Braysdown Colliery - Wagon Numbering

[Dazzler Fan]

WRITHLINGTON 1928

 

Does anyone have details of the running numbers for the long gone Braysdown Colliery?
The Writhlington picture accredited to 1903 shows wagons with Dumb-Buffers.

 

My layout is for shunting operations and is designed for maybe 3 operators. I have room

for the few lines in the foreground (not shown),  that I have reproduced from old Track Plans.

 

Noel

[Gordon A]

Have you seen this picture?

 

https://www.jigsawplanet.com/?rc=play&pid=20f9784b6c53

 

It should link you to a digital jigsaw puzzle of a picture of Writhlington Colliery.

Posted from the Radstock museum web site.

 

Gordon

[Compound2632]

On 07/09/2020 at 17:17, Gordon A said:

https://www.jigsawplanet.com/?rc=play&pid=20f9784b6c53

 

That was fun. 

 

No. 67 is an elderly type with antique corner straps in place of a continuous corner plate. No. 96 (? or 95?) has the scotch brake with a single wooden block; No. 92 though otherwise similar, has the more modern double block brake, as does No. 45. These three and the one to the left all look to be 4-plank wagons, probably around 3 ft deep, with 8 ton capacity; No. 67 might be 4 ft deep or nearly so and could be of 10 ton capacity. All, as you note, have dumb buffers so were probably built before 1887. 

 

The best hope for actually discovering fleet numbers is if the private owner registers exist for the company with which the wagons were registered - they're at TNA for some of the larger companies. I don't know about the S&DJR. In any case, wagons built before 1887 may not feature until reconstructed - i.e having their dumb buffers sawn off and replaced with self-contained sprung buffers.

 

@Dazzler Fan, I presume you have this book. 

[MarcD]

There are two other books about the S&D in Radstock . I have them on my bookshelf not quite sure of there names but its on the lines of "Coal from Radstock" vol 1&2. 

I will have a look when I get home tonight

Marc

[Compound2632]

@Dazzler Fan, poking my nose around, I noted the data @wagonman sent you. Apart from the wagons identified from the c. 1900 photo (really enjoyed the online jigsaw!), they're all known from the Great Western PO wagon register. This raises the question of whether there were also wagons registered with the S&DR / S&DJR, for which I presume no PO wagon register survives (otherwise @wagonman would certainly have rooted it out). These might account for gaps in the numbering sequence.

 

EDIT: Another version of the same photo, not cropped at the left, shows the left-most wagon to have a single-digit number, possibly No. 2, with rather shorter wheelbase than the others, and double brakes with wooden blocks.

 

EDIT again: doh! - it's in wagonman's list. 8 ft wheelbase. BTW I believe the dimensons quoted are internal dimensions, so for the external dimensions, add 5" for 2 1/2" sheeting or 6" for 3" sheeting. So for No. 2, quoted as 13'7" x 7'1" x 3'0", my guess would be length over headstocks 14'0", outside width 7'6", and four 9" planks.

Edited September 10, 2020 by Compound2632

[MarcD]

The books are "Radstock Coal an Steam" 1-2 by Chris Handley. I got my copies from the Radstock museum about 10 years ago. With a quick look around there are a few 2nd hand copies available on the net.

Marc

[wagonman]

As Stephen (Compound2632) correctly surmises, I've not had so much as a sniff of an S&D PO wagon register though such a document must surely have existed as even the humble MSWJR had (a very thin) one. A few S&DJR based wagons are to be found in the Midland's registers which are at Kew, there are some early GWR ones at Chippenham I think – I saw them when the were still at Porchester Road – and several subsequent ones were in the hands of a recently deceased private collector with very deep pockets. who kindly gave Ian Pope access to them. Post grouping ones I've not seen though there are a few Plates Registers at York. Available records from the Beauchamp family archive don't give much either. There may be things i've not sniffed out yet...

 

 

[wagonman]

By the way, Dazzler Fan, I should point out that Braysdown Colliery was taken over by Frank Beauchamp in the early 1900s and the wagon stock was presumably absorbed into the Radstock Coal Co fleet if it wasn't scrapped. To the best of my knowledge (possible Black Swan moment) there were no wagons in Braysdown livery in 1928.

[Compound2632]

2 hours ago, wagonman said:

 several subsequent ones were in the hands of a recently deceased private collector with very deep pockets. who kindly gave Ian Pope access to them. 

 

 

I trust that they have been bequeathed to an appropriate archive.

[MarcD]

I did some research on NER private owner wagon a few years ago. There was an opinion that private owner wagons were like hens teeth as there was nothing in the registers. It turns out that people were looking for them in the wrong places. There were a fair few listed in the GNR, GCR, LYR and even Maryport and Carlisle's registers.

So applying the same logic start looking for the in the likes of the LSWR register.

Marc

[Dazzler Fan]

I thank you all for the replies.

 

"The Picture" is genaerally attributed to 1903;

which fits in with what is being reported.

 

I have the Register assembled by the S&DJR Society

that gives the Writhlington Numbers.

 

Noel

[wagonman]

On 12/09/2020 at 06:06, Dazzler Fan said:

I thank you all for the replies.

 

"The Picture" is genaerally attributed to 1903;

which fits in with what is being reported.

 

I have the Register assembled by the S&DJR Society

that gives the Writhlington Numbers.

 

Noel

 

What was the source of this Register, Noel. It would be interesting to compare it with my version!

 

 

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, wagonman said:

 

What was the source of this Register, Noel. It would be interesting to compare it with my version!

 

 

I presume @Dazzler Fan is referring to R. Garner, The Somerset & Dorset Joint Railway Locomotive and Rolling Stock Registers 1886-1930 (The Somerset & Dorset Railway Trust, 2000). This contains a table entitled "Private Owner Wagon Register (Vehicles that were based on, regularly visited, or crossed S&DJR lines)". The primary source for most of the information in this table is cited as private written correspondence with one Richard Kelham, whoever he may be.

[wagonman]

Ah yes, that. Perhaps Mr Kelham is getting forgetful in his old age...