Gill Head: Kirkby Luneside's neighbour

[Physicsman]

10 minutes ago, Andrew P said:

Bit like my walling on Bench Road, part of Seven Mills Sidings.

 

 

Yes, I saw you'd been busy with the wall, bridge and fuel station when I looked in yesterday.

 

My initial plan was to do most of the piers using the Slaters stone sheets. It would have been quicker, but a nightmare to match-up with all the twists, turns and curves in the model. Always provides a good backdrop and is a good screen behind your track, Andy.

 

Jeff

Edited December 16, 2020 by Physicsman
System thinks SLaters is SKaters!

[Physicsman]

Adrian, thanks for those photos.

 

I think my grey mix is a little bit too dark, BUT I don't know why I'm worrying as I'm only building a model, not an exact copy. The missing arches are a bigger discrepancy than the colour.....

 

Sti!l, it nags, and if I can get it close, I'll be happy.

 

Your pics tie in nicely with the view from under Arten Gill which the system insists in duplicating even though it was only put in once!

 

Jeff

 

 

[Winslow Boy]

1 hour ago, figworthy said:

For the colour, not sure if these help.  They are of Dent Head viaduct, taken on a dull day.

 

 

 

And one of Arten Gill from the road up the dale

 

 

Adrian

Now you see to me that looks sandy to me but I suppose to each there own.

[Jason T]

Sorry to butt in Jeff but the colour is far more important than the missing arch. You are using the viaduct as an inspiration and not trying to make an exact replica of it but as such, how it looks is very important and getting that colour right is key.

To me, there's an element of brown in the stone that is used; it's unmistakably grey but a brownish grey, and to not get that tone in there would not represent it correctly.

From a weathering perspective, it's not like it has ever been exposed to smoke and filth being located in the middle of nowhere so it would be natural (as in nature) weathering rather than that caused by man, e.g. mosses, lichen, etc.

 

Also take into consideration that when looking at a 4mm scale model, it is like looking at the structure from some distance, so the photos, etc., that you use to determine the colour should really be from a distance that scales up (if that makes sense); something viewed from 30' away will look a different colour to something viewed from 3' away. I reckon that is why we see the occasional moaning on here about liveries of RTR locomotives, etc. Hornby may use an exact colour that was used on the real thing but it doesn't look right on a model because you are viewing it as if you are 30' away.

[Physicsman]

Jason, you're quite correct in all you've said, but I don't think I made myself as clear as I could have.

 

I am not building an exact copy of Arten Gill, though I will try my best to get a good representation of the place. So I'm not going to overly worry about the colour being out. Trying to match the colour to a place where EVERY colour photo looks different is the road to insanity. And I'm insane enough as it stands! 

 

Jeff

 

 

[peach james]

I have to agree with Jeff on this one- I have some colour photos of Trout Beck taken in 1996, and I have a small sample of roof slate and of lead (with "white" paint) on it.  All the colours are impossible to exactly reproduce- except that the Metcalf kit colours are most definitely wrong for Long Marton.  That much I do know- they are gray, and the stone used in Long Marton is very definitely brown, or sand coloured rather than gray.

 

Certainly, getting the colours somewhere close is important.  However colour perception is a personal thing, and is so very heavily affected by the temperature of the light that the day has.  What Jeff wants for Gill Head is a colour that matches HIS memory of what it looks like- or that's how I'd take it.  

That being said, I think that the colour used ^, is too gray and not brown enough too...but it's my opinion, and those are like your bum- you shouldn't of necessity show them off

James

[BWsTrains]

11 hours ago, Physicsman said:

I think my grey mix is a little bit too dark,

Jeff,

 

As you noted, the shade and lightness seen depends on the ambient light. At the limit i.e. total darkness it of course "looks" black if you get my gist. I faced a similar problem of "which Greys" for my WC&PR wagons.

 

Working with my best available image, one taken in direct light where the overall image histogram showed a balanced spread from Black (0) to white (255), then select a relevant section of wagon wall and assess its histogram to gauge the level of lightness of the greys. 

 

I've done the same starting from your Colour pic, first converting to grey scale and selecting an area of blocks for a histogram analysis This shows the mid point to be at ~100/255 or 61% lightness. By comparison your painted arch comes in at 50% lightness so somewhat darker than the original.

 

 

 

It also appears to have a strong bluish tint, no two greys are the same but that does look to be far too blue compared to the original and to my reference neutral Grey .

 

I've emailed you support material which may offend Copyright.

 

Colin

 

 

 

[lambiedg]

Nothing in modelling rankles more than “correct” colour.

Like beauty colour is in the eye of the beholder.

Carry on doing the things you are Jeff and as long as it suits you your admires can moan if they like.

it’s already stunning.

 

David

[Jason T]

Just to set the record straight here, I am not moaning. It's Jeff's viaduct and he can paint it bright pink if he wants but he also knows that I will bring up such things to assist him. If you look at KL1 and 2, you will see a pattern from my posts, where I question things and give Jeff an opinion.

[Winslow Boy]

Oh can it be bright pink with yellow polka dots please

[Physicsman]

5 hours ago, lambiedg said:

Nothing in modelling rankles more than “correct” colour.

Like beauty colour is in the eye of the beholder.

Carry on doing the things you are Jeff and as long as it suits you your admires can moan if they like.

it’s already stunning.

 

David

 

Thanks David.

 

Colour is indeed subjective, more so when the primary source material varies so much. Jason is spot-on - IF you can get it right, you SHOULD.

 

The liner colour on that last pic was too blue. I've modified the acrylic mix to something more centrally grey with a brownish tint. Washes are being applied - pics when I'm happy to show them, probably tomorrow.

 

Colin's assistance with RGB is appreciated.

 

And David, thanks for your positive comments.

 

Jeff

 

 

[Physicsman]

7 minutes ago, Jason T said:

Just to set the record straight here, I am not moaning. It's Jeff's viaduct and he can paint it bright pink if he wants but he also knows that I will bring up such things to assist him. If you look at KL1 and 2, you will see a pattern from my posts, where I question things and give Jeff an opinion.

 

And I'll agree with those comments and say that it's principally because of  Jason's constructive criticism that I've improved to beyond "train set level".

 

J.

[Winslow Boy]

1 minute ago, Physicsman said:

 

Thanks David.

 

Colour is indeed subjective, more so when the primary source material varies so much. Jason is spot-on - IF you can get it right, you SHOULD.

 

The liner colour on that last pic was too blue. I've modified the acrylic mix to something more centrally grey with a brownish tint. Washes are being applied - pics when I'm happy to show them, probably tomorrow.

 

Colin's assistance with RGB is appreciated.

 

And David, thanks for your positive comments.

 

Jeff

 

 

So it's not going to be bright pink with yellow polka dots.

[Physicsman]

25 minutes ago, Winslow Boy said:

So it's not going to be bright pink with yellow polka dots.

 

No, no , no, no, NO!!!!!!!!!

 

[Kingmoorkid]

I've been lurking for a bit but had this snap from February before we all got locked away.  Not a view of  Arten Gill you see very often, from path to Whernside from Dentdale, but it shows how well it sits in the surroundings.   Colour is not that obvious from a couple of miles away, but the viaducts in Dentdale are certainly more dark grey than brown, however the colour does seem to change with the light.   Anyway experimenting to get a happy medium is all part of the fun. 

 

Simon.

 

 

[Winslow Boy]

Just now, Physicsman said:

 

No, no , no, no, NO!!!!!!!!!

 

I don't know young Jeff you raise my hopes and then you cast them aside without so much of a care. What's wrong with bright pink I think it would be magnificent.

[Kingmoorkid]

If it's any help Ribblehead on the same morning in low morning light, grey tones and brick orange, not much obvious brown unless others see it differently.

[lambiedg]

Perhaps my use of moan in my earlier post was unfair to Jason who’s comments on Jeff’s work are always constructive.

I have never understood the froth colour can cause. At least we’re not getting into loco coulours!

[Physicsman]

31 minutes ago, lambiedg said:

Perhaps my use of moan in my earlier post was unfair to Jason who’s comments on Jeff’s work are always constructive.

I have never understood the froth colour can cause. At least we’re not getting into loco coulours!

 

David, DON'T mention loco colours.....almost as bad as GRASS and SAUSAGES - both icons of KL and KL2 Lunester insanity!

 

Ian, I "may" hope to get the viaduct published in a magazine (not my idea, 5 people have now suggested it). I don't think Andy York, for example, will look positively on a pink viaduct..... 

 

ANDY PETERS!!!!! What on earth have you done to your a avatar?!!!

 

Ho, ho, ho

 

Jeff

Edited December 17, 2020 by Physicsman

[Winslow Boy]

3 hours ago, Physicsman said:

 

David, DON'T mention loco colours.....almost as bad as GRASS and SAUSAGES - both icons of KL and KL2 Lunester insanity!

 

Ian, I "may" hope to get the viaduct published in a magazine (not my idea, 5 people have now suggested it). I don't think Andy York, for example, will look positively on a pink viaduct..... 

 

ANDY PETERS!!!!! What on earth have you done to your a avatar?!!!

 

Ho, ho, ho

 

Jeff

Jeff, Jeff I've cracked it. I have a solution to the colouring problem. Photo manipulation. You know like you do with those pretty pictures you take of the moon. I can have one in pink with yellow spangles, Simon can have dark grey, Mr peach can have brown and you can have what ever colour you want as it's your layout. What do you reckon? Should be a fairly easy job for you to knock up half a dozen versions each time you want to post a shot of the layout. After all that practice it shouldn't take too long -say a hour a photo and once you get into the swing of it you could get that down. Might eat into your modelling time, so you had best cut down on that.

 

Just got to figure out a way to stop the 'wrong' picture being shown. How about if its timed. Do you think you could get everybody to submit what times they log in.

 

Anyway give it a thought. Must dash as Matron is coming with a new jacket. She says it's got extra long arms which I'm confused about because my arms stopped growing in 1988.

 

Ian

[Physicsman]

Quick update.

 

View of piers 5, 4, 3 and 2 (left to right) - these have now been thoroughly mortared. Small pieces of DAS have been sat in a bowl of PVA for the last 4 days and although the DAS blobs remain discrete, they are well and truly saturated with the glue. The slurry is messy, but easy to apply with the fingers. 

 

Don't wipe your hands afterwards - wait 10 minutes and the gunge is easily peeled off.

 

Just short of 5000 stones on now - only another 7,000ish to go!

 

A fair bit of time has also gone into adjusting the grey mix for the arch liners. The 2 pics show the one from 2 days ago and the modified one from an hour ago. The former is much bluer. Thanks to Colin (BWsTrains) for the RGB work done on my images. I'm very happy with the new grey, and it is noticeably less blue with a slight brownish tint.

 

Jeff

 

 

Edited December 18, 2020 by Physicsman

[Andrew P]

Sorted out your Stone colouring Jeff. 1960's Box Brownie Black and White for ALL your pics and then know one can comment.

 

 

[Physicsman]

6 minutes ago, Andrew P said:

Sorted out your Stone colouring Jeff. 1960's Box Brownie Black and White for ALL your pics and then know one can comment.

 

 

 

Good thinking Batman, oops - sorry, Father Peters.....

 

Yep, in a world lacking colour my grey is as GREYt as anyone elses!

 

J.

 

 

[BWsTrains]

2 hours ago, Physicsman said:

I'm very happy with the new grey, and it is noticeably less blue with a slight brownish tint.

 

Agreed! It looks good.

 

Colin

[Winslow Boy]

So young Jeff as you appear to have rejected both of my, perfectly reasonable suggestions I have been forced to activate plan omega. This involves 10,000 m of scaffolding, 50,000 LTRs of bright pink and yellow polka dot paint, specially selected and twenty illegal immigrants, 100 extra wide rollers and finally fifty paint brushes. Project Omega will start once the 'painters' have arrived from Poland and will be done in complete secrecy so as to not scare any roving railway spotters or any agents.

 

All further bulletins will come from Omega HQ.

 

Ian 

Brigafeir RME (Ret)