'm thinking about about having two layouts next to each other, linked by the traverser. Eg a wharf and a clay dry in my case, neither much more complicated than two sidings or loops, each keeping that feeling of space you can get in O whilst taking advantage of the room's width to give the variety. 

 

Especially if portable so they dont both have to be permanently up.

[Guest WM183]

Hi Hal,

I think you're right. I think I will concentrate on a "Typical" BLT (Goods shed with crane, loco water stand, station and signal box, coal staithes/drop) and use the rest of the area for some further scenic opportunities and a dedicated fiddle yard and storage area. I can still have a short spur there at the bottom right, maybe even a loco shed that has become a barn / garage / home for wayward cats.

[Harlequin]

The problem with the fiddle yard is that it takes up so much space. It cramps the rest of the scene and it isn't good to look at, even though you need it to be easily accessible.

 

What if the "fiddle yard" was part of the scene, at the front right? Just a track or a pair of tracks that are fully ballasted and weathered etc. The industry or the engine shed could be behind it.

 

So when you look at the layout, the full 4.2m would look great - a complete scene.

 

To use the fiddle yard you just place locos and wagons on from storage manually and drive them into the scene (and vice versa). To give the FY a true sense of being somewhere special that trains come from and go to, it's marked off by simple scenic breaks, like maybe your overbridge or a level crossing, or whatever and with a fence behind it. The rule is you're only allowed to touch your rolling stock when it has driven into the FY area. It might be a good idea to have the rolling stock storage just below the right hand end of the layout, so they don't have far to go. If you didn't want to handle the stock so much you could possibly use scenic cassettes (@Chimer's idea!) but in 7mm scale they might be unwieldy - that would need more thought.

 

I haven't drawn it yet but that should, fingers crossed, give more room in the layout for the station platform and most importantly, more room for the goods shed and it's yard.

 

Edited August 27, 2020 by Harlequin

[Guest WM183]

Phil,
 

That is a good idea! I could scenic it a bit, maybe put a coaling station and water tower along the backscene. I think that could work!

[Hal Nail]

 

Dont know if you've seen this thread but i suggested lift out scenic cassettes which was just to avoid handling stock but basically the same principle - just fiddle the stock on the layout rather than compromise the scenic bit. Some other ideas on there as well - different size space but still essentially the same use of space theme.

[Harlequin]

Here's a quick sketch of a possible setup:

Lots of room for scenery behind

Two "fiddle roads" front right: main line and headshunt

Run round loop starts right after fiddle yard for maximum length. Run round movement uses fiddle yard - and that's fine, because it's part of the scene!

Curving platform can handle 2 60ft coaches

Suggestion: Goods shed at front with loading doors open to the viewer so you can look inside. See the recent photos in Little Muddle. (Imagine that the yard is mainly off scene at the front of the layout.)

Coal staithes behind shed?

Edited August 28, 2020 by Harlequin

[feanor]

Thats a neat layout plan Harlequin. It's given me lots of ideas for my planned layout.

[Guest WM183]

Hi Phil,

 

I like that plan quite a lot! That gives me plenty to work from, I believe. Thank you!

Amanda

[Happy Hippo]

Amanda, 

 

It's worth taking a look at what Geoff Forster has been doing in 7 mm scale.  

 

About 2 feet less than  you have to play with.

 

https://luggvalleyrailway.wordpress.com/

[brossard]

Very nice modelling Richard.  I also noted a reference to Lineside Look, online mag.  I sent the email.

 

John

[Guest WM183]

HI Richard, 

 

That blog certainly got the brainbits working! Now I'm wondering about building something backwoodsy and GWR flavoured. I do love panniers and small prairies...

[Guest WM183]

So I went to a clean sheet of paper approach and decided to see what I could do if I opened the right end to 36 inches width (I have a small 4' wall section here I can use, where there is then a doorway) and came up with this. I am unsure if i want the water tank and standpipe where it currently is, or on the siding at the lower right. I also don't have a dedicated track for coal staithes here; I don't want to put it off of the goods shed line as a kickback, because then the loco would need to drive through the GS to shunt it, and i understand driving the loco through the goods shed on the LMS / BR was not permitted? Regardless, this fits a lot of what I wish into 1 place. I could also have the coal dealer at the end of the goods shed line, which would necessitate some creative shunting at times! I envision this as a station that was not originally a terminus, but later became one when the line further on was closed due to weight restrictions on an aging bridge. This station now became a more important goods terminus, as it must handle the goods that originally went 1 or 2 stops further on!

 

Edited August 30, 2020 by WM183

[Guest WM183]

I wonder if my plan fits better somewhere in the Yorkshire Dales, or somewhere down southwest in GWR country? 

[railwayrod]

Hi Amanda.

 

I like your new plan as it seems to sit better in the space your have available. Just as a matter of interest here are a couple of shots of my goods shed situated in Ramchester's goods yard. 

This is a scratch built effort and is a reasonably accurate model of an LNWR goods shed taken from Jack Nelson's book "LNWR Portrayed" It is a smallish goods shed but even so measures some 17in X 9 inches x 8 inches high. Just goes to show how much space you need for a building. However I appreciate that there are smaller goods sheds especially on smaller branch lines so do not despair. Please stick with the LMS or the LNER as in my humble opinion there are just too many GWR branch line models about. Pannier tanks were seem as far north as Birkenhead and perhaps beyond so you can always justify one even on an LMS layout. Am enjoying your thread and intend to continue to follow your progress.

 

Rod

 

[Guest WM183]

Hi Rod,

 

Thank you for the kind words and for the goods shed example! I will very likely stay with LMS / BR (M) with the pannier tank being an odd visitor to the area. I am pretty firmly wedded to the BR / LMS around 1953 or so, so I hope to get or build a Jinty, an Ivatt 2-6-0 (Class 2 or 4) and perhaps an older Fowler or Stanier class 3 tank. A class 4 tank may be a visitor at times, along with some old 3F or 4F 0-6-0s. I may try to scratchbuild one of the 0-6-0s. 

I keep going back and forth between 7mm and 4mm, as I can get a Minories type urban terminus plus a nice goods/parcels dock in my space in 4mm. However, having seen what other folks here are doing in 7mm, and being quite inspired by it, I'll probably stay my course =)

I might try scratchbuilding a goods shed. Seems like an ok building project!

 

Amanda

[railwayrod]

Hi Amanda.

 

While it is true that you can get more in using 4mm or even N gauge the larger scale has much more presence and heft. You can really get in close to the model and see all the detail etc and to watch say a Jinty slowly creeping up to its wagons and kissing the buffers is magic. As I indicated earlier at the end of the day it is your layout and deep down you know what you want to do. Make a start on a building or something and I am sure that as you like building things such a project will get you hooked. Even a simple lineside hut built from scratch will give you a lift and a great deal of satisfaction when finished.

 

Go on, you owe it to yourself to have a go.

 

Rod

 

Edited September 3, 2020 by railwayrod

[Hal Nail]

24 minutes ago, railwayrod said:

Hi Amanda.

 

While it is try that you can get more in using 4mm or even N gauge the larger scale has much more presence and heft. You can really get in close to the model and see all the detail etc and to watch say a Jinty slowly creeping up to its wagons and kissing the buffers is magic. As I indicated earlier at the end of the day it is your layout and deep down you know what you want to do.

Amanda has built some wonderful stuff already on this forum. I dont think there is any doubt the impact 7mm has, the issue is, I think, purely down to whether the 14ft is sufficient to keep operating interesting enough.

 

That is personal in the end but is an understandable dilemma as it is quite restricted.

[Guest WM183]

Thanks Hal and Rod,

 

I love 7mm. All things being equal, I'd choose 7mm unhesitatingly! However, 14 feet, while not small, isn't a great deal of real estate for 7mm either. I have seen some wonderful layouts in that sort of space - I just don't know if they're the sort of layout I really would enjoy long term. As I am a builder first and an operator very distantly in second, I have to say "probably". I love scratchbuilding in 7mm, and bashing kits to get unique and realistic wagons. I don't think I've built a single Parkside kit yet as they come. All have gotten brass etched brakes, new lamp irons, roping cleats, and so on, and I have even scratchbuilt an entire wagon and preparing to try for a coach! Another concern for me, however, is:

 

LMS / BR is very underrepresented in 7mm RtR. We get... a Jinty. I guess the Pannier tanks can wander there too. That's it. 

Spending 300 or 400 pounds on a kit (plus wheels and motor/gears) or even more, and having no guarantee I will get a working loco at the end is... intimidating.

I can plunk down 40 or 50 pounds and get a Bachmann loco that runs like a watch out of the box. No fuss. My Jinty? 40 quid. My older Ivatt tank? I think 33. My Pair of Ivatt 4Fs? I think 40 or so each.  If i want to convert to EM, assuming I don't build a new chassis? 20 or 30 more pounds. Will it look as excellent as my Dapol 7mm pannier? Well... kinda?

 

I have a Bachmann 57xx that I bought for like 40 pounds. I installed a Zen decoder and KA capacitor; 22 pounds. A brass smokebox dart, some Modelu crew, and a nice set of fire irons; maybe 20 more pounds? Etched number plates? Like 3 pounds. I made my own lamp irons from brass and installed Dinghams... Idk, 5 pounds?

For under 100 pounds I have a loco that looks as good, IMO, runs as well, and is superdetailed. Even my Dapol 7mm pannier arrived with numerous parts broken (smokebox dart, leaf springs, rear brake shaft thingy) and the lamp irons and fire iron brackets also need to go. Now, it's a LOT of loco for the price, but is it "Better"? I dunno. It's sure bigger and has more presence!

 

 

It isn't so cut and dry, I guess, is all I mean. If we move away from the Dapol pannier, any sort of RTR gets a LOT more expensive. Heljan large prairie in 7mm? 550 pounds. Upcoming Dapol prairie in 4mm? 139 MSRP (will certainly be a few quid less from the big box places) Or, if i wanna do a bit of work myself, an Airfix one for 30 pounds. 550 pounds is... a lot. A rake of coaches to go with it would be, what... 100-200 a coach, unless I scratchbuild them (I plan to!). Comet coach kits, which build up into gorgeous coaches? 30-40 pounds.

Amanda

 

EDIT: I need to paint the lamp irons!!

Edited September 3, 2020 by WM183

[Hal Nail]

Presumably the base boards can do either so you can start with them anyway.

 

Worth buying some track - a few lengths of flexi and a point or two and see how it feels playing with those wagons. With the "heft" and detail of 7mm, as others have said, even running a loco over 3m can be fascinating in its own right, whereas that is less true in the smaller scales.

 

These days you can always sell it again on ebay and if you bought carefully in the first place, often make a profit, so little to lose testing the ideas.

 

[Guest WM183]

16 minutes ago, Hal Nail said:

Presumably the base boards can do either so you can start with them anyway.

 

Worth buying some track - a few lengths of flexi and a point or two and see how it feels playing with those wagons. With the "heft" and detail of 7mm, as others have said, even running a loco over 3m can be fascinating in its own right, whereas that is less true in the smaller scales.

 

These days you can always sell it again on ebay and if you bought carefully in the first place, often make a profit, so little to lose testing the ideas.

 

 

This is true!

I can certainly make my money back on the stuff, so I will get the benchwork up and test out some things. 

[34006]

I certainly think,where 7mm is concerned,less is more.(says the man with 5 or 6 locos,a shed load of wagons,a shelf full of unbuilt kits and nothing ,as yet to run them on.Things are looking up though).Jump in,you'll not regret it.

 

atb

 

Phil.