Scottish Steam - Matti's Workbench

[Matti8]

Hello, this is my first post on here.

 

I hope this to be the place where I display progress on any kits or scratchbuilds. As you may have read in the title my particular interest is the LMS in Scotland between 1928-1935, however, I really do enjoy all Scottish railways no matter the era. I will be updating this as frequently as time allows me. Also I invite any and everyone to share work as well.

 

Thanks

 

Matti

Edited April 20, 2021 by Matti8

[Matti8]

So, here goes nothing...

 

My first ever locomotive kit - the DJH HR/CR River Class. I purchased it a few months ago straight from DJH and I really do recommend their services they were a big help solving a payment problem due to being outside the UK. Anyways I haven't done too much as of yet only sanding down the whitemetal body and preparing some of the brass for soldering. Before it goes together I will check the castings against drawings from the Highland Railway Society which should be on their way. I have to say that the casting of the footplate is most disappointing and I have thought about plating the top in brass but I will see how it looks after filler and more sanding.

 

Matti

Edited September 3, 2020 by Matti8

[ikks]

I also had a problem with a Model Loco Duchess (made by DJH), the footplate was almost wasted away in the middle, a quick phone call to DJH and I received a replacent foc within a week. Another issue was with a Standard cab which I ruined, again quick phone call and a replacement arrived here within 10 days, I am in rural Oz so I reckon that's fantastic service.

 

Rgds Mike

[Matti8]

10 hours ago, ikks said:

I also had a problem with a Model Loco Duchess (made by DJH), the footplate was almost wasted away in the middle, a quick phone call to DJH and I received a replacent foc within a week. Another issue was with a Standard cab which I ruined, again quick phone call and a replacement arrived here within 10 days, I am in rural Oz so I reckon that's fantastic service.

 

Rgds Mike

Yes my thoughts exactly their shipping time is almost disturbingly fast!

 

Regards

 

Matti

[jamie92208]

I will follow this with interest. I like Highland locos and just wish that someone made a 7mm kit for a River.

 

Jamie

[Matti8]

43 minutes ago, jamie92208 said:

I will follow this with interest. I like Highland locos and just wish that someone made a 7mm kit for a River.

 

Jamie

Hi Jamie I believe that there has been a 7mm River kit available at some point although I do not know the maker. An example of one was posted by user kristopher1805 on MRF.

 

Matti

Edited September 4, 2020 by Matti8

[jamie92208]

I did look for one but was told that they are now only available built to order notvas a kit. Lochgorm who do a lotbof Highland Kits don't do one unfortunately. Thanks anyway.

 

Jamie

[Portchullin Tatty]

Hi Matti

 

Great to see another modeller with an interest in  the Highland's locomotives (they were only ever loaned to the Caley!).  They were very fine locomotives; almost certainly the best 4-6-0 that the Caley had and in the running for the Highland's too.  I have one in bits "in the pile" and my father has a finished one.

 

There is some effort in making a new footplate/valance sides, but it is not impossible and would definitely improve the model?

 

I take it you are aware of these:

 

Highland Railway Locomotives - Tatlow

 

Highland Railway Locomotives - vol 2 - Cormack & Stevenson

 

And here is a taster of the real thing; 1930s so well into its life; not quite sure where.

 

 

[Matti8]

2 hours ago, Portchullin Tatty said:

Hi Matti

 

Great to see another modeller with an interest in  the Highland's locomotives (they were only ever loaned to the Caley!).  They were very fine locomotives; almost certainly the best 4-6-0 that the Caley had and in the running for the Highland's too.  I have one in bits "in the pile" and my father has a finished one.

 

There is some effort in making a new footplate/valance sides, but it is not impossible and would definitely improve the model?

 

I take it you are aware of these:

 

Highland Railway Locomotives - Tatlow

 

Highland Railway Locomotives - vol 2 - Cormack & Stevenson

 

And here is a taster of the real thing; 1930s so well into its life; not quite sure where.

 

 

Hi

 

Yes the River is quite a charming specimen, as soon as I saw the kit available I contacted DJH - too good to pass up.

 

You're right about the footplate it would be tricky indeed it's not your average shape! I will consult friends with proper equipment. Have been cleaning it up today will probably post tomorrow on it.

 

I had forgotten those books so thank you for mentioning them, will definitely get copies. I like that photo alot, was thinking of making this one 14759 but it's not set in stone.

 

Matti

[Bustered]

Hi Matti,

looking good so far, will be following with interest! Keep up the good work!

 

Best wishes

Nige

[Matti8]

Thanks Nige really glad people are interested.

 

Now I got on with the filler yesterday, just testing if what I had would work. I used Tamiya grey filler because it's the only thing I had at the moment. I think it looks (and feels) better so my test proved successful. I turned up the clarity so it could be seen better and it looks rough but I assure you that it is perfectly smooth. Probably took half the thickness of the beading away after sanding but it was much too thick before anyways.

 

Despite the good results I feel more and more like scratchbuilding a new one would be the best route to take. After some thinking it really wouldn't be as difficult as I had thought previously. All I really need is to get out the vise.

 

But that's all I have for right now, more to come.

 

Matti

[Matti8]

The River is on hold at the moment after realising that it appears DJH updated said kit at some point in time. I have no idea when this was or when the other one was available but the version I have with the cast footplate seems far inferior. The other is etched! I will investigate further and with haste because I really would like to get this loco soldered.

 

In the meantime I will have something else to work on. Two Jidenco Models kits which I got on eBay for just over €20. They will need cleaning up and their directions are possibly the worst I have ever seen but they are very fine in quality. The roofs will be replaced with brass as well because as you can see a card roof is included that may or may not be about as thick as heavy duty paper. The axlebox and springs are shockingly well cast and brass buffers are nice as well but don't appear to be the right prototype. If anyone has drawings or other useful information on these wagons please post.

 

More to come,

 

Matti

[uax6]

I've got at least three of these kits in the stash (and it may even be four!) and one happens to be one in the original red box limited edition batch that I believe was the very first production of these kits. The footplate is very definitely cast w/metal in all of the versions I have.

Now whether there was a Jendico or Peter K River kit I don't know, but there certainly was one from them for the Castle class, as I very surprised to buy a castle that wasn't white metal some years back...

 

I really must find my modelling mojo and get on with my HR stud of locos, and update my threads... I have far too many part built kits..

 

Andy G

[Matti8]

22 minutes ago, uax6 said:

I've got at least three of these kits in the stash (and it may even be four!) and one happens to be one in the original red box limited edition batch that I believe was the very first production of these kits. The footplate is very definitely cast w/metal in all of the versions I have.

Now whether there was a Jendico or Peter K River kit I don't know, but there certainly was one from them for the Castle class, as I very surprised to buy a castle that wasn't white metal some years back...

 

I really must find my modelling mojo and get on with my HR stud of locos, and update my threads... I have far too many part built kits..

 

Andy G

Thanks for the info it will definitely help. And please do get back to doing your thing you can't imagine how long I spent reading posts from you, Steve and others before I finally decided to get on here myself. I always enjoy seeing such creativity and resourcefulness.

 

Matti

[Portchullin Tatty]

12 hours ago, uax6 said:

I've got at least three of these kits in the stash (and it may even be four!) and one happens to be one in the original red box limited edition batch that I believe was the very first production of these kits. The footplate is very definitely cast w/metal in all of the versions I have.

Now whether there was a Jendico or Peter K River kit I don't know, but there certainly was one from them for the Castle class, as I very surprised to buy a castle that wasn't white metal some years back...

 

I really must find my modelling mojo and get on with my HR stud of locos, and update my threads... I have far too many part built kits..

 

Andy G

 

I wasn't aware that DJH updated the River with an etched chassis and am not convinced of it.  Whilst it is a bit of a paint to make one from scratch, it would not be impossible by any means as you have the DJH version as a guide.

 

There are no other versions of the River I am afraid; it is DJH or scratch or in 7mm you only have the option of scratch!

 

DJH do (or did, I am not sure of their status) the castle 1 which with a bit of effort could do a castle 2 but not the castle 3 series.  Falcon brass/Jidenco did a castle 1 too which is no longer available.  However, I found it was a bit narrow and a bit more short.  As I model in P4, too narrow is a killer as there isn't enough room to get the wheels in, so I sent it back three decades ago. 

 

Lochgorm Models do a good etched version in 7mm and I did convince Andy Copp when he was still with us to give me a 4mm  version as a private favour but given the wheelbase is only fractionally less than the wheel size, it only works with P4 wheels (which is why he did not release it).   It is still in my kit pile though!

 

 

[Portchullin Tatty]

14 hours ago, Matti8 said:

The River is on hold at the moment after realising that it appears DJH updated said kit at some point in time. I have no idea when this was or when the other one was available but the version I have with the cast footplate seems far inferior. The other is etched! I will investigate further and with haste because I really would like to get this loco soldered.

 

In the meantime I will have something else to work on. Two Jidenco Models kits which I got on eBay for just over €20. They will need cleaning up and their directions are possibly the worst I have ever seen but they are very fine in quality. The roofs will be replaced with brass as well because as you can see a card roof is included that may or may not be about as thick as heavy duty paper. The axlebox and springs are shockingly well cast and brass buffers are nice as well but don't appear to be the right prototype. If anyone has drawings or other useful information on these wagons please post.

 

More to come,

 

Matti

 

LMS Standard Coaching Stock Vol 1 by Essery and Jenkinson is what you'll need for both of these (but it is not easy to get hold off - ie expensive - as the print run seemed to be short).  Alternatively, Historic Carriage Drawings volume 3  by my old man which is a lot easier to get hold of.  It only has the fish van in (I think it is the right one do please check, i have reproduced the page below).

 

I have the fish van in my stash and whilst I have not yet built it, I have built a number of other Jidenco vans.  Not the easiest but not impossible either.  The main issue to look out for is that the designer did not factor in the thickness of the metal when they conceived the built up model, you thus get the sides finishing at the same point that the ends start.  This is not too much of a problem for the first layer of construction as the vehicle ends up just a fraction short but it gets worse if you have several lamainated layers on top as they are all the shorter dimension.  

 

Because there are a number of laminations, you want a good sized iron and use good 145 degree solder, not anything else.  And if you have not found 100 degree solder yet, that is what you want for the whitemetal parts.  I only discovered this about a couple of years ago, and it is so much easier than any other solution for white metal parts.

 

I would give very serious consideration to the use of sprung W-irons on the 6 wheeled fish van - try the Bill Bedfords.  Even in 00, the possibility of rocking on the central axle is there and if it is even a fraction low, the vehicle will derail.  I would also give some thought to a sliding central axle although in 00 this is probably not essential.  I have shown how I do 6 wheeled vehicles here and here.

 

Enjoy!

 

 

[Matti8]

4 hours ago, Portchullin Tatty said:

 

LMS Standard Coaching Stock Vol 1 by Essery and Jenkinson is what you'll need for both of these (but it is not easy to get hold off - ie expensive - as the print run seemed to be short).  Alternatively, Historic Carriage Drawings volume 3  by my old man which is a lot easier to get hold of.  It only has the fish van in (I think it is the right one do please check, i have reproduced the page below).

 

I have the fish van in my stash and whilst I have not yet built it, I have built a number of other Jidenco vans.  Not the easiest but not impossible either.  The main issue to look out for is that the designer did not factor in the thickness of the metal when they conceived the built up model, you thus get the sides finishing at the same point that the ends start.  This is not too much of a problem for the first layer of construction as the vehicle ends up just a fraction short but it gets worse if you have several lamainated layers on top as they are all the shorter dimension.  

 

Because there are a number of laminations, you want a good sized iron and use good 145 degree solder, not anything else.  And if you have not found 100 degree solder yet, that is what you want for the whitemetal parts.  I only discovered this about a couple of years ago, and it is so much easier than any other solution for white metal parts.

 

I would give very serious consideration to the use of sprung W-irons on the 6 wheeled fish van - try the Bill Bedfords.  Even in 00, the possibility of rocking on the central axle is there and if it is even a fraction low, the vehicle will derail.  I would also give some thought to a sliding central axle although in 00 this is probably not essential.  I have shown how I do 6 wheeled vehicles here and here.

 

Enjoy!

 

 

Thank you immensely for the drawing and other info. The reason I figured DJH had updated their etches was due to a partially assembled kit that was being sold on Hattons not long ago. I have attached the picture below and it shows a completed footplate and bogie which are entirely different from mine and you can see on the fret there is the outline of it as well so not the previous owners own creation.

 

What size iron would you recommend exactly because I was about to order one. I had read on here before people saying a 25w was good enough for most jobs and was used to build many of their own kits. I suppose you think this is not the case?

 

Speaking of your blog and website I had thought about ordering a Dia 51 Full Brake at some point.

 

Thanks again,

 

Matti

Edited September 9, 2020 by Matti8

[uax6]

That's doesn't looks like a River kit to me, is a Caley 4-6-0? Its certainly not a DJH kit, as they is far too much etch in it!

 

In my limited experience of w/metal bashing I use an aldi temperature controlled iron, which works very well for less that £20 quid.

I have a 25W normal one that I use on etches fine. But get a good tip cleaner (brass wire wool) and use good fluxes.

 

Andy G

[Matti8]

1 hour ago, uax6 said:

That's doesn't looks like a River kit to me, is a Caley 4-6-0? Its certainly not a DJH kit, as they is far too much etch in it!

 

In my limited experience of w/metal bashing I use an aldi temperature controlled iron, which works very well for less that £20 quid.

I have a 25W normal one that I use on etches fine. But get a good tip cleaner (brass wire wool) and use good fluxes.

 

Andy G

I don't see how it could be be a Caley because that tender is without a doubt the one I have for my River and if you look at where the cab has been removed that is definitely not the shape from a 60 or 956.

 

Matti

Edited September 9, 2020 by Matti8

[uax6]

The etches for the coupling rods, and the brass footplate and valances are certainly not standard DJH fodder, maybe he draw them up himself?

I'm very poor at CR locos, it was a bit of a punt!

 

Andy G

[Matti8]

1 hour ago, uax6 said:

The etches for the coupling rods, and the brass footplate and valances are certainly not standard DJH fodder, maybe he draw them up himself?

I'm very poor at CR locos, it was a bit of a punt!

 

Andy G

That's the only logical conclusion I can come to. As much of a mystery to you as it is to me!

 

Matti

Edited September 10, 2020 by Matti8

[Portchullin Tatty]

On 09/09/2020 at 23:02, Matti8 said:

Thank you immensely for the drawing and other info. The reason I figured DJH had updated their etches was due to a partially assembled kit that was being sold on Hattons not long ago. I have attached the picture below and it shows a completed footplate and bogie which are entirely different from mine and you can see on the fret there is the outline of it as well so not the previous owners own creation.

 

What size iron would you recommend exactly because I was about to order one. I had read on here before people saying a 25w was good enough for most jobs and was used to build many of their own kits. I suppose you think this is not the case?

 

Speaking of your blog and website I had thought about ordering a Dia 51 Full Brake at some point.

 

Thanks again,

 

Matti

 

 

Hi Matti,

 

On the question of soldering irons and the like, there is a degree of personal preference involved.

 

I use two irons; for most stuff I use a soldering station a bit like this one rated at 50W.  It is important to have a couple of bits though; a pretty fine one for getting into tight spots and then a larger flat headed one for more general use when a little more umph is required.  This is relevant because a fine point can not deliver the power to the piece no matter what rating the iron is.

 

In addition to this, I have a big beast of an iron rated at 80W, like this one (but a Weller).  This has a big bit and can only really be used for seating quite bits of metal together.  Although it is rated at 80W, if you leave it on for more than 15 mins, the arm that contains the element can start to glow slightly, so it definitely gets hot and I keep it on for only brief periods because I am a bit scared of it!!

 

I also use quite a strong flux - call La-Co,  This is a plumbers flux that is definitely strong and you must wash the components thoroughly at the end of the session and if you are a bit of mucky solderer (like me), any steel tools too.  Having said this, it is in a paste which has the advantage that it stays where you put it and is completely soluble sodoes wash off easily (or you can leave things to soak for half an hour).  Thus, it does not give you problems later down the line with painting - beware most other paste type fluxes might.

 

My advice on soldering is that the parts must be properly clean (use a glass fibre brush or wet and dry), you need to use a good modelling solder (ie not an electricians solder) and make sure you are using a flux that will last on the part long enough for the solder to flow.  Use a good amount of heat, but quickly.  I rarely turn my iron down, even for white metal soldering. 

 

A worthwhile guide to soldering is the Carrs Handbook; available here or in a condensed version for free here.

 

[Londontram]

On 10/09/2020 at 00:49, uax6 said:

The etches for the coupling rods, and the brass footplate and valances are certainly not standard DJH fodder, maybe he draw them up himself?

I'm very poor at CR locos, it was a bit of a punt!

 

Andy G

Andy just stand in the corner and be quite unless you spoken too. Bloody young today just have no manners or disaplin. 

 I would say that is definitely a River kit judging by the step up over the cylinders, I would say the only Caley loco to come close would be a class 60 but the step is way to big for that.

 As Andy will tell you I was pretty much welded to the Caledonian but of late I've been temted by the dark (green) side and with some swaps and eBay purchases plus a couple of very lucky gift acquisitions I'm now building up quite a pile of Highland kits to look at along side the Caley stock I have to do.

 

 The eventual aim is a Caley based layout to which the Highland have running rights.

 

 It's all Andy's fault!

Edited September 25, 2020 by Londontram
Add info

[Matti8]

On 25/09/2020 at 05:08, Londontram said:

Andy just stand in the corner and be quite unless you spoken too. Bloody young today just have no manners or disaplin. 

 I would say that is definitely a River kit judging by the step up over the cylinders, I would say the only Caley loco to come close would be a class 60 but the step is way to big for that.

 As Andy will tell you I was pretty much welded to the Caledonian but of late I've been temted by the dark (green) side and with some swaps and eBay purchases plus a couple of very lucky gift acquisitions I'm now building up quite a pile of Highland kits to look at along side the Caley stock I have to do.

 

 The eventual aim is a Caley based layout to which the Highland have running rights.

 

 It's all Andy's fault!

 

Ah I don't blame you that's why I like the idea of doing a LMS layout. Caley and Highland locos running side by side as if they were meant for eachother. We have the Drummond's to thank for that.

 

Whenever I start planning to make a 66 or 80 from a T9 I get caught up with Bens too! I just can't help myself. 

 

Matti

[uax6]

Only use the T9's for Big Bens mind! The Wee Bens are significantly less tall, and the Sutherland kit is well worth the buy for them. Dave at SEF will spin one for you, although a few bits are missing from the moulds, but they are just details you can make up yourself (I've got a couple in the part built pile, that I must document and continue with!). The chassis for these might be a bit more of a challenge, I know Richard is using Adams radials, and Brian at Branchlines didn't have the specific ones in the haul when I spoke to him, but the Caley 4-4-0s and the D49 chassis are the same, so could be used.

 

Andy G