2-EPB’s used on the North London Line

[Jeremy Cumberland]

9 hours ago, SRman said:

I've seen that classification used too. Presumably an EPB version of NOL, just as HAP was to HAL, and probably due to the origins of the underframes.

I've never quite managed to work out which is worse, to have no lavatory, or to have only half a lavatory.

[eastwestdivide]

6 minutes ago, Jeremy C said:

... only half a lavatory

Which half?

 

Mind you, I was never entirely sure of the technology underneath a 2HAP: half a pneumatic brake?

[eastwestdivide]

On 12/09/2020 at 12:25, Gwiwer said:

2EPB units incidentally had their narrow roller-blinds above the two-character headcode equipped with destinations for the NLL service.  The original purpose of those narrow blinds was to display bars or dots above the headcode which modified its meaning.  These had been abandoned some time in the 1970s but the equipment was not removed.  Tiny lettering which was quite hard to read showed Richmond, Stratford, N. Woolwich and others

 

I'd forgotten that - 'Richmond' is just about visible here on a set near Old Oak Common in 1987:

 

Edited September 13, 2020 by eastwestdivide

[keefer]

It's hardly noticeable is it? A board in the secondman's window would've been more legible! 

[Zomboid]

They'd have been better off introducing route numbers like they had on the rest of the Southern at the time.

[Jeremy Cumberland]

3 hours ago, Zomboid said:

They'd have been better off introducing route numbers like they had on the rest of the Southern at the time.

And they had on the Watford local lines. I rarely used the North London till after the 501s disappeared, but I imagine it used route numbers as well. However, I expect they'd have needed to add a "B" to the left-hand blind.

[Gwiwer]

4 hours ago, Zomboid said:

They'd have been better off introducing route numbers like they had on the rest of the Southern at the time.

A two-digit headcode was occasionally shown in the NLL 2EPB units in their earlier days.  IIRC it was 37 but please correct me if that's wrong.  It was always the same number.  There is of course a chance that when I saw that displayed it was also the same driver.  

[roythebus]

On 13/09/2020 at 20:30, eastwestdivide said:

Which half?

 

Mind you, I was never entirely sure of the technology underneath a 2HAP: half a pneumatic brake?

You're mixing those up with the 508s, the brakes on those were bloody awful!  I speak from bitter experience..mever had a problem with SUBs/EPs or the main line stuff, but 508s, nah!

 

[Gwiwer]

34 minutes ago, roythebus said:

You're mixing those up with the 508s, the brakes on those were bloody awful!  I speak from bitter experience..mever had a problem with SUBs/EPs or the main line stuff, but 508s, nah!

 

Half a lavatory .  Same as the 2-Hal units.   

 

Strictly HAalf the carriages in the unit have a Lavatory; Hap units ditto plus electro-Pneumatic brakes.  A second-cousin was the SAP unit which was Second Class Only 'Alf-the-coaches-have-a-bog but all have an electro-Pneumatic brake! .  Dating from the SR's fixation with toilets which ironically did not extend to the 6-Pan units (6-car unit with PANtry).  Neither did the 4LAV units have four such facilities - they were four coaches long but only one offered relief from the City's Gin and Tonic on the way home!!!

 

 

Edited September 15, 2020 by Gwiwer

[EddieB]

This thread brings back some half-forgotten memories. 

 

Here is 6318 approaching Canonbury in April 1986.  Huge changes to the station since then, particularly with enlargement for the services to South London from Highbury & Islington.  Back in 1986 there were just the two platforms, but with avoiding freight loops "round the back" (just visible under the bridges).

 

 

Not that all freights used the loop lines.  On the same day, 47 310 passes through Canonbury on a stone train.

 

[keefer]

is that PTA tipplers behind 47310?

my (limited) knowledge of them is mainly the iron ore flows to steelworks, although i think there may also have been ECML limestone?

[EddieB]

10 hours ago, keefer said:

is that PTA tipplers behind 47310?

my (limited) knowledge of them is mainly the iron ore flows to steelworks, although i think there may also have been ECML limestone?

I’m afraid I’m not an expert on wagons, and didn’t make records of the workings then - though I may have an old Freightmaster (can’t remember when they first came out).  All I can say is that it was a Thursday (24th April - two days before the Chernobyl disaster).

[Oldddudders]

Was it Canonbury where there was a sign on the platform saying "Way Out West"?

[jim.snowdon]

18 hours ago, roythebus said:

You're mixing those up with the 508s, the brakes on those were bloody awful!  I speak from bitter experience..mever had a problem with SUBs/EPs or the main line stuff, but 508s, nah!

 

Strangely, we had the four-step version of the Westcode brake on the 1973 and D78 stock and, from my experience driving test trains, it was a very amenable brake with no particular vices. I suspect the BR version suffered from being limited to only three of the seven available steps, possibly done to limit the number of wires across the coupler to the Southern's standard 27 (even though the 507/508 units had auto-couplers, the 455s reverted to jumpers).

 

Jim

[eastwestdivide]

22 hours ago, keefer said:

is that PTA tipplers behind 47310?

my (limited) knowledge of them is mainly the iron ore flows to steelworks, although i think there may also have been ECML limestone?

Yeoman took and repainted some for Mendip stone - I think I’ve a pic at Stratford

[keefer]

Thanks for that.

Funnily enough I watched a Soi Buakhao video on YouTube today, taken at Woodgrange Park in August 1988.

Outside my usual area of interest of the NLL/GOBLIN, but in amongst the rasping 104s there are Yeoman/ARC? stone trains - Travelling westwards they take the Stratford route, presumably to reach the NLL.

What was the flow?

 

[SRman]

As a slight aside, those class 104 units were known for having two DMBS vehicles, with a few eventually wearing NSE livery, but have a look at the blue/grey unit from just after the 8:30 mark: the lower line of the grey on each of the vehicles is markedly different. Another "prototype for everything" example.

[nigb55009]

The two class 37s at the start of the clip head through the junction towards Stratford. I would hazard a guess that the train is from Purfleet heading to Acton Yard. The route taken would be via Stratford, onto the NLL as far as Acton Wells Junction then Acton Yard.

[Oldddudders]

7 minutes ago, nigb55009 said:

The two class 37s at the start of the clip head through the junction towards Stratford. I would hazard a guess that the train is from Purfleet heading to Acton Yard. The route taken would be via Stratford, onto the NLL as far as Acton Wells Junction then Acton Yard.

Stratford? I would have thought over the top at Barking and then heading via the Tottenham & Hampstead?

[Joseph_Pestell]

18 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

Stratford? I would have thought over the top at Barking and then heading via the Tottenham & Hampstead?

At one time, the viaducts around Leyton were not considered strong enough for some freight. So these had to be routed via Stratford which, of course, caused massive timetabling issues. 

I think that it has been dealt with since.

[bécasse]

On 14/09/2020 at 14:11, Jeremy C said:

And they had on the Watford local lines. I rarely used the North London till after the 501s disappeared, but I imagine it used route numbers as well. However, I expect they'd have needed to add a "B" to the left-hand blind.

The LH blind could display A (not used), B for passenger trains or C for ecs.

The RH blind displays were used to indicate the destination of the train:

1 Euston

   Watford Junction from New Line stations

2 Broad Street via Primrose Hill

   Watford Junction from Broad Street

3 Not used on NL electrics (reserved for Belmont and St.Albans branches)

4 Broad Street via Hampstead Heath

   Richmond

   Willesden HL from Richmond

5 Willesden HL from Broad Street

6 Willesden New

7 Harrow

8 Bushey

9 Croxley Green

   Watford Junction from Croxley Green

0 Mitre Bridge shed (only with C prefix)

X Dalston Junction sidings (only with C prefix)

Y Croxley Green shed (only with C prefix)

Z Stonebridge Park shed (only with C prefix)

[EddieB]

2 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

Stratford? I would have thought over the top at Barking and then heading via the Tottenham & Hampstead?

No, in the video they take the junction to the right to join up with the GEML at Forest Gate.  They would then take the NLL at Stratford.  (Note the speed restriction signs on the approach to Woodgrange Park - 30 mph straight ahead through the junction, 15 mph to the right).

 

Nowadays their counterparts (Purfleet FY/Dagenham Dock ARC - Acton TC) carry straight on over the GOBLIN route, joining the NLL at Gospel Oak - except when the GOBLIN is closed, when they revert to the former routing.

[nigb55009]

According to Realtime Trains, stone trains between Purfleet/Dagenham to and from Acton still use both routes via Stratford and the GOBLIN. Trains use both routes throughout the day and night.

[bigP]

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Edited February 1, 2021 by bigP
Deleted