Crimson and cream

[AndyLNER]

Hi all,

 

I'm new to this forum, but I've been modeling on and off for a long time, (mostly off!).

 

About 5 years ago I spent  some dollars on some great DCC with sound Locos, 3 LMS and 3 LNER, and lots of mainly Bachmann Branchline coaches.

 

After a bit of a break, I'm getting back into running on a local club layout. A home layout will have to wait, sadly.

 

I have a nice rake of Mk1Bachmann coaches whose numbers indicate they were LMS, as follows:

 

 

My question is:

 

Did LNER run the crimson and cream coaches above, or was it LMS only? Would it work if I altered the markings on the coaches to begin with an E?

 

Eventually I'm going to only model LNER, so it would be nice to renumber the coaches and use them begging an LNER loco.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Andy

[doilum]

Crimson and cream sounds very much like blood and custard. This was the first livery of the post war British Railways. Some heretics think that this was the most attractive livery of Gresley's LNER coaches!

[russ p]

4 minutes ago, doilum said:

Crimson and cream sounds very much like blood and custard. This was the first livery of the post war British Railways. Some heretics think that this was the most attractive livery of Gresley's LNER coaches!

 

 

No no, blue and grey looks much better on them!

[Andy W]

The Porthole designs only appeared postwar, only a few even ran for the LMS, the vast majority were delivered to British Railways, because materials and labour shortages delayed construction, quite apart from delivery deliberately being phased over several years. Crimson and cream was BR's first livery, the ones delivered to the LMS would be in (LMS) maroon, not to be confused with BR's version of maroon which appeared on coaches of this type repainted in the late 1950s and early 1960s.

The numbers beginning and ending M are a dead giveaway, the first M means the coach is allocated to BR London Midland region, the last M means it is to an LMS design. The first M could and did change if the coach was transferred to another region, the last never did. in LMS days they didn't use the letters  at all.

The LNER worked in the same way with their final coach designs (Thompson stock) and again most was delivered new to BR, in crimson and cream, but this time using the letter E as the prefix and suffix. As with the M-suffix stock, if allocation changed, so did the first letter(s) - for example coaches allocated to Scotland had the SC prefix

You might have seen locos in LMS or LNER livery pulling crimson and cream coaches if you were around in 1948-1952 - it took a while to repaint all the locos, the express passenger ones tended to run up high mileages and got painted most frequently though.

 

If you have coaches with a number starting M or W etc but no suffix letter, these were built to BR's own designs, initially Mark One, first deliveries from 1951 onwards though not all the types appeared at the same time, they were still coming up with new types into the very early 1960s.

[DCB]

The 57ft porthole coach is not a Mk1  to mis quote Jasper Carrott its "Pre Mk1"   The give away is the under frame which has truss bars in line or outboard of he wheels which the MK1 does not have, relying instead on a central backbone.       The LMS design and LMS workshop built coaches you have would likely have worked with some LMS livery locos, most in post war black but possibly one or two, just about literally one or two from about 1000, locos still in maroon pre war livery.  Loco allocations and rosters stayed pretty much as per pre BR with LMS locos and stock runnng together and LNER Locos and stock runnng together until at least the mid 1950s by which time only a handfull of locos remained in pre BR liveries.    The 57ft Porthole coaches had only screw couplings and needed gangway converters to run with Mk1 stock which had LNER type buckeye coulplers and Pullman gangways so there was a tendency to keep the two separate.  LMS and GWR used the same couplers so LMS and GWR coaches often ran together in the same train  on GWR lines south of Bristol with GWR locos. 

[doilum]

2 hours ago, DavidCBroad said:

The 57ft porthole coach is not a Mk1  to mis quote Jasper Carrott its "Pre Mk1"   The give away is the under frame which has truss bars in line or outboard of he wheels which the MK1 does not have, relying instead on a central backbone.       The LMS design and LMS workshop built coaches you have would likely have worked with some LMS livery locos, most in post war black but possibly one or two, just about literally one or two from about 1000, locos still in maroon pre war livery.  Loco allocations and rosters stayed pretty much as per pre BR with LMS locos and stock runnng together and LNER Locos and stock runnng together until at least the mid 1950s by which time only a handfull of locos remained in pre BR liveries.    The 57ft Porthole coaches had only screw couplings and needed gangway converters to run with Mk1 stock which had LNER type buckeye coulplers and Pullman gangways so there was a tendency to keep the two separate.  LMS and GWR used the same couplers so LMS and GWR coaches often ran together in the same train  on GWR lines south of Bristol with GWR locos. 

Apologies for a slight deviation from the original thread, did the LMS keep its express liveries during WW2 or, like the LNER, paint them into plain black?

[DCB]

The LMS locos went into plain black, during WW2 even the new streamlined Duchess Pacifics came out in plain black circa 1943.  Post WW2 the LMS adopted lined black livery for express locos and mixed traffic locos but not the neat ex LNWR lining BR used but sort  of red edging round the edges of the panels.

The LNER also went for plan black during WW2 but Post War the LNER decided to go for Green livery for express and mixed traffic locos, but it seemed a bit patchy with some being black and others of the same class in green. A number of smaller locos also went into Green.  Some mainly pre 1923 LNER locos seemed to remain in pre WW2 green post war up to circa 1950, but a lot of these were scrapped instead of being repainted.

[cbeagleowner]

Hi. If you want to use the coaches with an LNER loco you could have them as part of an inter-regional service. For example a Newcastle -Bristol cross country service Or a Liverpool - Newcastle would change locos at York for an LNER loco and crew to Newcastle. Similar happened in other places too. 

 

As all Portholes were delivered in crimson and cream so you could run a rake with an LNER Pacific in a whole load of liveries. 
 

You can find the actual coaching formations In a working timetable or various books. However think I’d say that though not impossible it would be unlikely to be an all porthole rake but also include some Stanier period 3 coaches and even other P2 amd P1 stuff though the later you get the less earlier coaches there are. 
 

I hope that’s helpful. 

[AndyLNER]

Thanks to all for the replies to my question. I'll plough through the info and make a call.

 

Cheers,

 

Andy

[AndyLNER]

16 hours ago, DavidCBroad said:

The 57ft porthole coach is not a Mk1  to mis quote Jasper Carrott its "Pre Mk1"   The give away is the under frame which has truss bars in line or outboard of he wheels which the MK1 does not have, relying instead on a central backbone.       The LMS design and LMS workshop built coaches you have would likely have worked with some LMS livery locos, most in post war black but possibly one or two, just about literally one or two from about 1000, locos still in maroon pre war livery.  Loco allocations and rosters stayed pretty much as per pre BR with LMS locos and stock runnng together and LNER Locos and stock runnng together until at least the mid 1950s by which time only a handfull of locos remained in pre BR liveries.    The 57ft Porthole coaches had only screw couplings and needed gangway converters to run with Mk1 stock which had LNER type buckeye coulplers and Pullman gangways so there was a tendency to keep the two separate.  LMS and GWR used the same couplers so LMS and GWR coaches often ran together in the same train  on GWR lines south of Bristol with GWR locos. 

 

So the coaches are historically accurate to run behind an LMS Loco??

 

Also, I see you are from the Cotswalds? We were due over there in April, staying near Bourton on the Water, for a week, sadly  the COVID-19 debacle meant we had to cancel. It's a gorgeous part of the world!

 

 

[Steven B]

BR introduced Crimson and Cream for corridor coaches from 1948. It lasted until replaced by regional colour schemes in 1956 - i.e. Maroon for Midland and Eastern regions, green for Southern and chocolate/cream for Western.

 

The livery is far enough into British Railways life that most locos would be in a BR livery of one form or another - seeing an LMS liveried loco on a rake of Crimson & Cream coaches would be very rare, if it ever happened. Plenty of exLMS locos would still continue to haul the stock though.

 

As has been mentioned, just because a coach is marked as belonging to a region doesn't restrict it to just working in that region. You wouldn't transfer passengers from a Midland to Western region owned train on the boundary of the two for example. More likely is a rake from one region matched with a rake from another on a certain route. For example, a trans-Pennine service would be made up of one or more rakes of Midland region coaches matched with a similar number of Eastern Region trains.

 

Steven B 

[D9020 Nimbus]

Just one point to add—chocolate/ cream was restricted to "named expresses" on the WR; later on they started painting diesel locos maroon to match the maroon coaches.

[The Johnster]

6 hours ago, Steven B said:

seeing an LMS liveried loco on a rake of Crimson & Cream coaches would be very rare, if it ever happened. Plenty of exLMS locos would still continue to haul the stock though.

 

I think a timeline might clarify things a bit:-

 

1/1/48 - British Railways comes into being, a nationalised system replacing the 'Big 4' LMS, LNER, GW, and Southern railways.  At midnight 31/12/47 every locomotive in steam in the country blows whistles to celebrate.  There are now 6 regions, Western and Southern mostly corresponding to those networks, London Midland, including ex LNER line within it's territory, Eastern, including ex LMS lines within it's territory, North Eastern, including both LMS and LNER lines within it's territory, and Scottish, again including both companys' lines.  Then nothing much happens for 6 months; paint shops are told to continue painting locos and coaches in the previous company liveries but not to brand any company name on the.  Locos appear with 'BRITISH RAILWAYS' on tender or tank sides in whatever style the previous company had and in the previous company livery (majority plain black), LMS designed coaches appear in LMS 1947 livery and numbers in LMS style preceded by M (or SC if allox Scottish Region).  LNER designed coaches are prefixed E, NE, or Sc in LNER style with numbers in LNER style.

 

31/5/48 - BR has decided on standard liveries across the entire network.  Locos are now painted in the new liveries but have BRITISH RAILWAYS tender or tanks sides in the standard BR Gill Sans lettering.  Coaches are now Crimson and Cream separated by black lining for gangwayed stock and plain crimson for non gangwayed stock.  Gill Sans now used for coach prefixes and numbers, also 'RESTAURANT CAR' and such.  Stocks of 'sausage' first class labels and triangular red 'no smoking' labels for coach windows are sent out to carriage depots and come into use when previous stocks are used up.  

 

31/9/49 - Loco liveries adopt the 'unicycling lion' device and painting Gill Sans 'BRITISH RAILWAYS' ceases.  Some first class, and all Catering and Sleeping coaches carry BR 'roundel' device, and continue to do so until 1966.

 

1951- The first BR standard mk1 coaches enter service, and carry regional prefix letters as allocated.  Gangwayed are crimson/cream, non-gangwayed plain crimson, but to avoid duplicating numbers, suffix letters are affixed to coaches of big 4 design to show the railway that originally designed them and thus indicate where drawings are held and where major overhauls may be carried out.  Orders for LMS Stanier, LNER Thompson, GW Hawksworth, and Southern Bulleid coaches are not complete for several more years and these are painted new with the appropriate suffix letter.  Thus a mk1 allocated to the LMR would be numbered 'M xxxxx', but an LMS designed coach would be numbered 'M xxxxx M' irrespective of it's having been built by LMS or BR.  

 

But a mk1 allox Scottish Region would carry 'Sc xxxxx' while an LMS or LNER coach, new or not, allox ScR would carry 'Sc xxxxx M' or 'Sc xxxxx E'.  Some coaches to be overhauled at Darlington or York, allox ScR, would carry 'Sc xxxxx NE', etc.

 

1956 - This situation remained in place until a board level reorganisation resulted in greater regional autonomy with liveries, and the Southern re-adopted it's pre-nationalisation Malachite Green, and the WR adopted a variation of the GW's chocolate/cream for named expresses.  Gangwayed stock apart from this was now painted in lined maroon livery, and non-gangwayed in plain maroon.  

 

1959 - Non-ganwayed coaches recieve lined maroon livery.

 

1964 - Trial of XP64 stock, in corporate blue/grey livery

 

1966 - Corporate livery adopted with helvetica writing; intitally blue/grey ganwayed and plain blue non-gangwayed and dmu.

 

 

These dates are when the livery changes were first introduced, and in those days there was not the focus on branding that is a feature of the modern railway; coaches were not called in for repainting in new liveries, they ran in the old one until they were due heavy overhaul, which was on a mileage basis.  Thus, it was fairly common to see locos and coaches in big 4 liveries into the early 50s, and longer for some low mileage duty coaches, and similarly to see the transition liveries until the late 50s and the 1949 liveries into the early 60s.  Many coaches would have missed out on liveries altogether, for instance a coach overhauled in late 1947 might next be painted in one of the 1956 liveries, though this would be more likely for a non-gangwayed example. 

 

All the regions ran crimson and cream, as well as plain crimson coaches, from 1/6/48 onwards and well into the early 60s when the last coaches in these liveries were repainted.  All the regions had workings in which their coaches ventured onto other regions in through workings, so you might see a Southern Railway malachite green sunshine lettered 1947 painted coach next to a crimson/cream ex LNER in early 1948 BR faux teak scumble on a through Bournemouth-York train in 1953.

 

The LNER and Southern had by nationalisation standardised on buckeye buffer couplings for all gangwayed stock, and the LNER constituent companies had been using these since pre-grouping days as ECJS stock.  These coaches were fully compatible coupling wise with 'ordinary' stock fitted with conventional drawhooks and buffers, as the buckeye could be dropped down by withdrawing a securing pin, revealing a conventional drawhook behind it.  This was a very easy procedure taking no longer than the shunter needed to pull the pin and stand back, and the reverse uncoupling procedure was not much more complex.  The buckeye vehicles had extending conventional buffers to be used with collars which hung on chains from the buffer housings for this purpose.  BR mk1 gangwayed stock was also fitted with buckeyes as standard, and were coupled to drawhook stock in the same way.  So you can mix your stock and liveries in any way you like, Andy, though if you can work from photographs it is better.  Stock lists and carriage working diagrams do not specify liveries; if a working demanded a CK in a certain position in the train any type of CK in any livery could be used.  

 

Rakes of matching stock were kept in circuit for the prestige named workings, and most 'normal' stock used on London trains was kept in matching rakes as much as possible as well, but cross country and secondary services were made up of whatever was to hand that matched the requirements, and some xmas shopping or bank holiday excursions looked as if anything that might turn a wheel was in service (and there was a good reason for that), with the rule being that if two coaches of the same design had to unavoidably be marshalled next to each other, then every effort had to be made to ensure that they were at least of different liveries...

 

Of course, with the frequent changes and confusion of the very early BR period, there were anomalies, exceptions to every rule.  Coaches painted in one livery around the changeover dates might carry lettering and numbers from the next period, for example, and there were plenty of good old fashion mistakes and 'unofficial variations'.  By about 1950 things had settled down to the standard liveries, but some of the anomalies were in service for many years after this!

[chrisf]

I think you will find that there are 30 days in September and that the standard liveries were adopted in 1949. During 1948 some experimental liveries were applied, including wine red for some non-gangwayed stock and plum and spilt milk for some corridor coaches.

 

Chris

[62613]

On 01/09/2020 at 18:21, The Johnster said:

I think a timeline might clarify things a bit:-

 

1/1/48 - British Railways comes into being, a nationalised system replacing the 'Big 4' LMS, LNER, GW, and Southern railways.  At midnight 31/12/47 every locomotive in steam in the country blows whistles to celebrate.  There are now 6 regions, Western and Southern mostly corresponding to those networks, London Midland, including ex LNER line within it's territory, Eastern, including ex LMS lines within it's territory, North Eastern, including both LMS and LNER lines within it's territory, and Scottish, again including both companys' lines.  Then nothing much happens for 6 months; paint shops are told to continue painting locos and coaches in the previous company liveries but not to brand any company name on the.  Locos appear with 'BRITISH RAILWAYS' on tender or tank sides in whatever style the previous company had and in the previous company livery (majority plain black), LMS designed coaches appear in LMS 1947 livery and numbers in LMS style preceded by M (or SC if allox Scottish Region).  LNER designed coaches are prefixed E, NE, or Sc in LNER style with numbers in LNER style.

 

31/5/48 - BR has decided on standard liveries across the entire network.  Locos are now painted in the new liveries but have BRITISH RAILWAYS tender or tanks sides in the standard BR Gill Sans lettering.  Coaches are now Crimson and Cream separated by black lining for gangwayed stock and plain crimson for non gangwayed stock.  Gill Sans now used for coach prefixes and numbers, also 'RESTAURANT CAR' and such.  Stocks of 'sausage' first class labels and triangular red 'no smoking' labels for coach windows are sent out to carriage depots and come into use when previous stocks are used up.  

 

31/9/49 - Loco liveries adopt the 'unicycling lion' device and painting Gill Sans 'BRITISH RAILWAYS' ceases.  Some first class, and all Catering and Sleeping coaches carry BR 'roundel' device, and continue to do so until 1966.

 

1951- The first BR standard mk1 coaches enter service, and carry regional prefix letters as allocated.  Gangwayed are crimson/cream, non-gangwayed plain crimson, but to avoid duplicating numbers, suffix letters are affixed to coaches of big 4 design to show the railway that originally designed them and thus indicate where drawings are held and where major overhauls may be carried out.  Orders for LMS Stanier, LNER Thompson, GW Hawksworth, and Southern Bulleid coaches are not complete for several more years and these are painted new with the appropriate suffix letter.  Thus a mk1 allocated to the LMR would be numbered 'M xxxxx', but an LMS designed coach would be numbered 'M xxxxx M' irrespective of it's having been built by LMS or BR.  

 

But a mk1 allox Scottish Region would carry 'Sc xxxxx' while an LMS or LNER coach, new or not, allox ScR would carry 'Sc xxxxx M' or 'Sc xxxxx E'.  Some coaches to be overhauled at Darlington or York, allox ScR, would carry 'Sc xxxxx NE', etc.

 

1956 - This situation remained in place until a board level reorganisation resulted in greater regional autonomy with liveries, and the Southern re-adopted it's pre-nationalisation Malachite Green, and the WR adopted a variation of the GW's chocolate/cream for named expresses.  Gangwayed stock apart from this was now painted in lined maroon livery, and non-gangwayed in plain maroon.  

 

1959 - Non-ganwayed coaches recieve lined maroon livery.

 

1964 - Trial of XP64 stock, in corporate blue/grey livery

 

1966 - Corporate livery adopted with helvetica writing; intitally blue/grey ganwayed and plain blue non-gangwayed and dmu.

 

 

These dates are when the livery changes were first introduced, and in those days there was not the focus on branding that is a feature of the modern railway; coaches were not called in for repainting in new liveries, they ran in the old one until they were due heavy overhaul, which was on a mileage basis.  Thus, it was fairly common to see locos and coaches in big 4 liveries into the early 50s, and longer for some low mileage duty coaches, and similarly to see the transition liveries until the late 50s and the 1949 liveries into the early 60s.  Many coaches would have missed out on liveries altogether, for instance a coach overhauled in late 1947 might next be painted in one of the 1956 liveries, though this would be more likely for a non-gangwayed example. 

 

All the regions ran crimson and cream, as well as plain crimson coaches, from 1/6/48 onwards and well into the early 60s when the last coaches in these liveries were repainted.  All the regions had workings in which their coaches ventured onto other regions in through workings, so you might see a Southern Railway malachite green sunshine lettered 1947 painted coach next to a crimson/cream ex LNER in early 1948 BR faux teak scumble on a through Bournemouth-York train in 1953.

 

The LNER and Southern had by nationalisation standardised on buckeye buffer couplings for all gangwayed stock, and the LNER constituent companies had been using these since pre-grouping days as ECJS stock.  These coaches were fully compatible coupling wise with 'ordinary' stock fitted with conventional drawhooks and buffers, as the buckeye could be dropped down by withdrawing a securing pin, revealing a conventional drawhook behind it.  This was a very easy procedure taking no longer than the shunter needed to pull the pin and stand back, and the reverse uncoupling procedure was not much more complex.  The buckeye vehicles had extending conventional buffers to be used with collars which hung on chains from the buffer housings for this purpose.  BR mk1 gangwayed stock was also fitted with buckeyes as standard, and were coupled to drawhook stock in the same way.  So you can mix your stock and liveries in any way you like, Andy, though if you can work from photographs it is better.  Stock lists and carriage working diagrams do not specify liveries; if a working demanded a CK in a certain position in the train any type of CK in any livery could be used.  

 

Rakes of matching stock were kept in circuit for the prestige named workings, and most 'normal' stock used on London trains was kept in matching rakes as much as possible as well, but cross country and secondary services were made up of whatever was to hand that matched the requirements, and some xmas shopping or bank holiday excursions looked as if anything that might turn a wheel was in service (and there was a good reason for that), with the rule being that if two coaches of the same design had to unavoidably be marshalled next to each other, then every effort had to be made to ensure that they were at least of different liveries...

 

Of course, with the frequent changes and confusion of the very early BR period, there were anomalies, exceptions to every rule.  Coaches painted in one livery around the changeover dates might carry lettering and numbers from the next period, for example, and there were plenty of good old fashion mistakes and 'unofficial variations'.  By about 1950 things had settled down to the standard liveries, but some of the anomalies were in service for many years after this!

 Not necessarily; The Great Central, for instance, remained with the E.R. for many years, even though it started in Manchester and Finished in London. I don't think the LMR completely took over the running of the CLC until 1952.

 

On another note, a well-known model shop proprietor in Saddleworth once told me that on the on Standedge route Newcastle - Liverpool trains, the Ex-LNER stock could still be seen in teak as late as 1953. There's another thing; there were two different routes for these trains, of long standing. One service was ex-LYR/NER, and ran from Liverpool Exchange via Rochdale and the Calder valley; and the other ex-LNWR/NER, which ran from Lime Street, via Standedge and the Colne Valley. Did this one run via the New Line from Heaton Lodge to Farnley Junctions? Certainly on the Standedge route the LMS and LNER provided complete sets of their stock on alternate days, for the coupling and gangway connection reasons mentioned above.

[roythebus]

It would be quite rare to see a train composed entirely of the same type of stock! Have a look at any photos of the era you are modelling.

[doilum]

10 hours ago, roythebus said:

It would be quite rare to see a train composed entirely of the same type of stock! Have a look at any photos of the era you are modelling.

In particular, the pre war specialist coaches, full brakes, restaurant and buffet cars, were very long lived some surviving into the 1970s in blue/ grey.

[RichardT]

Some very useful detailed summaries of information about the BR era in this thread, but Andy originally asked a very specific question:

On 31/08/2020 at 08:46, AndyLNER said:

My question is:

 

Did LNER run the crimson and cream coaches above, or was it LMS only? Would it work if I altered the markings on the coaches to begin with an E?

 

Eventually I'm going to only model LNER, so it would be nice to renumber the coaches and use them begging an LNER loco

My simple answers (which risk being over-simple) to your question as you asked it are in three parts:

 

1. you can do what you like on your own layout! 

BUT

 

2. *If* your plan is to only model the LNER (the company which existed from 1923-1947) with a degree of accuracy, then no, the LNER didn’t ever run these coaches.  They are in a BR livery which only appeared after the LNER had ceased to exist.  You *can* run LMS (and GWR, and SR) liveried mainline coaches on an LNER (mainline) layout behind an LNER loco as coaches from other companies worked through onto the LNER on cross-country services.  (As an aside, you can also run a complete LMS or GWR train behind an LMS or GWR loco on an LNER layout which is set on a jointly-worked line or in a jointly-worked area. SR not so much as their areas of overlap with the LNER were virtually non-existant except some freight workings in London.)  

 

It seems from other comments that the specific types of LMS coaches you have weren’t delivered until after BR was created, so you can’t accurately repaint them into LMS livery. You’ll need some models of earlier types of LMS coaches for your LNER layout. And renumbering etc also won’t make a difference for the same reason.  But again - it’s your layout!
 

HOWEVER

 

3.  *IF* what you meant by “I’m only going to model LNER” is actually “I’m going to model a bit of the ex-LNER as it appeared under BR ownership after 1948” then that’s a different question, to which the information in the previous posts is part of the answer!
 

Cheers, Richard

Edited September 4, 2020 by RichardT
Clarify

[The Johnster]

The last coaches painted in LNER, LMS, GWR, or Southern Railway livery were  those outshopped at the latest in late 1947.  You can run them on a layout dated for the early nationalised BR period, 1948 up to the mid 50s, in their previous company liveries.  But if your period is set prior to 1948, you can’t (unless you invoke Rule 1, which is fine so long as you don’t claim the practice as correct for the period) run any coaches in crimson and cream as this is a nationalised BR livery not used until mid 1948.  My time line post explains this in broad terms; I have left out the 1948 experimental liveries.  

[TheSignalEngineer]

2 hours ago, The Johnster said:

The last coaches painted in LNER, LMS, GWR, or Southern Railway livery were  those outshopped at the latest in late 1947.  You can run them on a layout dated for the early nationalised BR period, 1948 up to the mid 50s, in their previous company liveries.  But if your period is set prior to 1948, you can’t (unless you invoke Rule 1, which is fine so long as you don’t claim the practice as correct for the period) run any coaches in crimson and cream as this is a nationalised BR livery not used until mid 1948.  My time line post explains this in broad terms; I have left out the 1948 experimental liveries.  

The instruction to use crimson and cream from Riddles was dated 13 January 1949. Lancing turned out coaches in green until February, whilst Swindon's first use of the new livery was around the beginning of May 1949. LMS coaches built in 1948 and early 1949 were painted in lined maroon without LMS branding or crests.

Painting and then touch up and revarnish cycles varied between companies and type of stock  typically between 7 and 10 years for a full repaint. This led to some coaches going straight from Big 4 liveries to BR maroon and on the Southern region going straight from pre-1948 Malachite to 1956 BR(S) green. I travelled in a green coach in July 1955.

Edited September 5, 2020 by TheSignalEngineer