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Gill Head: Kirkby Luneside's neighbour


Physicsman
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Here I was, thinking they were on the gravy train !

 

While fitting the room out might seem boring (he's done it before...), for someone who is new here, it means they get to see a complete layout from start-finish, with the steps needed to make it a comfortable layout.  I'm still young/dumb  enough to not fit insulation on the floor, but comfort is actually...comfortable !

 

I started a bit of a thread on Candian Puget Sound II (the live steam railway), so I'd have somewhere to plant photos/ect.  The big engine followed me into work yesterday, so I have a Darjeeling Class D in 5" sitting on the workbench here.  Annoyances:  I can't find my 1/4"-40 ME taps and die, so that will require more searching tomorrow after night shift.  I've made up a list of bits to buy in for said engine, basically currently covering water into the boiler is going to be a bit more than I'd like to spend, but not as much as I thought it might be either... (we're talking a couple new OO locos worth of parts...)

 

James

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On ‎10‎/‎09‎/‎2020 at 14:03, Physicsman said:

 

Perceptive as ever, Jason.

 

I'm not putting up - or discussing - layout plans at this stage. Far too early, and I'm not going to allow a froth-fest discussion, ad infinitum, of what is right or wrong with the plan.

 

I would like a fiddle yard, but - and I've spent a lot of time thinking about it - it just isn't possible given the gill area and associated cuttings etc. I'm not willing to compromise on the scenic look of GH, and if it means one train running round and round, it's a price I'm willing to pay.

 

But.....

 

There is a (approx 80cm x 40cm) lift-out section, directly in front of the entry door. This section is part of a cutting, but needs to be there. I had planned a duplicate board, track only, to allow loading of stock from cassettes. At least it's something.

 

I'll discuss matters in detail with you, if you're interested, when the geometry - and a plan - appears in here.

 

I may be corrupting you back to the railways........

 

Convert a Black 5 to EM for me, if you like....

 

Jeff

 

 

 

On ‎10‎/‎09‎/‎2020 at 14:18, Jason T said:

I do kind of get it now. What you are creating is more of a 3d piece of art and having trains moving through it just adds to the overall creation rather than being the main purpose of the piece and as such, having a load of track on bare baseboards full of sidings that you have to then fill with stock becomes a pain in the plopper. 

 

If I am right in this, then you are totally right in your decision (whatever that may be). Don't let mine or anyone else's requirements for what they want from a layout steer your direction, as it may not be what you want from it.

 

Did I really say that? Wow - I must be mellowing in my old age :D

Jason / Jeff

Totally get where you are coming from with this, and it is exactly what we are hoping to do with Horton. However as it is N Gauge I have the luxury of a fiddle yard with 10 roads, which allows 10 individual trains each way as they are subdivided. I look forward to seeing your interpretation of the typical S&C scenery.

 

Mac

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Cheers Mac.

 

Kirkby Luneside had a fair size fiddle yard hidden behind the Fell, with plenty of storage space. This isn't possible this time, and since the landscape - and building it - is a lot more important to me than running locos/trains, compromises have had to be made.

 

To be honest, I'd build the new layout just to have the chance to construct a new viaduct! I even considered an end to end, including a fiddle yard, with me sitting behind the viaduct watching the trains pass over.

 

Viaducts, grass, stone walling, a small gill, a few sheep....that's what it's all about to me. Oh, and the occasional passing train!

 

All the best for the Horton project.

 

Jeff

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Jeff I think you have just hit on something that is actually very rarely said and seldom modelled, that of its actually about the setting and not the trains.

To be able to get into a position where you can sit looking at the landscape and it be just like real life, with perhaps a few trains passing with a suitably long period of time between trains is something that is rarely modelled.

 

I'd love to be able to model Moy Viaduct on the Highland main line, and have it at such a height that from a sitting position I would be as a similar height as I would be if I was stood in front of the real thing. Then a couple of trains pass over (With a suitably long period in between them) would be amazing.

 

Not sure how I would deal with the practicalities of it mind, maybe the landscape would have to come way out, with a head sized hole cut into it. You sit down on a buffet (That's yorkie for a stool) with the legs cut down, with your head stuck up through the hole....

Given my aversion to DCC, I can see that complete computer control of the operating side would be essential for the trains to appear in the view while sat in the hole.....

 

Andy G

 

 

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Evening Andy.

 

I was looking through a box of "odds and sods" the other day and came across a copy of the 1981 Hornby Track Plans book (5th edition, I think). I used to drool over the track plans (note I didn't say "layout") and wish I could cover a 12' x 10' baseboard in track.

 

I also remember looking at copies of Railway Modeller in the early 80s and being dismayed at some of the layouts that seemed to contain a little bit of track, a few buildings and the rest was scenic.

 

Nowadays, as you know, it's ALL about the landscape for me. If I had another 10 feet to play with then I'd probably have chucked in some fells as background and would hardly change my existing trackwork. As it is, the down train (Carlisle bound) leaves the station, passes through a long cutting, over the viaduct, into another cutting and finally back to the goods end of the station. I'd almost be willing to sacrifice the station for a fiddle yard, but the scenic sections are paramount.

 

I'm looking forward to building it.

 

Jeff

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18 hours ago, peach james said:

Here I was, thinking they were on the gravy train !

 

While fitting the room out might seem boring (he's done it before...), for someone who is new here, it means they get to see a complete layout from start-finish, with the steps needed to make it a comfortable layout.  I'm still young/dumb  enough to not fit insulation on the floor, but comfort is actually...comfortable !

 

I started a bit of a thread on Candian Puget Sound II (the live steam railway), so I'd have somewhere to plant photos/ect.  The big engine followed me into work yesterday, so I have a Darjeeling Class D in 5" sitting on the workbench here.  Annoyances:  I can't find my 1/4"-40 ME taps and die, so that will require more searching tomorrow after night shift.  I've made up a list of bits to buy in for said engine, basically currently covering water into the boiler is going to be a bit more than I'd like to spend, but not as much as I thought it might be either... (we're talking a couple new OO locos worth of parts...)

 

James

 

Hi James.

 

I did reply earlier, but managed to delete my text before saving it!

 

The floor base/insulation thing has definite thermal benefits, but I think there's a bit of psychology in walking into a train room with insulation beneath your feet. "Comfy" and welcoming!

 

Good to see you are busy with your concrete bridges and live steam. Keep enjoying yourself!

 

Jeff

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I totally get where you are coming from Jeff, my own modelling has now morphed into creating a believable scene with a bit of railway in it, but I'm now concentrating on small diorama type sections, which I can complete individually, but can be joined to extend out to a decent run if necessary.

 

Al.

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I know where you're coming from, Jeff, says he whose off-scene section is far larger than the scenic section. I want my layout to say (shout out) Midland Railway with no trains in view, even though set in LMS times and although I says it as shouldn't, I think I am achieving it.

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Jeff,

 

Its good to see you back in the harness, so to speak.  Since discovering the KL2 blog, I really appreciated the level of attention to all the details including the boarding out of the garage and strength of the baseboards.  As for the walling, well what could I say.

I look forward to the future.

DeadRinger

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After about 30 hours of work in the garage since Monday, things are starting to take shape.

 

About 70% of the floor area has been framed/insulated/ply topped. And a number of wall frames are ready to receive their quota of 75mm insulation board and a 6mm ply fascia.

 

For those who like details, the framing wood is standard CLS timber, 38 x 89mm. The floor ply is 18mm thick.

 

Here are 3 pics, taken today. The last one includes the infamous fridge, star of an earlier post!!

 

Jeff

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There are only so many photos of bits of wood and insulation board that bear looking at, but here are a couple more. One from yesterday, one from today. Both show progress (I would hope so after all the time that's going into the process!!), but also the chaos - with fridges, a bed, old bookcases, stashes of insulation board etc. all over the place.

 

It's a lot further on than a week ago....

 

Jeff

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Hi Jeff,

 

I have hardly been on RMWeb for several weeks due to some painful affliction affecting my left leg which is driving me bleeding mad, I don't even feel up to operating or working on Dent due to the level of discomfort. Anyway my mates came round and one told me about your resurrection with Gill Head so naturally I just had to have a look having followed KL and KL2 with much interest (and dismay BooHoo :cry:)

I am delighted to see you have some quality plan under your belt and I know it will be a fabulous journey for us followers and I will be dropping in to see your progress especially after the building work is complete as I see enough of that in my day job HaHa.

All the best Jeff, keep safe mate.

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22 hours ago, Physicsman said:

There are only so many photos of bits of wood and insulation board that bear looking at, but here are a couple more. One from yesterday, one from today. Both show progress (I would hope so after all the time that's going into the process!!), but also the chaos - with fridges, a bed, old bookcases, stashes of insulation board etc. all over the place.

 

It's a lot further on than a week ago....

 

Jeff

 

Oh dear, its not got to that stage already has it Jeff .. your not sleeping in there to get more work done?? :beee:

 

Looking good, and pleased to see you are making progress.  Your actually giving me food for thought as I have the same task to do next year with the new garage, once its built early next summer, so the photos are really useful, thanks.  Is this following the same principals for fitting out the walls and floors that you used (presumably with success) last time?

 

Rich

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1 hour ago, 67A said:

Hi Jeff,

 

I have hardly been on RMWeb for several weeks due to some painful affliction affecting my left leg which is driving me bleeding mad, I don't even feel up to operating or working on Dent due to the level of discomfort. Anyway my mates came round and one told me about your resurrection with Gill Head so naturally I just had to have a look having followed KL and KL2 with much interest (and dismay BooHoo :cry:)

I am delighted to see you have some quality plan under your belt and I know it will be a fabulous journey for us followers and I will be dropping in to see your progress especially after the building work is complete as I see enough of that in my day job HaHa.

All the best Jeff, keep safe mate.

 

Thanks Mike.

 

PM sent.

 

Jeff

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On ‎22‎/‎09‎/‎2020 at 22:20, MarshLane said:

 

Oh dear, its not got to that stage already has it Jeff .. your not sleeping in there to get more work done?? :beee:

 

Looking good, and pleased to see you are making progress.  Your actually giving me food for thought as I have the same task to do next year with the new garage, once its built early next summer, so the photos are really useful, thanks.  Is this following the same principals for fitting out the walls and floors that you used (presumably with success) last time?

 

Rich

 

Evening Rich.

 

The principle of construction is the same but this conversion, in some ways, is easier than the previous two.

 

The garage is prefabricated, so it isn't possible to fix the wall frames directly into the garage walls. I've built the floor first, so the bases of the wall frames are screwed into the floor joists. The wall frames (each typically 120cm) are screwed to each other and will be cross-joisted when I fit the vaulted ceiling in. That bit will start in the next couple of days.

 

The whole structure is already pretty rigid, and will be more so when the ceiling is in. 

 

The walls will also get some additional support when the L-girder beams that hold the baseboards in place are set in place.

 

Hope some of that is useful!

 

Jeff

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Update on the last couple of day's work.

 

More insulation has been fitted into the floor and walls, and the ply covering on the floor is 90% complete.

 

A centre beam has been mounted in the ceiling and a number of cross-joists fitted. These are shown in the attached pics.

 

I should be able to get half of the walls fitted with 6mm ply in the next 2-3 days.

 

11 days into the garage conversion, so well on track.

 

....And speaking of track, I ordered 40 yards of EM track from Marcway today. Along with the turnouts, stored from KL2, I should be able to make a prompt start with tracklaying once the baseboards are in.

 

BUT there's a viaduct to build, so we'll just see how it goes!

 

Ps. Apologies that the pics are a bit blurry. Quite dark in the garage and my phone is operating at 1/25 s exposure.

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Are those angles in the roof trusses actually upto supporting the massive increase in weight you are no subjecting them to Jeff? They look quite skinney to me, and I know what sort of bombproof structure you usually build! I think I would consider beefing them up somehow....

 

Andy G

 

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4 hours ago, uax6 said:

Are those angles in the roof trusses actually upto supporting the massive increase in weight you are no subjecting them to Jeff? They look quite skinney to me, and I know what sort of bombproof structure you usually build! I think I would consider beefing them up somehow....

 

Andy G

 

 

Hi Andy.

 

I'm pretty sure the steel angle beam will support the wooden joists and beam. However, I've already planned an additional support measure - for a different reason....

 

It wasn't until I fixed the longer beam section in place on Tuesday that I started to wonder about possible beam sag over time. So I've built a 10' "L-girder" that will cross the room in the middle of the beam, and this will also support the steel structures.

 

So, an end result for different reasons. The L-girder will go in last, as at the moment I can hardly move in the garage!

 

Jeff

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19 hours ago, Physicsman said:

Update on the last couple of day's work.

 

snip

 

Ps. Apologies that the pics are a bit blurry. Quite dark in the garage and my phone is operating at 1/25 s exposure.

 

 


All this from a man who takes photos of the moon at night !  :)

 

---------------

 

 

 

The roof insulation structure- when you have gotten the other side rafters into place, then I would expect there to be relatively little loading going from the wood to the metal structure of the building.  Unless the code requirements are really really different between the UK and here (and, IIRC, Jeff is somewhere north of Barrow...), then the roof structure is designed around a loading of 150 kg/m^3 or so.  (snow loading).  That ironmongery should be strong enough.  The way I would view this is that the internal wood framing amounts to a shed hidden within the other shed- that the wood framework will be self supporting of its own weight, and the metal/GRP will support the external loads.  You'd be shocked (!) at what you can get away with on 50x100mm timbers...(2x4 for some of us...)


James

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Hi James.

 

I tend to agree with you about the "shed within a shed". The roof joists will certainly take a large proportion of the beam/insulation load, though a steeper roof angle would have helped.

 

I have the cross L girder ready for fitting at some stage in the next week or so.

 

Jeff

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A lot of work has been carried out since Friday's update, but since it consists of completing the ply floor, building more wall frames, fitting more insulation and adding another 4 roof trusses, it's hardly photogenic.

 

But I've chucked in a couple more pics, nevertheless.

 

A couple of L-girders will be fitted this week, as well as more of the above. I'll also start to fit the 6mm ply to the walls and ceiling. Cross-bracers will eventually be fitted between roof trusses on opposite sides of the centre beam, but that's a week away, at least.

 

Jeff

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8 hours ago, Rowsley17D said:

A serious looking bit of kit in the last photo, Jeff. I bet it speeds up the build process no end.

 

Evening Jonathan.

 

I bought the mitre saw in early 2015, and it features in KL2 from about page 5. It has saved me many hours of cutting time, and a lot of sweat. Also gives far more accurate cuts at a range of angles. It has paid for itself ten times over.

 

More work today, maybe some pics tomorrow. They will, of course, look like the last lot. More pieces of wood, ply and insulation bunged together!!

 

However, let me say that I'm in my element with all this lot. I just love it. At some stage I'll end up with the boring bit of running trains!!

 

Jeff

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Hi Young Jeff, Firstly sorry for all the likes etc.

 

I hadn't realised you had actually made a start, it's all looking rather good and should be warm and cosy when done.

 

The Viaduct should be a masterpiece, here is one I inherited of the Monsal Viaduct in Derbyshire, but could not use so is now in the Markeaton Park Model Museum in Derby.

143994652_Viaduct002.JPG.ff067af62b457bcbf3e58db53dd5deec.JPG

 

866294139_TheViaduct009.JPG.c2393d876bdd5e9db7d299d2bba456b3.JPG

 

I was determined not to comment on your plans as your going in a different direction to my way of thinking, but all I would say is that changing stock over, especially Steam Locos with delicate valve gear and fine pipework can cause damage, and the last time I saw you, you had some exquisite models.

 

All the best, and I'm now following with interest.:good:

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