Gill Head: Kirkby Luneside's neighbour

[Physicsman]

5 hours ago, John Besley said:

No keep building them they look the business

 

Just a question, do you add your fascia panels after you've created your scenery... if so what colour are they going to finish up as...

 

All food for thought as I work out ideas for Exhill Works

 

PM sent, John.

 

9 minutes ago, Ramrig said:

Careful, you making statements like that, the share price of DAS would crash over night. 

 

Behave yourself!

 

Besides, I'm down to my last half-pack of DAS, so it'd better not go out of business.

 

Of course, if I used Photoshop I could use all sorts of gory colours for the walls and surroundings...I

 

J.

[Physicsman]

I've added additional vegetation to around 4 feet of the embankment and the top part - pics attached, last 3 are small "panoramas".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Physicsman]

 

 

Last pic not quite in focus as camera preferred the cabinets!

 

 

Edited November 27, 2021 by Physicsman

[Rowsley17D]

38 minutes ago, Physicsman said:

I've added additional vegetation to around 4 feet of the embankment and the top part - pics attached, last 3 are small "panoramas".

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Those first 3 photos in the first set highlight beautiful differences and changes in vegetation textures

[Physicsman]

Thank you for the interest shown by those who've had a look on here this evening.

 

I very much value your reactions/comments/criticisms/encouragement/general support.

 

It may well be a fair while before the next update, though modelling will continue, as normal.

 

Cheers, folks.

 

Jeff.

[JustinDean]

Really enjoying the expansive scenery on this Jeff. Lovely job!

 

Jay

[John Besley]

With the photo backscene the vista just carries on to infinity and beyond... looking very nice top work Jeff 

[jacko]

Great progress Jeff. If I hold a hand over the white bit in the top photograph I can't tell if it's a model so you're definitely doing something right!

Question from looking at the wider images (and it's probably been addressed before) - do you have a lift out section to access the operating well or are you having to crawl underneath?  My knees don't like hard surfaces so there's no was I could do without a flap.

 

Graeme

 

 

[lambiedg]

Just catching up with last few (dozen) posts!

Yet more wonderful shots, especially the panoramas.

On the subject of facials from last week.

Can I suggest a colour similar to the walls and viaduct as this might help hide their presence by confusing the brain.

 

 

[Physicsman]

Right, you SLAVE DRIVERS!!

 

I'd envisaged staying off here for a week or so, (a) To give you all a break from the stuff I'm posting, and (b) To give me a break from wearing out my camera....do you realise how much it's costing me to continually charge the thing up to take these pics!? Lol.

 

Anyway, seriously, thank you for your comments and question(s). So here goes:

 

David, the idea of a grey wash onto the birch ply will be considered when I've got all the fascias in place. It will make the fascias a more subdued colour AND reduce the degree to which the camera light settings are affected by scatter off the current, bright(ish), surface.

 

Graeme, I DID have a lift-out. It was in the area where the cutting meets the viaduct, adjacent to the door. Unfortunately, my ideas for the scale of the cutting took precedence and the lift-out ended up fixed in place. There's a good gap underneath, but, along with the lack of a fiddle yard, it's one of the two main regrets I have in the way GH has (had to) been built. Compromises....

 

Jay, John, Jonathan - thanks for the comments.

 

So, since I'm on here, I may as well chuck some pics from today's embankment work onto here...

 

 

 

 

Jeff

Edited November 28, 2021 by Physicsman

[MarshLane]

Hi Jeff, 

Really is looking good, your speeding on!  Wish I was making the same progress   I would agree with the previous posters about a dark colour on the fascia, as well as the camera issue, it would stop the viewers eye being drawn to it.  Personally I prefer black fascias, as black is the one colour the eye doesn't notice, and a black surround to images always makes the colours more vibrant and visible.  Just my two penneth tho!

 

Rich

[John Besley]

Can we have a bit of a photo essay on your embankments etc. Please

 

I know film development is not cheap...   

But it's worth it in the long run for he record

Edited November 28, 2021 by John Besley

[Physicsman]

34 minutes ago, John Besley said:

Can we have a bit of a photo essay on your embankments etc. Please

 

I know film development is not cheap...   

But it's worth it in the long run for he record

 

John, what would you like to see and I'll see what I can come up with.

[John Besley]

5 hours ago, Physicsman said:

 

John, what would you like to see and I'll see what I can come up with.

 

The process of building up the grass and linside vegitation - bushes brambles etc.

[Physicsman]

RE-JIGGED with the missing pictures on page 82 of this thread (edited 02/04/22)

 

 

 

Jeff’s outline method for grass and vegetation:

 

This is how I’ve been doing things for a number of years. All the techniques are well established and there’s nothing here that’s original to me! The key thing is NOT to regard this as difficult. Treat it as FUN!! If it goes wrong, try again!

 

The underlying structure of the hills and embankments on Gill Head is, as was also used on Kirkby Luneside, insulation board – stacked and cut to the approximate shape of the required feature. When KL was ripped apart in June 2018, all the landscaping work was lost as nearly all the insulation board was stuck to the baseboards. On Gill Head I’ve built the cuttings and embankments in sections – roughly 60cm long – onto 6mm ply board. The ply board is screwed onto the main baseboard from below (a couple of screws suffice) and, if it’s ever needed, the landscape can be chopped apart and each section saved.

 

Insulation board is covered in mod-roc and a top plaster “skim” (I use ordinary household filler – I tried Plaster of Paris on KL and it set rock hard in less than 5 minutes and was almost impossible to work with) applied. The skim thickness varies, but is typically 1-2cm. To date I’ve used around 100kg dry mass (so around 200kg when wet).

 

When the plaster is set the surface is painted using bog-standard brown emulsion paint. This isn’t strictly necessary, but provides another colour layer if the plaster gets chipped.

 

In the pre-static grass days the next step would have been the top surface: flock. Now, most of the flock covering is virtually invisible under grass, shrubs etc. The flock base is a matter of personal taste. I use a mix of Woodland Scenics “Earth Blend” and “Green Blend”, mixed in a (very) rough proportion of around 4:1. The brown paint surface is covered in undiluted PVA and the flock mix is sprinkled-on using a tea strainer. Most of the flock passes through the strainer. The larger pieces are saved for later (about 5-10%), as they provide a good representation of flowers when sprinkled onto the grassed surface (see later).

 

Pics 1 and 2 show examples of the flock mix in situ, on top of the PVA. Areas that aren’t covered don’t matter and provide a bit of surface variation – where visible! In the summer months, the PVA has set within 2-3 hours. There’s a lot of surplus flock at this point and it saves a lot of money – given the area that’s being covered – if some can be reclaimed. I estimate that I can reclaim about half of what was sprinkled onto the PVA. When dry a small brush is used to go over the flock surface, freeing any loose stuff and this can be hoovered up for re-use.

 

 

 

With the flock-base dry and ready it’s time to start the grassing process. I’m not going to get involved in a discussion of which static-grass applicator to use – that’s your choice. I’ve used Noch applicators and grass fibres since I first started using this technique around 6 years ago, find they give excellent results and I’m not going to change.

 

Pic 3 shows part of an embankment from KL2, prepared for the next stage. I apply neat PVA onto the flock surface (simply brushed on). In places, all the flock is covered – on steeper hillsides I tend to leave some areas of flock untouched. The gaps of flock contrast nicely with the grasses! Just try things – if it looks crap it can be scraped off and re-done!

 

 

The shortest grass fibres are then applied onto the PVA. I use a mixture of Noch 2.5mm meadow, 1.5mm (both greenish) and 2.5mm brown. 2.5mm yellow is also a good additive. The 2.5mm green makes up about 70% of my mix – I can’t say exactly as I empty fibres from the bags, in an approximate way, into a plastic tub, shake to mix it all up and then put the mix into the applicator to be fired onto the PVA. No fixed rules, just play!

 

Pic 4 shows part of an embankment with short fibres applied.

 

 

Summer months: the surface is ready for the next step after a day. At the moment, I leave it for 2 days. If you choose to use HAIRSPRAY you can speed up the layering process….

 

The next application of grass depends on the area being covered:

 

Embankments often have a lot of longer grass, so in this case I then apply 12mm fibres (see below).

 

Plateau areas or areas with a significant herbivore population will tend to have shorter grasses. In those areas it may be that you choose to stick with 2-3mm fibres, or add in 4mm/6mm ones (see below).

 

For my embankments I covered the areas I wanted to add further grass to with a diluted PVA (about 3 PVA: 1 water) and painted the glue onto the base 2.5mm grass. You don’t have to dilute the PVA but I find it helps the glue to flow onto the base surface. A covering of 12mm fibres is then applied (I use a mix of 12mm field grass (green) and 12mm field grass (beige). Hoover up the excess for re-use, then immediately add a mix of 4-6mm fibres (green/beige/brown). Hoover up the excess and immediately add a layer of 2.5mm fibres – these fill in the gaps between the longer fibres and give the grass a real feeling of depth. Hoover off surplus. Allow the PVA to thoroughly set.

 

Sheep-areas etc – diluted PVA/4-6mm fibre coat/2.5mm fibre coat. Allow to dry.

 

Pic 5 shows part of an embankment with longer grass dominating, pic 6 shows multiple stages: paint coat nearest, through 2.5mm coat to longer grass at the far end.

 

 

 

Pics 7-9 show different areas after additional “vegetation” has been applied to the base grass coating.

 

Pic 7 shows 2.5/4/6mm fibres to either side of a dirt path (Woodland Scenics Earth Fine Turf used for the path).

 

 

Pic 8 shows a variety of materials added to the embankment to simulate bramble, blackberry, invasive weed etc. For these, I used WS Coarse Turf: Burnt Grass and Light Green, WS Olive Green Underbrush and sprinklings of the flock I’d saved earlier. WF Fine Leaf foliage was used to make small shrubby creations and the growth along the walls.

 

 

The materials are sprinkled on top of the grass and a finger/pencil/pointy object used to work them in between the fibres. When the surface is ready, extra strong hold hairspray is applied and the turfs are pretty well held in position.

 

Pic 9 shows the same technique applied to an area dominated by shorter grass. The proportion of grass: vegetation depends on location – use your judgement.

 

 

One final comment I’d make is that real-world vegetation is generally full of SUBTLE variations. That’s why I tend to use paler coloured materials – I suppose it depends on the season. However, garish mega-contrasts look (to my eyes) disgusting and not natural at all.

 

Pic 10 shows a late-spring embankment at Kirkby Stephen: pale colours dominate.

 

 

 

I HOPE this is useful. It's by far the longest post I've ever done and I've really enjoyed putting this together. Inevitably I'll have missed something, so please ask. And remember - this is MY METHOD. It works for me, but everyone will find a technique they are happy with.

 

Jeff

Edited April 2, 2022 by Physicsman

[Rowsley17D]

A great step-by-step tutorial, Jeff. A bit like being back in the classroom?

[Dragonboy]

17 hours ago, John Besley said:

Can we have a bit of a photo essay on your embankments etc. Please

 

I know film development is not cheap...   

But it's worth it in the long run for he record

You beat me to it there John.

 

That embankment is a sheer work of art Jeff.

 

Brian

[Mark90]

Hello Jeff,

My first post on this thread, I think, although I've been following and 'liking' posts for a few weeks (and have skim-read all the way from the start). Just thought I'd pop up to say how much I'm enjoying the thread but also how useful your how-to post is. I've done some landscape work but will be adopting some of your ideas for my next layout. 

I look forward to seeing how things develop!
Mark

[peach james]

Thank you Jeff for spending the time to write up how you do the layering of grasses- I know Simon over on HLJ did the same for me, because I asked nicely !  I've struggled with the Woodland Scenic's static grass applicator to  get grass to stand up as well as other people have managed :).

Long Marton is all back together- for how long is a question, the heating engineer is coming by on Friday, and then I will know how much I am going to end up spending...

James

[Physicsman]

Lads, thanks for the feedback on my "article". I think Jonathan has it right - having taught Physics in research, and then for another 28 years, there's an immense satisfaction in being able to share the knowledge gained over a period of time.

 

I really CANNOT understand why anyone keeps advice to themselves - though, fortunately, we railway modellers tend to be a very generous bunch when it comes to helping others! I'll always be grateful for the input I've received over the last 10 years on RMweb.

 

As I said, above, what I've shown is what works for me. I would say, though, that having a really good static grass applicator is the key, and I couldn't recommend the Noch Grassmaster more highly.

 

Jeff

[John Besley]

Thank you Jeff for the 'article' that's just what I was looking for

[Physicsman]

I've continued to add vegetation to the main embankment areas and - not surprisingly - have run out of a couple of the key components. More on order.

 

Here are a few pics, from slightly different angles. The mini-panorama involving the viaduct, not a great pic in itself, clearly shows the effect on colour that different lighting angles can have - bearing in mind the grass surfaces are all very similar.

 

 

 

 

 

[Rowsley17D]

Looks as though the sun has come out on the photo with the signal box. Talking of which I found the box that the York Mm kit came in and it does show a walkway at the back in the photo of the model and there are the bits in the box to make it, but I never did. I didn't finish the box either.

[Physicsman]

9 minutes ago, Rowsley17D said:

Looks as though the sun has come out on the photo with the signal box. Talking of which I found the box that the York Mm kit came in and it does show a walkway at the back in the photo of the model and there are the bits in the box to make it, but I never did. I didn't finish the box either.

 

Yes, if I bought another box I'd omit the rear walkway.

 

The sun was still shining on the station area. Here's a 3 image composite....

 

[SouthernRegionSteam]

Great stuff, Jeff!
Your first photo from today gave me a bad thought; what about a huge slowly spinning clear disc above the layout with translucent clouds painted on... that way you could model the changing light conditions.

OK, whilst that is of course a tongue-in-cheek suggestion, it did remind me of my favourite photo from my Yorkshire holiday over 10 years ago:

 

 

Watching the clouds cast shadows on the fells was a sight to behold!
Hope you don't mind me posting a photo, by the way.