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A about a year ago, I was gifted for my a birthday a only fired once Bassett Lowke live steam Stanier Mogul, in BR lined black. Said engine has had its fair share of problems, but these should be fixed very soon. Then for Xmas I was gifted some BL BR Mk 1s, which I have been repainting. My dream is to construct a portable oval layout, with a few period accessories and a home for my small collection of dinky toys. Said layout will be able to be constructed either outdoors or in, depending on the weather. Hopefully some wagons will also be acquired in near future, however I am torn between nice shiny new Ace Trains products or Leeds Model Co wagons. 
 

The track is all by Lionel, so is fairly cheap and readily available, a luxury for me. As for accessories, I hope to get the Ace Trains repro Carette for Bassett Lowke water tower. I think I also might have a go at constructing a station or goods shed from wood, and maybe a signal bridge from Meccano. 


Your comments, suggestion, words of moral support (should they be required), and general thoughts are much appreciated. 
 

For anyone interested, the full saga of my Mogul is viewable here, in some detail.https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/modelsteam/a-seriously-troubled-bassett-lowke-mogul-t110715.html

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Edited by Florence Locomotive Works
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SWMBO would have a fit if I laid out track all over the floor like that! :o  (Above all live steam....)

 

I did sneak a bit of Hornby while she was away, but cleared away all the evidence.

 

I've never associated Bassett-Lowke with 'cheap'!

Edited by Il Grifone
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Just finished doing the red panels on the coaches. Now for an almost complete relining. Yes, you can see the brush strokes, but I don’t notice it. A few bits of red seeped under the masking and got into the cream, so some careful dissolution is in order.  

 

 

- Douglas

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Bassett Lowke can be affordable especially the post war stuff, it just takes time and patience to track them down. The majority of traders see the Bassett Lowke label and think they have won the lottery but the reality is there isn’t a great deal of demand for the more common all garden items, things get even better if you don’t mind unboxed bent, battered and scratched. I’ve also  noticed of late dealers upping the price of Leeds items to eye watering levels when only a few years back they were considered to be almost worthless.

Below are a few pictures of what I class as reasonable pricing, two tinplate B/Lowke wagons in poor condition @£4 each and a Wooden Leeds Coach with lithograph paper [email protected]£20 all of them will need varying degrees of work but that’s all part of the fun. At least I think it is or does the asylum beckon.

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42 minutes ago, Bassettblowke said:

Bassett Lowke can be affordable especially the post war stuff, it just takes time and patience to track them down. The majority of traders see the Bassett Lowke label and think they have won the lottery but the reality is there isn’t a great deal of demand for the more common all garden items, things get even better if you don’t mind unboxed bent, battered and scratched. I’ve also  noticed of late dealers upping the price of Leeds items to eye watering levels when only a few years back they were considered to be almost worthless.

Below are a few pictures of what I class as reasonable pricing, two tinplate B/Lowke wagons in poor condition @£4 each and a Wooden Leeds Coach with lithograph paper [email protected]£20 all of them will need varying degrees of work but that’s all part of the fun. At least I think it is or does the asylum beckon.

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On the tracking them down I certainly agree with you. Problem is such things rarely come up for sale in my neck of the woods, and shipping from the U.K. right now is supposed to be outrageous. But that seems to be the only way. The post war stuff would be best for my layout, would you happen to know any retailers (that you can divulge) who sell such things? I also agree with you on Leeds prices, they seem to be increasing at an alarming rate. I’ve found a few Leeds wagons in the USA, in poor condition unfortunately but still worthy of being on the eBay watch list. I’m also on the hunt for a BR mk 1 full corridor, however those seem to be rocketing upwards as well. 

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Looking at them, the coaches you have look to be representative of ex-LMS Stanier coaches rather than Mk.1, though quite appropriate given the Mogul is loosely based on the LMS Hughes 'Crab'. Lionel do some Mk.1 style coaches for their Howarts Castle (a Castle which is actually a GWR Hall). I don't know how well they might look in terms of size, but they might be easier to get in the US.

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She's a Stanier Mogul surely?

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We share a similar problem, I have an interest in post war Lionel and Marx and once upon a very happy time sourced the majority of my purchases from the USA and Canada. This all came to a grinding halt when transatlantic shipping charges went through the roof, not forgetting the punitive customs and handling charges that were also imposed when the goods reached the UK.

A decade or so ago Royal Mail ruled the roost and we had an efficient and cost effective postal service, now we have an open market and loads of competition in the marketplace. The result,  prices have gone through the roof as all these new carriers seek to get their snouts in the booming profits trough. Not much use to us but a sure fire winner for the shareholders.

i would recommend stopthedropauction.com which I use, the three items above all came from this seller, its run by John Neale. I am not sure if he ships abroad but his UK shipping charges are very fair.

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11 minutes ago, Il Grifone said:

She's a Stanier Mogul surely?

 

It looks more like a Stanier mogul than a Crab.

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"Snouts in the trough" is what privatisation is all about!

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I would also add that with regard to Leeds LMC products there is a thriving spares back up from the Leeds Stedman trust and two independent enthusiasts  Bruce Palmer and John Davies who can supply most parts required to renovate Leeds products. The trust which is run by David Peacock a very helpful and informative guy also has a sales page on its website.

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Postwar BL ‘ordinary’ things, those that were produced in substantial numbers by Precision Models for BL, rather than small-batch or bespoke models, are exceedingly good value for money, only very expensive if in absolute pristine condition, and even then you can still find fairly-priced ones. The postwar stuff doesn’t have the cachet of the older things, and it isn’t mega-popular because a lot of it is frankly very plain, not shiny or colourful ........ all of which is why I collect it!

 

Items from the BL Society Chairman, who occasionally trades what I think are BLS member estate disposals via eBay, are always priced realistically - I’ve bought a couple of things from him and he seems more  concerned that they are going to a custodian who will cherish them than he is about ‘getting the last dollar’. Just watch the market for a few months, dealers, eBay, auctions etc, to get a proper understanding of real prices, rather than the fantasy prices  that things are often advertised at.
 

And, don’t get confused by the prices of postwar ‘specials’, some of which will reach above £10k for a loco, or of the locos that were only produced in small batches - these are genuinely rare things, maybe only two examples in existence in the former case.

 

Pre-war stuff is more complicated, because owning the locos and keeping them working is more like running a museum than playing trains. The ‘support network’ for old-BL isn’t as developed as that for Hornby, so apart from the steamers, which have a very active community around them, it tends to be for very skilled lone-wolves.


The BL Society is forever teetering on the brink of extinction, because the number of members is quite small, and many are as old as their locos, which is to say ‘not young’, but is well worth joining if only to learn the history, of which this maker has a lot.

 

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6 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Postwar BL ‘ordinary’ things, those that were produced in substantial numbers by Precision Models for BL, rather than small-batch or bespoke models, are exceedingly good value for money, only very expensive if in absolute pristine condition, and even then you can still find fairly-priced ones. The postwar stuff doesn’t have the cachet of the older things, and it isn’t mega-popular because a lot of it is frankly very plain, not shiny or colourful ........ all of which is why I collect it!

 

Items from the BL Society Chairman, who occasionally trades what I think are BLS member estate disposals via eBay, are always priced realistically - I’ve bought a couple of things from him and he seems more  concerned that they are going to a custodian who will cherish them than he is about ‘getting the last dollar’. Just watch the market for a few months, dealers, eBay, auctions etc, to get a proper understanding of real prices, rather than the fantasy prices  that things are often advertised at.
 

And, don’t get confused by the prices of postwar ‘specials’, some of which will reach above £10k for a loco, or of the locos that were only produced in small batches - these are genuinely rare things, maybe only two examples in existence in the former case.

 

Pre-war stuff is more complicated, because owning the locos and keeping them working is more like running a museum than playing trains. The ‘support network’ for old-BL isn’t as developed as that for Hornby, so apart from the steamers, which have a very active community around them, it tends to be for very skilled lone-wolves.


The BL Society is forever teetering on the brink of extinction, because the number of members is quite small, and many are as old as their locos, which is to say ‘not young’, but is well worth joining if only to learn the history, of which this maker has a lot.

 

I will defiantly be joining the BL Society, (sometime soon) and would probably be it’s youngest member as I haven’t even started college yet. I like to think of myself as err, “mildly” experienced with the BL eBay market, having been watching it for a year or so. My two coaches came from Ohio off eBay. In the USA there is also currently a full take of Darstaed tinplate BR mk 1s for sale at very reasonable price, everybody’s thoughts are much appreciated. https://www.ebay.com/itm/292477089313
 

So I would venture to say I’m a bit torn between that and wagons. Those coaches would be far less hassle to get to NE Oklahoma, but they aren’t what moguls pulled most often. At least my engine is in nice enough condition to match them. There are also a few sets of Ace tankers for sale in NY, which would go well with the Darstaed vans also for sale from somewhere up East. Advice is much appreciated. I would get some Leeds wagons, but the USPS is currently run by a mobster and shipping will be a nightmare, so I think it’s better to stick with some domestically available wagons. 

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A couple of thoughts:

 

In Britain at least, moguls were used as the ultimate in "do anything" locos, and while I don't know much if anything about LMS/BR(M) practice (as opposed to SR/BR(S)) there seem to be plenty of photos around showing Stanier moguls on passenger trains. In short, I think you can choose between coaches and wagons on the basis of preference, rather than typicality.

 

I think that nearly all of the tank wagons made by Ace are pre-nationalisation (or, in a couple of fairly obvious cases, entirely imaginary). Tank wagon liveries, certainly for petrol and fuel oil tankers, became a lot plainer during the 40s, 50s, and early 60s, before bursting out in colours again after that. At the date of your mogul's livery petrol tankers were, almost universally I think, painted plain aluminium with red solebars. I haven't been able to find a tinplate one like that, so have resorted to painting the solebars of an alumium coloured pre-war one in red, thus creating an immediately pre-war livery, as the nearest equivalent.

 

You could well hit similar livery issues with other wagons - relatively few modern tinplate ones represent post-nationalisation liveries, and I don't think any Leeds ones were (I'm open to correction on that). Whether you decide to worry about liveries is down to you - I do, and have two fleets, one for the 1930s and the 1950s.

 

I'm only in the BLS Younger Members Section - I think the Senior Section doesn't admit anyone under 70, possibly 75 (joke).

 

 

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10 hours ago, Il Grifone said:

She's a Stanier Mogul surely?

 

10 hours ago, Derekl said:

It looks more like a Stanier mogul than a Crab.

 

A Stanier Mogul would surely have a taper boiler though? It's not really either, exactly, but has some elements of both.

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Whilst I have no experience of BL live steam, I have a Roundhouse Katy. The idea of a layout is almost essential even if it only consists of sections of track on lengths of plywood with catch fence sides. The heat of a live steam engine and it's ability damage it's surroundings if it leaves the track is not to be underestimated. Good luck with the project.

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The BL Moguls were a family that emerged in 1925/6, with versions for each of the Big Four, all based around a core of common parts, and came in steam, electric, and clockwork flavours. The LMS one started-out looking crabby, but became staniery later. None of them was an exact scale model of a particular prototype (you could have that, but you had to order in advance, and pay a lot more!), but they all evoke the real things very effectively.

 

Without digging through oodles of old magazines I can't find a picture of a GWR one, but you'll get the idea from these, which turned-up on a quick whizz through magazines that are near to hand.

 

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Edited by Nearholmer
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You will find some avid ‘’steamers’’ on the Classic O forum, from the little I’ve picked up over the years about the cheaper B/Lowke steam powered models luck has more than a little to do with it. If you have a good one you are likely a very happy man, conversely if you are stuck with a poor performer be prepared for some frustrations. As for Mamod unless you are happy to spend a significant amount on upgrades I wouldn’t even bother.

As regards your purchases unless you are prepared to pay for shipping across the pond you are stuck with what is available in North America, Myself I have a tendency towards the LMS and BR but I don’t let that get in the way of buying a bargain or whatever I fancy. Darstaed coaches are excellent as are ACE with little to choose between the two, the advans by Darstaed maybe a flight of fancy but the livery is based on old Bassett Lowke tinplate signs and the art work is sublime, buy them if the price is right.

If you buy one see if you can find the snail, every van has one somewhere !

 

Afterthought !  if steam is you thing I would suggest having a look at Bowman Models apparently ( I have no personal experience) some of these are quite powerful haulers

Edited by Bassettblowke
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Well a catastrophic problem has been found with the engine courtesy of my incompetence, and can’t be fixed. So I’m not sure what to do with this project. 

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Some times it's better to ask before you commit to spending your long awaited inheritance. Do not by a Bing loco as it will be worse than the BL especially if you get a problem with it.

Without trawling through yet another forum what is the problem with the Mogul?

The live steam book from the G0G has quite a few Mogul improvement described therein.

Rather than investing in locos it might be time to invest in some test equipment so you can make sure safety valves are set to the correct pressure. A gas fired boiler with a pressure gauge and a secondary take off and appropriate bushes for differing safety valve threads might help. You could also use it as a power plant for stationary engines.

You can test a safety valve on your own boiler hydraulically, but you do need a pressure gauge connected so you know what pressure your valve is set for.

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2 hours ago, Happy Hippo said:

Some times it's better to ask before you commit to spending your long awaited inheritance. Do not by a Bing loco as it will be worse than the BL especially if you get a problem with it.

Without trawling through yet another forum what is the problem with the Mogul?

The live steam book from the G0G has quite a few Mogul improvement described therein.

Rather than investing in locos it might be time to invest in some test equipment so you can make sure safety valves are set to the correct pressure. A gas fired boiler with a pressure gauge and a secondary take off and appropriate bushes for differing safety valve threads might help. You could also use it as a power plant for stationary engines.

You can test a safety valve on your own boiler hydraulically, but you do need a pressure gauge connected so you know what pressure your valve is set for.

The mogul would be impossible to fix, it would require taking one of the boiler ends off which is beyond me. The Bing engine is clockwork, something I know fairly well having been fixing both clocks and toys with such a drive system since I was 7. It’s also a bit safer than live steam, and can be run in the garden. And to be completely honest, I’m getting a bit tired of messing about with boilers, valve timing, lamp wicks, solid fuel etc. Maybe that’s just the “Gen Z” in me or my lack of success with such things, mostly down to my own stupidity. 
 

As a bit of tangent, I remember when I was about 9 and for my 8th birthday I had been given a Paya tin clockwork battleship. After about a year, the motor came apart all over the floor, and I considered my options. It was a good 6 hours till my dad came home, and I had recently acquired some pliers, which were begging to be misused:biggrin_mini2:. So after a good 3 hours of messing about with gears and springs on the kitchen floor much to my mothers suspicion, I had it running again. Sadly I someone got rid of it, and the beautiful Paya Bugatti Type 35 I had. Thankfully I still have my Paya be truck, even if it is a bit dusty. 

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Edited by Florence Locomotive Works
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