Anglesey Central re-opening proposal

[corneliuslundie]

Aniother re-opening proposal:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-53960145

Yet more money for consultants I suspect, but with all the current proposals the likelihood of it happening must be small..

Jonathan

[Quarryscapes]

Lovely shot of Jerry M/Cackler at DInorwig Quarry in there for some reason....

[Ravenser]

50 minutes ago, Quarryscapes said:

Lovely shot of Jerry M/Cackler at DInorwig Quarry in there for some reason....

 

And a fine view of one of the Fison's weedkiller trains top and tailed by 20s, billed as a special passenger service....

[Wheatley]

"All the heritage railways across the border attract goodness only knows how many visitors".

 

Well scoped and researched then. Has he noticed most of the busy/successful ones are within an hour or so of a major conurbation ?

[Wickham Green too]

4 hours ago, Wheatley said:

"All the heritage railways across the border attract goodness only knows how many visitors".

 

Well scoped and researched then. Has he noticed most of the busy/successful ones are within an hour or so of a major conurbation ?

Ah - but quite a few of the narrow gauge heritage railways THAT side of the border are within an hour or so of major tourist hot-spots ...... in fact some ARE major tourist hot-spots.

[Steamport Southport]

One of the more sensible reopenings though.

 

Quite a lot of tourism in that area now and a lot of good quality housing development planned.

 

Nice picture of Amlwch. Would love to model that station one day. Coal Tanks and Ivatt tanks?  

 

Alan Murray-Rust according to the BBC

 

 

Jason

[PatB]

Whilst those pushing for reopening might be clueless dreamers, I suspect we wouldn't be able to tell accurately from quotes in a brief article from a non-specialist source. 

 

Back when I was vaguely familiar with Anglesey (30+ years back now), my impression was of some fairly significant towns, very poorly served by public transport, so a rail link to Llangefni and Amlwch makes a certain amount of sense, at least at face value. 

[corneliuslundie]

And remember that the line is still there and has been looked after by a preservation group who are behind this proposal. I suspect that they DO have a grasp on reality. I don't know about the local authority; I just hope it is better than Powys (vide Carno reopening proposal)

Jonathan

[Phatbob]

Regarding the Amlwch branch, there is a lot of housing in Llangefny and very little work.  Amlwch is just too small to warrent a rail service, but Llangefny is the largest town on the Island.  To me a "half and half" Network Rail and heritage scheme with a pukka new TfW service to Llangefny for commuters, connecting to a heritage railway to Amlwch along the rest of the branch would give the greatest benefit to the locals for the money spent.

 

[Zomboid]

Where do people from Llangefni want to go? Presumably the train would run to Bangor, and maybe further along the coast (Llandudno or Chester)? One would imagine that the railway, like the A55, serves the significant traffic destinations, but if the travel demand is Holyhead and Ireland...

[Phatbob]

2 hours ago, Zomboid said:

Where do people from Llangefni want to go? Presumably the train would run to Bangor, and maybe further along the coast (Llandudno or Chester)? One would imagine that the railway, like the A55, serves the significant traffic destinations, but if the travel demand is Holyhead and Ireland...

Bangor, Llandudno + Llanduno Junction and Holyhead are the major local centres of employment.  When I lived in Bangor there were a lot of busses running between there and Llangefni.  Also between Bangor and Caernarfon BTW.

[009 micro modeller]

I was under the impression that the council had decided to use the trackbed as a cycle path (I have family who live on Anglesey). While this is a good idea I prefer the railway reopening so I’d love to be proved wrong.

 

Previously I think there was a proposal for a Network Rail reopening but only as far as Llangefni (which is also where the council offices etc. are located), with a heritage railway, cycle/footpath or some combination of both on the remaining section.

Edited September 1, 2020 by 009 micro modeller

[Zomboid]

1 hour ago, Phatbob said:

Bangor, Llandudno + Llanduno Junction and Holyhead are the major local centres of employment.  When I lived in Bangor there were a lot of busses running between there and Llangefni.  Also between Bangor and Caernarfon BTW.

A Llangefni to Llandudno service would probably be useful and not require a lot of rolling stock in that case. And would allow an enhanced service at the request stops between Bangor and Llandudno junction.

[009 micro modeller]

3 hours ago, Zomboid said:

A Llangefni to Llandudno service would probably be useful and not require a lot of rolling stock in that case. And would allow an enhanced service at the request stops between Bangor and Llandudno junction.

 

Obviously a slightly more complicated idea, but given that there seems now to also be a lot of support for reopening the line from Bangor to Caernarfon, would a Caernarfon to Llangefni (via Bangor, where passengers could change if needed) service work?

[CazRail]

As a local, re-opening the line would be a good idea. A positive effect would be to relieve some of the congestion on the bridges between the island and the mainland, but probably not as much as that. Public transport down the spine of the island is pretty poor, especially between Llangefni/Llanerchymedd/Amlwch, where there is a bus service every 2-3 hours in a working day. Though, I doubt the stations at Llangwyllog and Rhosgoch would be viable as the communities are very small. You could put Llanerchymedd in that category too.

Amlwch is a bigger place than many realise, so on that basis I'd say Amlwch would be viable. The busses from Amlwch to Bangor are frequently busy, but is a long journey, so possibly the railway could compete providing the capacity and line speed allows.

As mentioned earlier though, an Half and half operation between TfW and Anglesey Central Railway Ltd would probably be a better option.

Also, in recent years, the council has supported the railway re-opening rather than cycle path, however now the proposals include a multi-use path alongside the line, which caters for everyone.

 

Regards

Caz

[Zomboid]

22 hours ago, 009 micro modeller said:

 

Obviously a slightly more complicated idea, but given that there seems now to also be a lot of support for reopening the line from Bangor to Caernarfon, would a Caernarfon to Llangefni (via Bangor, where passengers could change if needed) service work?

Since we've got the crayons out... Caernarfon would be a destination for passengers as well as a source, wouldn't it? I'd imagine that it would warrant a service along the coast to Chester. A change to a different train at Bangor would only be a small improvement over the current situation of changing to a bus. I'd imagine that Llandudno and the towns along the coast would be bigger destinations for the good folk of Caernarfon then Llangefni is, too.

 

Would be a nice but of symmetry if the Conwy valley trains went there though, you could then complete a lap of Snowdonia entirely by train without a change on the national rail part.

[009 micro modeller]

1 hour ago, CazRail said:

...however now the proposals include a multi-use path alongside the line, which caters for everyone.

 

How would this work though? I didn’t think it had been built with room for a second track so would it be wide enough?

 

36 minutes ago, Zomboid said:

Since we've got the crayons out... Caernarfon would be a destination for passengers as well as a source, wouldn't it? I'd imagine that it would warrant a service along the coast to Chester. A change to a different train at Bangor would only be a small improvement over the current situation of changing to a bus. I'd imagine that Llandudno and the towns along the coast would be bigger destinations for the good folk of Caernarfon then Llangefni is, too.

 

Would be a nice but of symmetry if the Conwy valley trains went there though, you could then complete a lap of Snowdonia entirely by train without a change on the national rail part.

 

On this basis perhaps Caernarfon isn’t really relevant to the Amlwch scheme, I just mentioned it in case the idea of reducing stock requirements by joining things up was helpful (I understand there is some interest in reopening Caernarfon though but that’s one for another time). I’m just wondering whether TfW will want to lose trains that could serve Holyhead by running to Llangefni/Amlwch instead. Or could they extend trains that currently terminate at Bangor?

[Zomboid]

37 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

I’m just wondering whether TfW will want to lose trains that could serve Holyhead by running to Llangefni/Amlwch instead. Or could they extend trains that currently terminate at Bangor?

That's likely to be the issue with either Llangefni or Caernarfon reopenings. Is there demand for another hourly (for the sake if argument) train along the coast? Maybe, when I've used it at the eastern end trains have been very full. If not, where would they go? Bangor doesn't seem to offer much in the way of direct journey opportunities. Llangefni to Llandudno would seem to make sense, but where Caernarfon trains would serve is another question. Liverpool?

[Phatbob]

On 01/09/2020 at 17:42, 009 micro modeller said:

 

Obviously a slightly more complicated idea, but given that there seems now to also be a lot of support for reopening the line from Bangor to Caernarfon, would a Caernarfon to Llangefni (via Bangor, where passengers could change if needed) service work?

Llangefni to Cearnarfon would require a reversal at Bangor and tie-up a great deal of capacity.  Far better to either terminate at Bangor or run through towards Llandudno etc.   A large part of the old Banger - Caernarfon route is now roads (Felinheli bypass and Caernarfon town centre, including the tunnel), so a new alignment is required for a large proportion of the route.  A light rail or Tram-train scheme with street running at both ends might work better now given those constraints.  The bus stations at both Bangor and Caernarfon are nowhere near the station sites, so a bit of street running at both ends would provide much useful connectivity that is currently lacking.  It also offers the opportunity of a terminus at the Caernarfon end close to the Welsh Highland station and the world famous castle, in addition to stopping at the bus station.

 

[009 micro modeller]

4 minutes ago, Phatbob said:

Llangefni to Cearnarfon would require a reversal at Bangor

 

Assuming it is rebuilt with the junction that way round (if it is rebuilt at all). I only mentioned Caernarfon because it was possibly relevant as a way of avoiding lots of separate shuttle services though, so it’s not hugely relevant to Amlwch.

[Zomboid]

A light rail/ tram-train wouldn't offer much that the bus doesn't. For local journeys it would be useful, but for connecting towns then the ability to go further afield and connect to more towns would seem necessary to make doing anything worthwhile.

[CazRail]

6 hours ago, 009 micro modeller said:

 

How would this work though? I didn’t think it had been built with room for a second track so would it be wide enough?

 

 

That's a fair point, I suppose there'd have to be some land purchasing involved to accommodate it should it go ahead. Also where the line runs through built up areas, I imagine the path would need to run a different course to the line. 

 

When it comes to running a path next to a railway youll always have challenges when it comes to built up areas, cuttings, embankments and structures. 

[009 micro modeller]

11 hours ago, Zomboid said:

A light rail/ tram-train wouldn't offer much that the bus doesn't. For local journeys it would be useful, but for connecting towns then the ability to go further afield and connect to more towns would seem necessary to make doing anything worthwhile.

 

Although potentially a tram-train could also run over the main line in between.

[Ben B]

Sorry to be the voice of negativity and cynism, but why are we bothering to discuss it? A few consultants will trouser 10 million or so in fees for feasibility studies that prove inconclusive, and it will stay derelict until Sustrans get their cycle path as its cheaper. Railway reopenings are nice in theory but they just don't seem to happen. Borders line aside and that was a while ago now.

[Zomboid]

There's not been much outside Scotland (you've forgotten Airdrie - Bathgate), but that doesn't mean that nothing will ever happen. Reopening the Chandler's Ford line to passengers comes to mind as a reopening in England since privatisation - admittedly that didn't need massive rebuilding, but shows that it can happen if it makes enough financial and/or political sense. Reopening the line to Llangefni seems unlikely to be a financial slam-dunk as a train service alone, but with the politics and wider economic considerations surrounding it and the apparent relative simplicity of doing it it's worth having a closer look at least.