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Ian Allan Model Shop at Waterloo to close


andyman7
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Interesting that your post neatly sums up what I was saying before.

The present IA have from what I can see no interest in the Railway/Maritime/Book/Model part of their business that started it all and have let it wither away.

In recent years it has become a small, possibly insignificant, part of the group's overall sales and was presumably only surviving as long as it didn't become a direct cost to the business.

Overall publishing was from 2017s sales figures just 2.7% of the overall sales and that includes all their Masonic stuff, which IMHO is probably the bulk of the publishing income.

They have offloaded their book & magazine businesses and closed the shops, one by one.

 

There should have been an opportunity to find alternative premises if they really wanted to, in lower cost shopping areas.

They could have expanded the website to sell the other things their shops stocked but it didn't happen.

The online business died the day the Birmingham shop closed as that is where it was being operated from.

Why didn't they transfer it to Waterloo? Maybe because they weren't bothered?

 

25 minutes ago, Not Jeremy said:

The irrefutable fact is that loss of sales is not good for business and the trade. Perhaps a good subject for discussion here is the extent to which the closure of the Ian Allan shops in the last few years has either benefited or damaged the railway book trade in the UK?

 

 

It has certainly changed my spending habits.

I went to the Birmingham shop every week for many, many years (including when it was the "crypt" as it was known)

I made many impulse purchases of both books & models, probably many £thousands, which I haven't regretted. (the majority of my 00 locos came from there, either their normal price or discounted)

 

Since the closure my purchasing is much more measured as I buy less magazines, so see less product, so buy less.

I always used to browse the mags and buy if there was something of interest. Same with the books.

 

Most can be got at Smiths but their Brum shop is now awful and I rarely go there.

That's somewhere else I used to browse and impulse buy, but no more since it shrunk to mainly a newspaper sweets and stationary shop.

 

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9 hours ago, melmerby said:

Especially as e.g. The Welsh govt. has said they want a 33% permanent at home workforce.

That would really devastate town centres and those that work in service industries there.

 

They wouldn't be interested unless the books were also available in Welsh.  Perhaps the 33% home workforce will all be busy translating books.

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Not wishing to sound morbid but reading here - it is certainly sad to see the IA name move away from railways (progress eh?) -  As a kid I always used to be looking in my dads old 1981 Combined Volume.

 

I have been in their and made purchases many a time when travelling via Waterloo (although never tried the Jerk Chicken on sale nearby!), however with Covid I travel very little, but if I could pull it in "one last time"  (still won't be having any Jerk Chicken afterwards!) and possibly add a couple of bargain bits and bobs to the railway........(Does anyone know if/when their will be a closing down sale?)  

 

Best Wishes,

 

C.

 

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On 13/09/2020 at 17:44, Not Jeremy said:

Perhaps a good subject for discussion here is the extent to which the closure of the Ian Allan shops in the last few years has either benefited or damaged the railway book trade in the UK?

 

That would be interesting to hear about.

 

I know that my own book purchasing has plummeted in recent years, partly because the shops that stocked really interesting (to me anyway) material have closed one-by-one, partly because I'm far less often in the places where those shops once were, partly because I decided "enough is enough" in terms of space consumed by books at home, partly because I like to see a book before parting with money.

 

But, what I can't get my head round is whether the railway book trade overall is actually contracting, expanding or static. New titles seem to flow, but what are the print runs? Postal and (until COVID) exhibition/event sales have presumably taken over from "high street" (always back street, nook or cranny in truth) sales, but are the quantities being sold comparable?

 

Does anyone know?

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23 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

 

That would be interesting to hear about.

 

I know that my own book purchasing has plummeted in recent years, partly because the shops that stocked really interesting (to me anyway) material have closed one-by-one, partly because I'm far less often in the places where those shops once were, partly because I decided "enough is enough" in terms of space consumed by books at home, partly because I like to see a book before parting with money.

 

But, what I can't get my head round is whether the railway book trade overall is actually contracting, expanding or static. New titles seem to flow, but what are the print runs? Postal and (until COVID) exhibition/event sales have presumably taken over from "high street" (always back street, nook or cranny in truth) sales, but are the quantities being sold comparable?

 

Does anyone know?

 

To be honest I would imagine its like everything in model railways - becoming far more specialised with people only buying what is really of interest to themselves.  Plus don't forget many people now use the internet for research etc..  

 

I think much of IA's problem was flooding the market with lots of books (perhaps quantity over quality?) and then many titles being "dumped" at very low prices.  The likes of Twelveheads seem to be doing alright.

 

Personally I do like a good book, and am not into the likes of kindles etc..  But how we conduct much of our research and behavior has changed.  Years ago people would buy a book thinking that will come in useful if I ever do Y.  But nowadays much of the information regarding Y can be found on the internet at the touch of a button.  A good book ultimately needs a good author and someone who can provide a wow factor to make you want to never put it down and ultimately compete against other mediums.  Railfreight in Devon and Cornwall is perhaps the best book I have ever read, expensive on face value but excellent value when you look at the quality - the photos, the information, the research etc.. A true masterpiece. 

 

Ultimately, there are lots of books out there on lots of subjects, but how many are great books?

 

Best Wishes,

 

C.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Speaking as a one-time - actually two times (1963-68 and 1977-92) Ian Allan employee (as a magazine editor) IA's sons were not that much younger than me, so they'll both be reaching retirement age about now (if they haven't already). There may well be a third generation with no interest in running the business which was already past its heyday when I left nearly 30 years ago. Railway publishing - as far as books go - is dead on its feet. There simply are not enough customers left of the generation that read railway books or studied railway history and practice. In my time 3,000 copies was a good print run (my Western Before Beeching printed 3,500 copies. Any more and they would have had to pay me a royalty, so they never printed any more). Before that, GWR Country Stations was kept in print for around 20 years and must have sold many thousands of copies. (I got a flat fee for that). Today you would struggle to muster a 1,000 print run and for books printed in the UK that just isn't viable for a company, rather than a one-man operation. (CJL)

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Here are the directors of Ian Allan Group (and most of the other companies in the group):

Note the ages

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/00739567/officers

The two sons & a daughter (or a wife?) left earlier this year IA himself left in 2010, I assume the two newly appointed Allans (June this year) are grandsons.

 

Ian Allan Ltd, which was dormant, was dissolved 29th Sept 2020, as was Ian Allan Printing and Ian Allan 2017 (formerly OPC before it was sold on).

Seems like a clear out going on.

Ian Allan publishing is still active.

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When the Birmingham shop closed a lot of the UK railway books went to Book Law.  Talking to Kath at Book Law they didn't take the Continental/overseas stock.

 

That apparently went on to Waterloo.

 

Has anyone any idea what will happen to it once Waterloo closes?  I can't imagine it going to Book Law even if the remainder of the UK outline stuff goes in that direction.

 

Les

 

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15 minutes ago, Les1952 said:

When the Birmingham shop closed a lot of the UK railway books went to Book Law. 

 

Les

 

IIRC quite a lot disappeared before the final few weeks "fire sale"

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People are saying railway publishing is dead but an awful lot of railway books are still being published. Pen and Sword (a well established concern that pay author royalties) seem to have recently entered the railway market. 

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9 hours ago, fezza said:

People are saying railway publishing is dead but an awful lot of railway books are still being published. Pen and Sword (a well established concern that pay author royalties) seem to have recently entered the railway market. 

The traditional long-run of printing several thousand copies of a book which is then distributed around a retail network in the hopes of selling has significantly changed.  The new way is self-publication or using one of numerous very small businesses which will publish for you and are geared to producing a small number of copies or even print-on-demand and sales via the internet often as not.  

 

What we are losing is the option to browse through books at a bookshop before purchasing.  All too often we are now obliged to make our decision on whether to purchase based upon a brief outline of content and a couple of thumbnail illustrations in an advertisement.  I have been caught out once or twice finding the same images published in different formats under different titles by different publishers.  Basically I paid twice for the same book but this was not apparent from the (no doubt carefully-crafted) adverts.  

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Thanks for drawing this to my attention Tim.

As background, I am Publication Co-ordinator for the HMRS and production editor for the WRRC.

The HMRS reckons to publish a book a year. The print run is normally 500. In the past we had some bigger print runs but they are the ones effectively remaindered on the website. Some of our recent titles have sold out (notably Doug Hewson's book on  5 inch gauge wagons, which is shortly being reprinted by another party). All have sold at least 300 in  the first 18 months, but after that sales drop. Quite a bit of the stock goes to a few specialist bookshops such as Bill Hudson, who are very supportive. Some stock is normally shifted at exhibitions both by bthe booksellers and on our stands, though whether that business will return is not certain for several reasons.

The WRRC is slightly different as although it has several titles on the stocks it has only published one in the past few years. There was considerable nervousness about sales because the Ian Allan shop in Cardiff which had been an important outlet for the Circle's previous books had closed. The print run of that book is less than the HMRS norm, but it is selling slowly.

A few years ago, if you wanted to print a specialist book, companies such as Short Run Press would do runs of 1000. Now the market has changed so much that many printers are geared to much smaller runs. At Amadeus Press which the HMRS uses 500 seems pretty common.

Going back some years, when I worked in London I used to go around all the railway bookshops and model shops which sold books (including Ian Allan) promoting the WRRC titles, and they usually sold well. But when Ian Allan Waterloo goes I am not sure any of them will be left.

Yes, there are several commercial publishers still in the market. A lot of the output is colour albums for which there seems to be a market. However, I am afraid that a few of those publishers seem to do little or no proof reading, presumably because they can't afford to pay for it. If I charged for the hours I put into a typical HMRS book it would not be viable, but I enjoy doing it. The HMRS does pay royalties, though no HMRS author will make his/her fortune. But the books also depend on expert authors who have done years of meticulous research, very different from the "here is my photo collection" approach.  That said some of the commercial publishers produce excellent books.

Kindle has been mentioned, along with self publishing. They don't work for specialist books which have scale drawings etc. Only the printed medium is suitable.

I have recently helped a friend to produce his autobiography. He printed 200 copies locally and has sold most of them to contacts (he is a good salesman and has many friends!). He has now put the book on Amazon print on demand. The quality is considerably poorer, and the cost of colour for the few dozen photos was too much so they are in black and white in the Amazon version. But for books of straight text that is certainly a viable option.

So in summary my view is that there  are currently two markets: the photo album commercially produced but with costs cut to the bone, and specialist books from societies such as the HMRS, WRRC, LNWR Society, Cumbrian Railways Association (some splendid titles), RCHS (likewise) etc. Presumably the purchasers of the books about the 21st century railway are younger than me so will be around for a while, but I am not sure whether there will be a new generation either to write or to buy the very specialist titles the societies produce.

BTW The Welsh Book Council also supports publishing in English though the WRRC has not yet approached them.

Jonathan

PS The HMRS has recently published the fourth in the Southern Style series giving great detail of the liveries of the Southern Railway. Next year's book is intended to be the final volume by Ian White of LB&SCR carriages. The recent WRRC volume is of Barry Railway drawings.

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Oh for Heavens sake, what about - Lightmoor Press, Crecy, Pen and Sword, Oakwood nee Stenlake, Transport Treasury, Platform Five, Mainline and Maritime, Peter Harding, Capital, Bellcode, Book Law, Irwell, Twelveheads, Middleton Press, Silver Link nee Mortons, RCL, Gomer, Crowood, others I have forgotten, some I would rather forget, and even sometimes Wild Swan.

 

There's still a whole lot more to it than either of the above analyses suggest, interesting and relevant as they both are.

 

The fat lady hasn't sung on the railway book market yet, I believe some people even make money from it(!)

 

And where is the idea coming from that Royalties are not being paid to authors?

 

Is that maybe part of the Internet/Kindle/Amazon/print on demand bolleaux?

 

I am Not Jeremy, especially this morning!

 

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16 hours ago, Gwiwer said:

What we are losing is the option to browse through books at a bookshop before purchasing.  All too often we are now obliged to make our decision on whether to purchase based upon a brief outline of content and a couple of thumbnail illustrations in an advertisement. 

That is the issue. There is no shortage of railway books available and I for one have bought far too many in recent years, ranging from HMRS' MGR book to a number of 'photo albums' referred to above and most enjoyably the autobiographical books of ex-railway personnel, plus technical modelling books.

 

If the book market is struggling perhaps magazines could serialise or publish extracts of some good books? Rail Express seem to do this with one author.

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Sorry, I wasn't trying to suggest that the book market is dying, but rather that it is changing. This is partly because colour printing has become much cheaper in real terms, and many of the more recent books take advantage of this. But also because much of the cost has shifted from the printer to the publisher to the author, or just disappeared. When I started in magazine printing in 1973 we were still using letterpress. Colour was very expensive, both the cost of blocks for the photos and because fewer printers were set up for it. It now costs nothing to create the file for a colour image if you have the technology (a computer and a scanner, basically). In those days printers provided proofs which were read by the publisher and the author, necessary because the material had all been retyped by the compositor (an extinct species I imagine). We employed two full time proof readers, also probably extinct. Now the author provides his/her script in electronic form and there may be a need for checking accuracy, but no need for that laborious proof reading. Indeed, it is perfectly easy for an individual to provide a printer with files ready to print using low cost publishing software.

At the same time printing equipment has developed so that "make-ready" time is not so significant, a major reason why shorter print runs are now viable. And most printers are geared up to handle colour as standard.

And in real terms many books are cheaper than 40 years ago.

But even so there is not a lot of money in commercial book publishing. Taking a recent example I was involved with. 240 pages in colour, softback. Printing cost around £5300, print run 500. So unit cost £10.60. Add publicity costs, royalties and the book seller's discount. To sell at a reasonable price you do not have much in hand for staff costs. In fact I am surprised that there are still so many railway books published. Admittedly you could probably get the book printed a bit cheaper in the Far East.

So hats off to those publishers mentioned above who manage to produce so many titles, many of them excellent even if of no interest to me.

But what I don't know is the effect the current (and possible future) lack of exhibitions is having on the specialist booksellers, some of them who get a considerable part of their trade from them. That and the demise of specialist bookshops is changing the way the market is working. I really don't know what the effect will be. I usually want to see a book before I buy it. But will that be possible?

Jonathan

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I was in the area today so called in to find the shop almost empty of stock but still a few people browsing. There is very little of railway interest left; just a few books and a handful of models. 

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On 21/10/2020 at 08:10, Not Jeremy said:

Oh for Heavens sake, what about - Lightmoor Press, Crecy, Pen and Sword, Oakwood nee Stenlake, Transport Treasury, Platform Five, Mainline and Maritime, Peter Harding, Capital, Bellcode, Book Law, Irwell, Twelveheads, Middleton Press, Silver Link nee Mortons, RCL, Gomer, Crowood, others I have forgotten, some I would rather forget, and even sometimes Wild Swan.

 

There's still a whole lot more to it than either of the above analyses suggest, interesting and relevant as they both are.

 

The fat lady hasn't sung on the railway book market yet, I believe some people even make money from it(!)

 

And where is the idea coming from that Royalties are not being paid to authors?

 

Is that maybe part of the Internet/Kindle/Amazon/print on demand bolleaux?

 

I am Not Jeremy, especially this morning!

 

If royalties are being paid to authors, then things certainly have changed - and for the better! I wrote or compiled books for Ian Allan between 1979 and 1992. I think, if I count carefully, about 11 titles. I had one Royalty Contract in that time. The royalty kicked in at 3,500 copies sold. The print run was 3,000 and it was the only one of my hardback titles that was never reprinted. I wonder why?!! 'GWR Country Stations' was repeatedly reprinted and remained in print for over 15 years but I had accepted a flat fee for that  so I saw not an extra penny, despite the fact that there must have been several thousand copies on bookshelves. I bought the last few dozen copies myself to stop them being disposed of through one of those £ shops. It was a similar story with 'Portrait of the L&B' - although I did manage to get a typo corrected, so the subsequent print runs were really 'new editions' rather than strict reprints. The practice which I really hated and which, in my view, Ian Allan contributed to the decline of interest in general railway books, is the 'cheapo' reprint, printed abroad by scanning a copy of the original book - the resulting in loss of all definition in the photos. This was done to the original 'Aerofilms Book of Britain's Railways From the Air' where, despite changing the dust jacket illustrations, the original £16.95 price was left on the flap to give the impression that customers were getting a bargain when it was sold for £3.99 or whatever. They weren't. The quality bore no relation to the original £16.95 volume. If you're looking to buy a copy secondhand, ignore the version with four small images on the cover. That's the cheap reprint. The genuine original has a single view of an HST on the cover - I had them take it specially for the book and even told them where they might be able to chase one at a suitable speed for the aircraft. (CJL)

 

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Even very low print run academic books (1000 run) still pay royalties if you deal with the right pubishers. You need to shop around or even get a literary agent if you are likely to shift a lot of copies. I hate to see authors getting short changed, especially when book production costs have fallen so much in recent years. 

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Here's a link to the ST article: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trainspotters-last-refuge-ian-allan-book-model-shop-puffs-towards-its-waterloo-sunset-j3t5cwpd6

 

That's paywalled of course, so for the benefit of those who can't read it, here are a couple of quotes. The author of the article is, apparently, the daughter of a trainspotter, and she writes:


 

Quote

 

My father, 70, is a railway enthusiast. As a teenager, I spent more weekends than I care to remember standing in the rain on a platform trying to hide my face and smother my shame.

 

If there is a brutal regime looking for new ways to torture young women, asking them to pick up a copy of Railway Modeller on the way home from school is a good start.

 


 

Quote

 

Lately I have realised he is having the last laugh. Not only has his hobby relieved the stress of a high-pressure career and eased the shift to retirement. It is also now mitigating the boredom of being locked down. There is a poignancy to Ian Allan closing at a time when hobbies have never felt more important.

 

Nick Allan says the decision to close is commercial. Most specialist titles are now on Amazon and, while the magazine circulations drop, the chatter of excited hobbyists thrums on in online forums.

 

 

 

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Read the sad news in the Sunday Times today which seems to be another nail in the coffin for small shops that have anything to do with our hobby. Another great transport  book shop nearby was Motor Books in Cecil Court that also seems to have closed. That isn't me by the way.

Motor Books.jpg

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