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Fishtail Platform?


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Having built a shelf layout in a restricted space I was very much aware that one track was going to be just to short to accommodate a four carriage EMU.

I'm pretty pleased with the layout, but I just wanted other people's take on the way it looks, is that gap too unrealistic? 

The way I see it I have three options:

 

1) I could leave it as is, and the passengers would have to "alight only from the first three coaches."

- I like this idea but I'm not sure if it's believable.

 

2) I could model a curve to the whole platform and alter the course of the uppermost line to follow this curve.

- a lot of remodeling...

 

3) This is the weird one - I could leave the platform straight on the one side, widen the ramp and sculpt a curve into the other... 

- has anybody seen this done or any real world examples like it?  

 

I'm at a crossroads in the build and could use some advice!

Many thanks.

 

IMG_20200908_185723529.jpg

IMG_20200908_185951756.jpg

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2 minutes ago, Ray Von said:

....

1) I could leave it as is, and the passengers would have to "alight only from the first three coaches."

- I like this idea but I'm not sure if it's believable.

...


Depends on your time period. In the last century it was not uncommon for trains to be far too long to be accommodated at some of their calling stations. To take the final years of King’s Lynn—Liverpool Street InterCity services, trains at the KL terminus would normally be 9 Mk2 coaches* at a platform that could accommodate 7 plus the locomotive, or, when that had run-round for the departure, 8 coaches — the loco and the leading coach dangling off the end of the platform. 
 

When the train set off, the first call was at Magdalen Rd (sometimes scheduled, sometimes only at passenger’s request to guard, depending on the year/ timetable), where from memory the entire platform was only one or two coaches long. Lots of train dangling off the ends...

Paul

 

* 8xMk2 + 1xMk1 RMB, to be pedantic. 

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The Southern faced the same problem (with several platforms) at Holborn Viaduct and, with several suitable alternative platforms available just accepted that the short platforms were only usable for parcels traffic. In fact, IIRC, out of six platforms only three ever saw electric passenger trains.

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Ray,

 

I have seen recently photos of platforms that curve in odd ways - I don't see any reason why yours shouldn't (Rule 1 and all that). However, as you sure there is sufficient length without encumbering the other road? And another thing, your platform, if you do extend it into the curve will have a rather large 'mind the gap' situation.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

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Mention of short platforms by Fenman reminded me that until the full-fat HSTs were shortened recently, the daily London - Hereford (and vicky-verka) service would need to have two coaches and one motor unit dangling on arrival at Ledbury (I used to catch it occasionally). The train manager would make the announcement on leaving Colwall that any passengers wishing to alight at Ledbury had to move further along the train. (HSTs were permitted to stop at Ledbury in this manner under grandfather rights).

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

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You could move the double slip further out and remove the reverse curve by replacing the LH point in the crossover Just below the photo with a RH one.

 

Otherwise shorten this platform and use it for local traffic, parcels etc. Curved platforms are likely to cause clearance problems with sharp curves and best avoided.

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Hello,  what about a staggered / uneven ending to the platform?   Cut back the platform side so that it is shorter than the other with a ramp Half the platform width stating by the point.    There are quite a few places where the platforms don’t end neatly in the same place to take as inspiration  (Ipswich platform 3 and 4 at the Norwich end as an example)

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Straight platforms always look a bit sterile and post 2000.  Have you thought about bringing the road with the 08 closer and curving the platform

Screenshot (455).png

Edited by DavidCBroad
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Had a bit of a play around with the platform (Luckily not yet glued) - I could shorten it so it's long enough to accommodate the EMU on "platform one" and aesthetically it looks better, although the problem remains on platform two....

IMG_20200909_065034284.jpg

Edited by Ray Von
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2 minutes ago, DavidCBroad said:

Straight platforms always look a bit sterile and post 2000.  Have you thought about bringing the road with the 08 closer and curving the platform

Thanks, that was one of my initial ideas- 

 

"2) I could model a curve to the whole platform and alter the course of the uppermost line to follow this curve."

 

I'm not sure if I like the way it would look personally, I appreciate that there are real locations that follow the pattern, but it would always bug me for looking a bit of an ugly duckling I think.  

 

 

(Here's the shot again, save scrolling back up.)

 

IMG_20200908_185723529.jpg

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Must admit I don't like it at all, just looks so wrong.

 

Yes, I know short platforms existed and passengers usually had to use 1 end of the train. But this looks like the end of a suburban terminus, so most unlikely.

David Broad's idea looks to be the most suitable, unless you make platforms 1 & 3 only for such trains. A 3 car Tadpole DEMU only for Platform 2, serving a branch service?

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All sorts of arrangements existed and indeed still do, but the simplest way to solve your problem, and still conform to easily-acceptable real practice would be to stick a fence along the back of Platform 1, up to the point where the track at Platform 2 is straight.

 

Second easiest, and the one I would go for because it looks more plausible, would be this, probably, but not necessarily, with a fence along the relevant part:


E9760B0C-8E3B-4E87-B6A8-334CCB07E6E8.jpeg.c1f2696d52e276c6b41d2e45918e1221.jpeg

 

Clearly, that would leave Platform 2 short, but 'hey ho', restrict it to short trains, probably vans, especially since any moves in and out of it are likely to be foul of  a  full-length train at Platform 3 anyway, so if it is used a lot it will cause knock-on restrictions to the length of trains that can sit in Platform 3.
 

Your signal positions need to take account of all this - is the started for Platform 3 Going to be clear of the slip for instance, and is there an imaginary track-circuit that locks things up when a full length train is at Platform 3.

 

Im imagining Platform 2 to be blasted nuisance operationally, and used by as few moves as possible!

Edited by Nearholmer
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Thanks Nearholmer,

Just for full disclosure, this is the layout as it stands (the line into platform one isn't fixed yet as you can see!) There are three sidings opposite the station - topmost is fairly short (shunter and a couple of wagons) then to the right there are two more lines which are long enough to accommodate four car EMU's / four coaches. 

The line at the far right is the "in and out." 

I don't know if this would have any bearing on the platform configuration?

IMG_20200906_154928110.jpg

Edited by Ray Von
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37 minutes ago, Ray Von said:

Thanks Nearholmer,

Just for full disclosure, this is the layout as it stands (the line into platform one isn't fixed yet as you can see!) There are three sidings opposite the station - topmost is fairly short (shunter and a couple of wagons) then to the right there are two more lines which are long enough to accommodate four car EMU's / four coaches. 

The line at the far right is the "in and out." 

I don't know if this would have any bearing on the platform configuration?

 

 

Looks like you needed a second double slip to bring the point into your short platform further out.

 

Me, I would go for the fishtail platform as there are examples and I like to be different. Alternatively, if the track is not yet fixed, how about having the left hand platform at an angle? Again, examples of such as arrangement exist, St.Denys that I linked above being one. 


Roy

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I was about to make the same suggestion that I now see Il Grifone made above.  If it helps, the turnout in question is highlighted below:

 

1608318349_IMG_20200906_154928110.jpg.c699ef21dfb22e892531e4fc98a2f966copy.png.bcafea835766b2b9d07cfdcdbe35c867.png

 

Replace that with a RH turnout and you can ditch the curve that follows it, connecting it straight on to the double slip which will then be 8 inches or so further from the station buffer stops.  That gives you a greater length of straight track for platform 2, and (again, as Il Grifone noted) eliminate one of the reverse curves from the RH fiddle road into platform 2.

 

EDIT: This is what I think it would look like in AnyRail (assuming medium radius points):

 

1343716348_Screenshot2020-09-09at16_31_41.png.50eb5e659d1eb6e9f20483ec5d5ef051.png

 

Note that the platform 3 road also ends up with more distance between the double slip and the bufferstop this way.

 

Edited by ejstubbs
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Wow, thank you for doing that!  I'm afraid that there is an issue re: the sidings.

The section of track where you suggest relocating the double slip - just under "as against" - is in fact an isolated section (I'm using DC) - this is to enable EMU or diesel led locos to back into this siding and come to a stop while the rest of the layout is in use.

Essentially, the layout is just big enough to accommodate a four carriage EMU on either side of the double slip, so it's pretty much fixed where it is.

I think the only options I have are centred around structurally altering the platform at positions one and two.

That or resorting to three car EMU's....

Thank you again for going to that effort though, this is what keeps the hobby interesting!!!

Edited by Ray Von
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52 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said:

Again, examples of such as arrangement exist, St.Denys that I linked above being one. 

Cheers, I really appreciate that - couldn't find a clear image of it on Google though unfortunately... :(

Edited by Ray Von
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