BR(SR) Birdcage Sets

[CC Booster]

                                 Forgive me if this topic has been covered, but reading through many of the excellent threads I can't find the information I need. I found  interesting articles in using Tri-Ang clerestory coaches as a base for conversions, and attach a picture of my cut'n'shut attempts, making an All Third strengthener for my Push Pull set, and an SECR 6 wheel Full Brake which by the 1950's rests withdrawn in a siding as a PW tool van.

                               I am repainting my BR Crimson OO Bachmann 3-car Birdcage set into malachite green as worn by a few sets in the early 1950's. I have seen some colour photgraphs of such 60' sets in 1956-1957 just before withdrawl, and imagine these sets were re-varnished SR green rather than repainted BR (SR) green. I need a list of set numbers and coach numbers within the sets for the BT, CL, & BTL. The very useful sremg coach set table doesn't include Birdcage sets, the 595-622 set range which I am particularly interested- has many of the set numbers being re-used by Maunsell Push-Pull sets.

                              Can anyone name the publication, or preferably website which has the definative table of SECR Birdcage Sets as numbered by BR. The current situation results in me having plenty of time but little income so the cheapest option would be preferable, the alternative of ordering a plethora of books to add to the groaning railway bookcase would be politically inapposite.

[Wickham Green too]

All the info you need is in https://www.mdsbooks.co.uk/bogies-carriages-of-secr.html

[Steamport Southport]

Get it from the publishers with freepost. As long as you are in the UK.

 

http://stenlake.co.uk/book_publishing/?page_id=131&ref=849&section=

 

 

 

 

Jason

[CC Booster]

Dear Wickham and Jason,           Thanks for the tip of the Oakwood Press book.

   Has anyone used the Railtec service of custom making 4mm scale coach numbers Cat no 9965? It looks just the ticket for renumbering sets in BR years.

 

Thanks  Steve

[CC Booster]

I ordered the book on Thursday from Stenlake publishers in Scotland, and it arrived in Yorkshire Saturday morning, excellent service.

 

Steve

[Wickham Green too]

Enjoy your read ...........

[Paul_C]

I have a set of these in crimson but can anyone suggest numbers of those that would have run on the Sheerness branch line around the late forties and through the fifties please.

 

Paul C. 

[bécasse]

Probably any of them. They rarely worked outside Kent, Surrey and East Sussex (plus the ex-SECR route to Reading) and there was a tendency for all of the non-specifically allocated coaching sets in this area to migrate around over time through inter-linked diagrams.

 

Sets in plain crimson wouldn't have been seen anywhere in the late-1940s, most would have still been in a worn SR livery and any that had been repainted crimson (I am not sure that any were pre-1950) would have had waist-lining (which looked ridiculous on panelled stock which is why the practice was quickly abandoned).

[Wickham Green too]

Indeed, all the three-coach 'birdcage' sets were considered to be 'Rover' sets as they could - and did - rove around the Eastern and Central Sections. [ I've never figured out why the Western Section was excluded - simply because the native brakes were wider over duckets and couldn't be included in a common fleet, perhaps.]

[Paul_C]

Thanks for your replies.

 

It would appear then that the crimson sets were more evident in the fifties which falls in line with the era that I'm modelling. I've just been having a browse through and found a few entries that mention three forms of green, Malachite, BR and Southern Region. I've found a weathered set from TMC listed as SR green but the catalogue numbers prove them to be Malachite.

 

Were SR green and Malachite green one of the same?

 

Paul C.

[pete_mcfarlane]

1 hour ago, Wickham Green too said:

Indeed, all the three-coach 'birdcage' sets were considered to be 'Rover' sets as they could - and did - rove around the Eastern and Central Sections. [ I've never figured out why the Western Section was excluded - simply because the native brakes were wider over duckets and couldn't be included in a common fleet, perhaps.]

The recent Mike King book on pre-group SR coaches explains this in detail - the LBSC 3 coach sets were part of this same pool and could turn up on the same workings, and the LSWR sets were given a 'restriction' number that stopped them working off LSWR lines. 

[Wickham Green too]

1 hour ago, paulcornish said:

Thanks for your replies.

 

It would appear then that the crimson sets were more evident in the fifties which falls in line with the era that I'm modelling. I've just been having a browse through and found a few entries that mention three forms of green, Malachite, BR and Southern Region. I've found a weathered set from TMC listed as SR green but the catalogue numbers prove them to be Malachite.

 

Were SR green and Malachite green one of the same?

 

Paul C.

The Southern Railway initially standardised on what is probably best known as 'Maunsell' green - though often described by assorted, inaccurate, vegetable names. Just prior to the war a brighter green was introduced called 'malachite' .... both these could be described as SR greens. 

Both colours were in evidence well into the British Railways period - often with updated insignia - until 'crimson' ( also known by innumerable other names ) covered all. In 1956 the Regions were given the freedom to paint rolling stock as they wished and the Southern Region - also 'SR' - adopted a ( darker ) version of 'malachite' - but few pre-grouping coaches lasted long enough to carry it. ......... so "SR green" could be Southern Railway Maunsell green, Southern Railway malachite green or British Railways Southern Region green .................. why on earth do people persist with such an ambiguous phrase !!?!

 

here endeth this Sunday's rant ........

[Wickham Green too]

2 hours ago, pete_mcfarlane said:

The recent Mike King book on pre-group SR coaches explains this in detail - the LBSC 3 coach sets were part of this same pool and could turn up on the same workings, and the LSWR sets were given a 'restriction' number that stopped them working off LSWR lines. 

The former L.B.S.C.R. arc-roofed stock was also too wide to run on the S.E.D. - but the Southern saw fit to modify or remove the duckets so they were OK ...... could that not have ben done to the L.S.W.R. sets too ?