Eurostar to stop serving Ebbsfleet and Ashford International stations until 2022

[Liam]

Taken from BBC News live updates: 

 

‘Ebbsfleet and Ashford stations, in Kent, are to be mothballed after an "unprecedented fall in demand".

 

It means passengers in Kent will need to start their journeys at St Pancras, in London.

 

In a statement Eurostar said: "Covid-19 has had a severe impact on the travel industry and on our business and we continue to operate in very challenging conditions.

"We have experienced an unprecedented fall in demand, with bookings down by 90% compared to last year.

"The environment remains very unpredictable and has been exacerbated by quarantine restrictions which are now across all of our markets."

 

The rail operator said it had not taken the decision not to reopen Ebbsfleet and Ashford before 2022 lightly, but said because of the "severity of the situation" it had to take action.’

Edited September 3, 2020 by SVRlad

[Joseph_Pestell]

It's not just passengers in Kent affected by this. For many locations in the South East it is far more convenient to get to Ebbsfleet or Ashford than join the scrum to get into St Pancras.

[Wickham Green too]

I trust they're only mothballing the Eurostar platforms at Ashford, not the whole thing ............... shouldn't inconvenience too many people as b****r all stopped there anyway.

[Oldddudders]

My Eurostar last week - 12.24, I think, from St P - was reasonably loaded, but I was shocked to note the next one was nearly 6 hours later! With that and Brittany Ferries cancelling all sailings to St Malo and Le Havre, the Cross-Channel market is in dire straits (sorry). 

[great central]

^^^. Does that mean having paid for your ticket and no train it's money for nothing?

 

Hat, anorak, I'm outta here

[Fat Controller]

3 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

I trust they're only mothballing the Eurostar platforms at Ashford, not the whole thing ............... shouldn't inconvenience too many people as b****r all stopped there anyway.

There were two fairly key services that picked up a lot of traffic at Ashford. One was the 'Disney' train, the other were the Friday evening 'ski trains'. The travellers chose Ashford because of the accessible (if expensive) car parking; the amount of baggage they travelled with was quite amazing.

[Michael Hodgson]

I can see there might not be enough traffic at present to justify manning these stations now, but 2022 is a long way off.  SUrely it is conceivable that demand may have picked up somewhat by spring or summer next year, if for example they get one of these vaccines to work and deployed.

[adb968008]

35 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

I can see there might not be enough traffic at present to justify manning these stations now, but 2022 is a long way off.  SUrely it is conceivable that demand may have picked up somewhat by spring or summer next year, if for example they get one of these vaccines to work and deployed.

Most people book holidays in early January... that may be too soon for a vaccine and many may defer booking holidays until things are more stable.

i’m not expecting much from a Winter ski season year, or Easter for that matter.

 

if people are slow to book a summer holiday too, then the whole season is done, so may as well wait until 2022.

 

I’m not sure what business-travel is going to look like in the future (I was a real road warrior for 22 years until Feb 2020.. At least 100k by air, 30-40 trips domestic and Eurostar a half dozen times a year.. my expense spend was c£2k-£3k a week on travel.... This year.. Ive not had an expense receipt since March.. but i’m still hitting my targets doing it all online... its going to be hard convincing management to open their wallets as wide as they used to post covid, post Brexit, for business travel.. I think that market is dead, much fewer businesses are going to routinely pay £500 for a 6-7am to Brussels or a £300 pre9am to Manchester in the future, if a Zoom can do several meetings same day  for close to £0... the genies out of the lamp and its dancing round the room.

 

Travel, especially those reliant on business and commuting is in for a rough few years. Even if a vaccine appears on Jan 1st, average Eurostar passenger wont get it for months, but theres the issues of unemployment, Brexit, recession weighing on peoples minds.. theres no vaccine for that... its going to take time... BA’s reckoning 5 years to recover.

Edited September 3, 2020 by adb968008

[Wickham Green too]

9 hours ago, adb968008 said:

..... i’m not expecting much from a Winter ski season ....

I seem to recall the whole covid thing in Europe kicked off from a single ski party ..............

[GeoffAlan]

16 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

It's not just passengers in Kent affected by this. For many locations in the South East it is far more convenient to get to Ebbsfleet or Ashford than join the scrum to get into St Pancras.

 Not just the SE. Last time I went to Paris I drove to Ashford, paid for secure parking and caught the EUROSTAR. 

The cost of parking, petrol and a Motorway meal stop was less than the single rail fare for one to KX. As there was two of us we saved a fortune. AND......

Our home station for the KX train is Darlington. The return fare for one Darlington to KX and back was more than the petrol, parking and Eurostar return fare for both of us. 

[adb968008]

56 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

I seem to recall the whole covid thing in Europe kicked off from a single ski party ..............

I think the whole thing kicked off because of denial and delays by several governments at several points in the formative stage of this crisis... China, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, UK and US all dropped the ball.

 

No one was looking, shut the door too late thinking what was happening was  impossible and protected their economies before their people.

 

The WHO was dead right in January, when they said you can pay less for it now or pay more for it later, but you will pay for it. Those who elected to pay less stand out without need to mention.

Covid is here for years, but should become less relevant over time now that herd immunity is being implemented.

 

 

Edited September 4, 2020 by adb968008

[37114]

10 hours ago, adb968008 said:

I’m not sure what business-travel is going to look like in the future (I was a real road warrior for 22 years until Feb 2020.. At least 100k by air, 30-40 trips domestic and Eurostar a half dozen times a year.. my expense spend was c£2k-£3k a week on travel.... This year.. Ive not had an expense receipt since March.. but i’m still hitting my targets doing it all online... its going to be hard convincing management to open their wallets as wide as they used to post covid, post Brexit, for business travel.. I think that market is dead, much fewer businesses are going to routinely pay £500 for a 6-7am to Brussels or a £300 pre9am to Manchester in the future, if a Zoom can do several meetings same day  for close to £0... the genies out of the lamp and its dancing round the room.

 

Travel, especially those reliant on business and commuting is in for a rough few years. Even if a vaccine appears on Jan 1st, average Eurostar passenger wont get it for months, but theres the issues of unemployment, Brexit, recession weighing on peoples minds.. theres no vaccine for that... its going to take time... BA’s reckoning 5 years to recover.

 

I am in the same boat as you, I used to use Eurostar once or twice a month over to our offices near Lille, and used to fly to Eastern Europe countries 3 - 4 times a year, and was in hotels 1-2 nights per week. Our travel expenses as a company were huge but since March I have not even been to our UK offices and we have been as productive as ever while the business is saving a load of money. One of my colleagues lives 10 mins from Ashford so if we were travelling the news would be bad news for her but the reality is it will probably have no difference as since Covid any travel expeniture has to be signed off at senior level and has to be essential.

 

I am aware the Government is desperate to get people back into inner city offices for the coffee shops, fast food sellers and local shops for employment but for me that is like saying we should keep burning coal to keep the coal miners employed. The reality is the world has shown you don't need to travel everywhere to be productive and instead we should instead be looking at how do we adapt offices to be housing/co working space so people who want the city life can live it and in doing so bring people back into inner cities for the right reasons and support the local bars in the right way...

[adb968008]

18 minutes ago, 37114 said:

 

I am aware the Government is desperate to get people back into inner city offices for the coffee shops, fast food sellers and local shops for employment but for me that is like saying we should keep burning coal to keep the coal miners employed. The reality is the world has shown you don't need to travel everywhere to be productive and instead we should instead be looking at how do we adapt offices to be housing/co working space so people who want the city life can live it and in doing so bring people back into inner cities for the right reasons and support the local bars in the right way...

And thats the crux of it, I miss travel, I miss the meeting people aspect to the job. I also see that the business volumes are growing existing relationships, new business is increasingly dependant on being found on the net. That pull, and demand wont be sustained forever.

 

I suspect that desire to travel, and that need to be in front of people to create new business will eventually bring some travel back. However I doubt it will return to previous peaks.  People wont need as many desks as they wont need to go everyday and so office space becomes less of a ball and chain.
 

Conference rooms for team meetings rented by the day is a more likely future.. now there is oppourtunity..

 

I once did a conference at the Lion Park in Johannesburg.. of the thousands of meetings ive held around the world, that memory stands out, because of the choice of location... Try selling software with Lions around you.. real ones..and we had an outdoor BBQ with them watching us.

Ive met at a country house in Cheshire for a well known UK bank, and another in Southampton for a well known retailer. These places already exist, but have potential to capitalise much larger.

 

If companies move from centralised city offices, the oppourtunities to meet become less restrictive and if removed from central city constraints, potentially cheaper and more ambient too... Perhaps even preserved railways offering meeting, conference and catering facilities could benefit ?
 

if you had a choice of a monthly meeting in Zone 1, or a meeting in a more leisurely location, which will you opt to...Theres always oppourtunity in change.

 

 

Edited September 4, 2020 by adb968008

[Joseph_Pestell]

If one took a typical office building and converted 75% of it to apartments, people could have the best of both worlds. Work from home or pop down in the lift to the office.

[adb968008]

12 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

If one took a typical office building and converted 75% of it to apartments, people could have the best of both worlds. Work from home or pop down in the lift to the office.

I’m lying on my bed as I write this.

My next meeting is in 63 minutes.

My office is 3 metres away across the landing.

Between me and it, is a pile of loco boxes waiting to be sorted and lunch downstairs, and a bunch of emails to read.

 

Why commute 60 minutes each way to Zone 1 ?

My work life balance is much better, it does need flexibility (i do more late night/early calls than I used to, but it balances, i’m less knackered, eating better, lost weight, more exercised than standing souless on Thameslink for £30 a time early am and late pm, and those blue and red boxes provide a more pleasant distraction on the boring calls, than a painting of flowers on an office wall.

 

 

Edited September 4, 2020 by adb968008

[phil-b259]

17 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

I’m lying on my bed as I write this.

My next meeting is in 63 minutes.

My office is 3 metres away across the landing.

Between me and it, is a pile of loco boxes waiting to be sorted and lunch downstairs, and a bunch of emails to read.

 

Why commute 60 minutes each way to Zone 1 ?

My work life balance is much better, it does need flexibility (i do more late night/early calls than I used to, but it balances, i’m less knackered, eating better, lost weight, more exercised than standing souless on Thameslink for £30 a time early am and late pm, and those blue and red boxes provide a more pleasant distraction on the boring calls, than a painting of flowers on an office wall.

 

 

 

The key sentence is "my office is 3m away across the landing"

 

There are an awful lot of people not as fortunate as you - Recently I read of a young couple one of whom had to be perched on the bed when working from home while the other used the living room table, both needing privacy from each other but living in a smallish one bedroom flat. This is not good for peoples long term health (bad posture) nor is it a professional environment for video calls etc.

 

Similarly there was an article where another person working from home noted they were suffering from severe back pain due to the use of home furniture while hunched over a laptop. When this person was able to return to her office the back pain eased as they had a properly designed office chair and desk to use that enabled the correct posture to be maintained.

 

As has been noted elsewhere business stands to gain far more than the ordinary worker out of this 'working from home' malarkey. Its not that different to the 'SMART' salary sacrifice schemes many firms have adopted in past years - they sell it to the workers as you making a small saving on national insurance contributions, but the real benefit actually occurs to the business and shareholders who stand to save a vastly grater amount.

 

My take is that if companies want people to work from home then they should pay for proper ergonomically designed office furniture to be supplied to the employee and pay a contribution towards heating, lighting costs (i.e. everything they save on paying for because they no longer have to hire office space). In an ideal world there would also be some mechanism where those able to could also claim an extra payment so as to build a dedicated 'home office' (as an extension or loft conversion) or move to a property which provides this so as to ensure proper isolation from other family members can be maintained  - though this is more problematic as unlike office furniture which could be taken back if the person no longer works for the firm that supplied it, knocking down a room is not a practical option.

 

 

[caradoc]

29 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

I’m lying on my bed as I write this.

My next meeting is in 63 minutes.

My office is 3 metres away across the landing.

Between me and it, is a pile of loco boxes waiting to be sorted and lunch downstairs, and a bunch of emails to read.

 

Why commute 60 minutes each way to Zone 1 ?

 

On the other hand, my son is working, at home (MY home) 1600-2000 today, during which time I will not be able to use any upstairs part of my house (fortunately we have a downstairs toilet), work on my layout in the loft, play loud music or have the TV turned up..... Oh, and I'm paying to provide his 'office', its furniture, seating, heating and power supply. So, while I agree that while working from home can clearly be a solution for some (and if so, that is obviously beneficial to them and their employer), it is not a universal panacea, and some degree of city office working will and must return.

 

I would also mention the lack of social interaction resulting from home working; This for me was an important part of my working life and which, despite the huge benefits of now being retired, I still miss greatly. 

 

 

[phil-b259]

11 minutes ago, caradoc said:

 

 

I would also mention the lack of social interaction resulting from home working; This for me was an important part of my working life and which, despite the huge benefits of now being retired, I still miss greatly. 

 

 

 

Very much an overlooked side effect this, particularly for single people who live on their own or who don't get on particularly well socially with their flatmates etc.

 

Falling into the first category I know I would be going crazy right now if it wasn't for the fact I am still going out to work as part of a team, after all most of the other hobbies / interests I have (such as dancing) have been cancelled for the duration of the pandemic while many others are restricted to those who live in 'baubles' with others.

 

In summary 'working from home' (outside the 'gig economy') strikes me as only really being suited to middle income home owners with the space to do it well. For everyone else its unsatisfactory and we should not be perpetuating it for longer than necessary.

[spamcan61]

10 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

In summary 'working from home' (outside the 'gig economy') strikes me as only really being suited to middle income home owners with the space to do it well. For everyone else its unsatisfactory and we should not be perpetuating it for longer than necessary.

Well yes there are people who can't / don't want to work form home, but that still leaves millions of people who have been forced  to waste minutes / hours of their lives every working day for years, travelling to and from somewhere they don't really need to be: trying to force them to go back that that routine is insane in my view, and bad for the environment.

[Zomboid]

I think after all this is over there will be significantly more home working than there was before, but not too the extent that it has been the last few months. I don't see a return to everyone being in the office all the time, but it's not going to be nobody ever going to the office either. We've been maintaining our existing teams of late, but building new relationships as people move around, and training new starters and the like is hard enough face to face, never mind doing it via video calls.

 

Business travel for meetings might well be more significantly impacted, as there was little point previously in travelling for a whole day for a couple of hours chatting, and the reality of that should be clear. If there's a product to inspect or similar then that can't be done remotely though.

[Michael Hodgson]

1 hour ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

If one took a typical office building and converted 75% of it to apartments, people could have the best of both worlds. Work from home or pop down in the lift to the office.

"Living above the shop" like the late Maggie Thatcher is OK if you don't mind living in the same building as the office bore, that A***hole of a boss etc.

 

On the other hand it's great if everybody gets on and you all want to go for a curry after work and not have everybody travelling home on the last train from different stations as was the case when I worked in central London.

 

The convenience falls apart when you tell the boss where to stick it and go get a job with somebody else!  To reinstate that convenience you would have to move house - and dismantle your layout to go - to live above the new employer,  But you'd have to anyway if it's a tied cottage (like 10 Downing Street)!  Not many British politicians are into modelling, although the situation is rather different in Germany.

 

However, if the media are right about a significant number of people working from home permanently, there will be less demand for offices, and I do agree it would make sense to convert some of them to residential use instead, where the buildings are suitable.

 

I think London is unusual compared to other capital cities in that nearly everybody working in the central area has a long commute.

[phil-b259]

13 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

Well yes there are people who can't / don't want to work form home, but that still leaves millions of people who have been forced  to waste minutes / hours of their lives every working day for years, travelling to and from somewhere they don't really need to be: trying to force them to go back that that routine is insane in my view, and bad for the environment.

 

Its just as bad to Force people to work from home when they don't have the space or kit to do so!

 

Yes you and others may save on commuting time - but if a large section of society are suffering from health problems (mental or physical) then I would say commuting is the lesser of two evils.

 

The problem is if business says 'working from home means we can get rid of office space - what happens to those for whom 'working from home' is NOT enjoyable or good for their health?

 

I'm very much with the French on this - time spent working must be kept separate from personal time - the Anglo-Saxon tradition of mixing the two in the pursuit of profit is morally wrong, plus leads to a lousy work - life balance.

 

I stress I have no issue with the principle of working from home - but I do take issue when its forced on people. Lots of articles or comments written by those who do have a good 'working at home setup' completely fail to take into account the difficulties others may face and adopt a stunningly self centred tone of " well its worked out fine for me so stop complaining"

 

Edited September 4, 2020 by phil-b259

[spamcan61]

1 minute ago, phil-b259 said:

The problem is if business says 'working from home means we can get rid of office space - what happens to those for whoam 'working from home' is NOT enjoyable or good for their health?

 

I'm very much with the French on this - time spent working must be kept separate from personal time - the Anglo-Saxon tradition of mixing the two in the pursuit of profit is morally wrong, plus leads to a lousy work - life balance.

 

Well, presumably the same as those currently forced to commute that don't find it enjoyable or good for their health, they like it or lump it - as in pretty much all aspects of life you can't please everybody. I don't think many firms  are looking to unilaterally dump their office space anyway, more a case of hot desking and going into the office maybe 1 day a week.  Personally my job has been pretty 'hands on' for the last few years, so I've been back to commuting since late April :-/ , I'm looking at the bigger picture.

 

I agree completely that work and personal time should be kept separate and I've always been disciplined about that; and yes, working from home could make that worse for those lacking in self discipline, but I'd say mobile phones and people's inability to ignore them is a much bigger  problem there than working from home.

[Oldddudders]

17 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

 Not many British politicians are into modelling,

As distinct from meddling.....

[phil-b259]

6 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

 

I agree completely that work and personal time should be kept separate and I've always been disciplined about that; and yes, working from home could make that worse for those lacking in self discipline

 

Or space.

 

One of the best ways of doing this is to have a dedicated home office (suitably furnished with a popper office chair, laptop mount, foot rest, etc) - you don't take ANY work (or carry out work related activities) out of that room and you don't go into that room other than for work.

 

If however your 'home office is the kitchen worktop, bedroom then maintaining such a disciplined outlook is considerably more difficult - particularly if you share the property with another home worker or have distractions like young children around the house.

 

Given that most houses do not come with a home office (if you have one its normally because you happen to have a spare bedroom or an extension has been built to create one, I suggest that the majority of those currently working from home are at a disadvantage from the start....