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*** that for a game of solder...


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  • RMweb Gold

Those who read my rants and screeds here may be aware that I have for many years had a wobbly relationship with my soldering iron.  I have never really got the hang of the art, though I understand the principles well enough.  They just work for other people and not me and I have put it down to me doing something wrong that is so obvious that everybody else in the world gets it and I just, well, don't.  Of course this must be nonsense, but the evidence keeps piling up that it is true.

 

When I returned to the hobby nearly 4 years ago, I realised that I would have to solder things occasionally no matter how much I tried to avoid it.  Memory of my previous iron, gone with many other things in the many moves between dodgy flats I undertook while I was in the wilderness, was that I could never get the solder to melt properly.  It was a 25watter, don't ask me to remember the make, I'd like to say Antex but I wouldn't swear to it.  At it, but not to it...

 

So, I thought, I'll up the ante a bit, and bought a Maplins 45 watt beast.  But the problem seemed worse than ever.  I brought it up on a visit to Lord and Butler's; 'Ah' says Peter Lord. 'what type of solder are you using'?  'Dunno', I says, 'solder, in a sort of plastic bottle with the solder sticking out the end'.  'Try this stuff, it's low melting point'.  'Ok, sure, but I think the stuff I've got is low melting point'.  'Can't be, or you wouldn't be having trouble with a 45 watt iron'.  Well, I had to accept this, as it made complete sense as opposed to my continued failure to get solder to do what I want it to do. 

 

The new solder performed a little better but it still took up to a minute to get it to melt.  I persevered, successfully rewiring a loco or two, but matters deteriorated over time.  So last night I decided that this was because of a coat of oxidised metal on the iron tip, and took the tip out of the iron to clean it.  I also remembered that my old 25 watt iron had a tip with a sort of flat cut at an angle at the end, and this one comes to a point.  Shouldn't that mean that more heat is concentrated at the point?  Oh, what the..., I can't make it any worse, can I, the thing's pretty much unusable anyway...

 

So, I attacked it with a slitting disc, cutting a similar angled flat.  Now, this is more like it!  The solder melts within a second or two of the iron being applied, and is controllable.  I might be able to solder reliably now, even neatly in time!  Why didn't I do this 4 years ago?  Well, we all know the answer to that, I'm stupid!  Why have I done it now?  I'm not that stupid!

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Well, to my knowledge it is not good practice to carve away at the solder iron bit.  It has a coating and, in my experience will oxidize fairly quickly with use.  The tip of the bit should be shiny and you ought to be able to pick up a piece of solder with it (BTW, for years my method has been to cut off a tiny piece of solder and pick it up with the iron to apply to the work.  This helps control the amount of solder).  A replacement bit should solve that problem if it goes black.  Get into the habit of cleaning the bit frequently.  I have some brass wool that works surprisingly well.

 

Solder:  basically three types: 70C, 145C and 188C.  The last is typical of electrical 60/40 solder.  145C is commonly used for building brass kits.  70C is not strictly solder at all, I have been informed, and is used for whitemetal.  Unless things have changed, don't get lead free solder.  In my experience it won't flow well and is a nuisance.

 

I can recommend DCC Concepts solder and flux.  If you buy materials formulated for the modeller you won't go far wrong.

 

John

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I use a 25w Antex with a variety of bits depending on what I want solder. I have an iron holder which has a ball a stuff on it to clean the iron, I'm told it doesn't wear out the bit like the previous patch of wetted foam. I also use rosin cored solder with a tub of extra rosin if I need it, a fibre brush for cleaning, solder paste for details, lots of cocktail sticks and a roll of draughting tape to keep bits together just in case the work gets too hot.

That's it I think

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  • RMweb Gold
26 minutes ago, brossard said:

 Unless things have changed, don't get lead free solder.  In my experience it won't flow well and is a nuisance.


+1 to that. I wish they had never invented the stuff. At least buying lead solder is easier now than it was. 
 

I also fully agree with not carving into bits, the life will be significantly shortened.


Frequent cleaning, as you suggest is key, as is making sure what you are soldering is clean and suitably fluxed. 
 

Roy

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Before I returned to the hobby a few years ago, I tried to hack an old smoke detector to convert it to a leak detector. All OK except for my soldering. The solder would just stay on the tip and and bead-up. Could never get it on the circuit connections.

 

Chatted to my brother-in-law who's first questions was "What solder are you using". Dunno said I, label long gone.

 

He kept asking some questions to which I didn't have the answer, then when I started to describe the solder the penny dropped. I had this big spool of solder, quite thick 'wire'. "Ah, that plumbers solder. There's no flux in that and, besides, it's totally the wrong stuff unless you are soldering copper pipes."

 

Lesson learned.

 

25 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said:

I also fully agree with not carving into bits, the life will be significantly shortened.

 

Wouldn't totally agree with that (see, now I'm an expert :D). I have an old soldering iron from my childhood days, which was already old at that time. It has a lovely brass (or brass/copper alloy?) tip which can be filed. I've done this rarely as I don't want to file it all away, but when the tip gets bad it really helps to carefully clean the tip. I do this by filing the solder off and then just a smidgen more until I see the shiny brass/copper stuff.

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I wonder if the initial tinning of the new soldering iron tip was missed? When a new bit (or complete new iron) is warmed up for the first time it is vital that as it warms it is tinned by touching (dabbing) the end of the roll of solder to the tip every few seconds until the tip is hot enough to melt the solder, then once it is melting the solder continue to dab the solder onto the tip until the whole tip surface is covered in a fine layer of bright shiny molten solder.  The  rest of the bit will go through a wonderful set of colours as it warms up too!

 

Failure to tin the bit as it warms for the first time will result in the bit oxidising and hence needed to be filed/cut to reveal a non-oxidised surface. 

 

For regular tip cleaning when using the iron I find the stuff that looks like brass wire-wool is excellent. https://hobbyking.com/en_us/yihua-soldering-iron-tip-cleaning-station.html?countrycode=GB&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI95vGtN3f6wIVlt4YCh0dGgdzEAQYBCABEgLeG_D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds&___store=en_us

 

Likewise if ever you use the tip to melt plastic* then make sure that you wipe the tip immediately on a bit of rag and re-tin or the plastic residue will eat through the plated surface in very short order. 

 

*not recommended but there are times when you need to melt a bit of wire into a bogie frame for a pick-up etc...

 

Andi

Edited by Dagworth
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I suppose I should provide some clarification.  There is soldering wire to rails and electrical work and there is brass/NS kit building.

 

For kits I usually use 188C (for strength) or 145C solder (for details).  I like to use non-acid flux these days.  I have used acid flux like Carrs Green in the past but I hate the fumes.

 

For electrical I use 188C (60/40) uncored solder, and rosin flux - well, that's me.

 

John

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  • RMweb Gold

 

You can quite happily file a tip to whatever shape you need, with the proviso that it is a quality tip with a copper core, when filed dip it into some tip cleaner with flux already on the bit and there is no problem, unless of course I've been doing something wrong for forty years or more!

Remember, when soldering, cleanliness is next to godliness or impossible depending on your point of view.

 

Mike.

 

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Some of the best loco building modellers made their own copper soldering iron bits to suit special situations, including ones that had various bends to allow them to solder around corners.

 

A tip that goes to a fine point is really designed for soldering electrical components, such as components onto printed circuit boards, where you don't want the heat spreading about too much, you want it just in one tiny place.

 

That is not good for putting kits etc. together as we need the heat over a bigger area. A bigger, flat tip is much better for most of what we do.

 

Where many people go wrong is that they think that the art of soldering is all about melting the solder. It isn't. If you put molten solder onto cold metal, you will very likely get a brittle joint as the solder cools too quickly. If you can get the metal hot enough that the solder melts on the metal, you will usually find that you have a good strong joint.

 

As Mike says, the metal must be clean, the tip must be clean enough that the solder will tin it and you need a good flux. That is a subject in itself and if you ask 10 modellers about which is the best flux, you will get 11 answers!

 

I usually say try a few different ones and find one that suits you.

 

  

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Some of these little sponges will do the trick :

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Soldering-Iron-Sponge-Tip-Cleaning-Pads-Solder-Cleaner/164306684080?hash=item26417108b0:g:Z3oAAOSwztRe-8M2

 

Wet them before use, wipe the tip of the iron on them frequently while using it and it should keep the soldering iron tip shiny.

 

The other thing to check is that you are using solder aren't you, not fuse wire? :)

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  • RMweb Gold
Just now, MartynJPearson said:

Some of these little sponges will do the trick :

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Soldering-Iron-Spong-Tip-Cleaning-Pads-Solder-Cleaner/164306684080?hash=item26417108b0:g:Z3oAAOSwztRe-8M2

 

Wet them before use, wipe the tip of the iron on them frequently while using it and it should keep the soldering iron tip shiny.

 

The other thing to check is that you are using solder aren't you, not fuse wire? :)

 

As Tony mentioned above, everyone has their own favourite method, personally I think the wet sponge is the worst thing you can use, cools the iron tip down unnecessarily and the lime and such stuff in the water will do for the tip in time.

 

Mike.

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2 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

You can quite happily file a tip to whatever shape you need, with the proviso that it is a quality tip with a copper core, when filed dip it into some tip cleaner with flux already on the bit and there is no problem, unless of course I've been doing something wrong for forty years or more!

 

You can do, but the exposed copper will actually dilute in the molten solder alloy building up a Sn-Pb-Cu with a higher melting point. No problem, if you wipe and retin the tip frequently and if you don''t care that the solder erodes the exposed copper.

 

Michael

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3 minutes ago, michl080 said:

 

You can do, but the exposed copper will actually dilute in the molten solder alloy building up a Sn-Pb-Cu with a higher melting point. No problem, if you wipe and retin the tip frequently and if you don''t care that the solder erodes the exposed copper.

 

Michael

 

As in all walks of life, maintaining your tip is paramount for continued satisfaction.

 

Mike.

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That T-shirt reminds me of my early days working in a factory making lighting transformers. Our soldering irons had replaceable elements and at least once a quarter we would need to change one. Usually, no problems except one day i forgot to turn it off and unplug it from the mains first. Lets say my hair was never quite the same afterwards!!! The electrical burn on my hand smelt awful and everyone in the factory fell over backwards laughing!!

 

Vaulable lesson learned and it definately did not smell like chicken!

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For successful soldering, one requires a large enough iron, good* cored solder or separate flux (I tend to use both) and the workpieces must be clean. The solder should flow instantly. If it doesn't the iron is not hot enough or too small. Do not move the parts as they cool. The inevitable result is a dry joint.

 

My preferred make is Antex. Rapid bit wear is common on inferior products.

 

*Inferior products are available, usually but not exclusively from the Far East.

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I think modern bits shouldn't be filed if at all possible, they are made with a coating that protects the bit.  I use both a sponge and a 'brass swarf' cleanrer - along with a small tin of bit cleaner which I find invaluable if the bit gets a bit 'mucky'.  A quick dip/rub in this, wipe it on the sponge and all is well.  I use Poweflo flux for all 'average' work with the occasional acid flux application when I feel it is required.  My iron is an RS Components adjustable temperature one which I tend to use turned up to 11 (or at least, quite high!).  Solder 99% of the time is 145.  Very rare that I have any 'failures' - but they do occur occasionally and most of the time I can recognise why.

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3 hours ago, Il Grifone said:

For successful soldering, one requires a large enough iron, good* cored solder or separate flux (I tend to use both) and the workpieces must be clean. The solder should flow instantly. If it doesn't the iron is not hot enough or too small. Do not move the parts as they cool. The inevitable result is a dry joint.

 

My preferred make is Antex. Rapid bit wear is common on inferior products.

 

*Inferior products are available, usually but not exclusively from the Far East.

Amen to that, by far the best iron I had was an antex sadly the thermostat failed in the station and whilst using it the iron started glowing red so had to be binned....but it was near Indestructible tips lasted ages...now ive got a maplin solder station and it chews through tips like no tomorrow! I have to run it set to 300c to get any useful life out of them any higher and the tips just erode too quickly.

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Thank you all; some first class advice here that I'd not been aware of before.  I suspect my newly cut tip will oxidise fairly quickly and I will have to file it to keep it clean; it won't last long. When if is too far gone to use, I'll either buy a new tip or a new iron.  The iron came from Maplin's with a 'station', a sort of springy thingy on a base to put the iron in while one is using it, but I'm very unimpressed with this; it is too light and I am constantly afraid that the combination of the weight of the iron and the drag of the cable will pull it on to the floor.  

 

The solder wire is lead free, so I'll bin it and get some new stuff.

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Soldering iron stands need to be heavy and.or screwed down. One doesn't want a hot iron flying about. They all seem to come with a heavy gauge cable irremediably kinked by being clamped up to get it into an undersized box. It should be heat resistant cable, so replacement is difficult.* Forced 'unkinking' is only partially successful, or has someone a technique for doing it.

Heat from a hairdryer possibly?

 

* And possibly needs a second iron and invalidates the guarantee.

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1 minute ago, Il Grifone said:

Soldering iron stands need to be heavy and.or screwed down. One doesn't want a hot iron flying about. They all seem to come with a heavy gauge cable irremediably kinked by being clamped up to get it into an undersized box. It should be heat resistant cable, so replacement is difficult.* Forced 'unkinking' is only partially successful, or has someone a technique for doing it.

Heat from a hairdryer possibly?

 

* And possibly needs a second iron and invalidates the guarantee.

The Antex XS25 is available with a heat resistant silicon cable. 
 

I use the Antex stand screwed to a piece of wood to keep it more stable. 
 

Andi

 

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19 hours ago, Il Grifone said:

*Inferior products are available, usually but not exclusively from the Far East.

 

Not necessarily.  I've got two Antex irons and have never been able to get on with either of them.  Then I got an Aoyue soldering station which gave me years of reliable service before it was relegated from the workbench to the layout room when I got a Hakko for a recent birthday present.  That too is excellent (as it should be for the price).  One of the advantages of both of these is that there is a very wide range of inexpensive tips available for them.

 

So as well as getting a decent soldering iron, it's also important that you have a selection of tips as trying to solder a very small joint with a large tip or a large joint with a small tip will not work.  I like chisel shaped tips and have a wide selection, partly because I thought I'd lost some and so replaced them only to find the originals again.  With both the Aoyue and the Hakko it is easy to change tips during the soldering job.

 

Solder - as others have said, DO NOT get the lead free stuff.  I use ordinary flux-cored solder wire a lot, but for kits I find that a specialist solder such as Carrs 145 or 188 degree seems to run more smoothly.  Cored solder or not, I always use additional flux, usually Carrs Green Label.  And if you possibly can, don't put the solder on the iron and then take it to the work - instead, put a bit of the solder on the clean fluxed joint and apply the hot iron to it. (For cleaning the joint before soldering, the dreaded fibre glass brush comes into its own).

 

For cleanliness, brass swarf or damp sponge - I use both.  With a decent iron, a quick wipe of the tip on the sponge isn't going to lose you any heat that won't be immediately made up again.

 

DT

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18 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Thank you all; some first class advice here that I'd not been aware of before.  I suspect my newly cut tip will oxidise fairly quickly and I will have to file it to keep it clean; it won't last long. When if is too far gone to use, I'll either buy a new tip or a new iron.  The iron came from Maplin's with a 'station', a sort of springy thingy on a base to put the iron in while one is using it, but I'm very unimpressed with this; it is too light and I am constantly afraid that the combination of the weight of the iron and the drag of the cable will pull it on to the floor.  

 

The solder wire is lead free, so I'll bin it and get some new stuff.

 

I started off with a small unbranded iron on a stand, the tip got too dirty and as I had to use an abrasive the coating got damaged and in the end every now and then it needed a quick file to clean and flatten the tip Its end was sealed. Still it taught me to solder and the need to use the correct solder and flux for the job and keeping the tip clean

 

I then bought a 25 watt Antex iron, learnt the hard way about tinning a new tip, still the tips were quite cheap and found that having a selection of different size and shape tips made both bigger and smaller jobs easier

 

Now I have a 75 watt solder station, I bought a 10 tip selection pack and this unit is far more versatile, the 75 watt rating allows me to do larger jobs, but also by dialing the temperature down to 300 degrees makes soldering whitemetal so much easier, it also came with a free tip cleaner, some form of resin in the base and a pan scourer type material above, so much better than a damp sponge

 

https://www.circuitspecialists.eu/soldering/soldering-stations/csi-premier75w-digital-temperature-controlled-solder-station-with-75w-soldering-iron/

 

There are many products similar to this, its an entry level unit at the moment fin for what I need

 

https://www.circuitspecialists.eu/soldering-tip-cleaner-with-rosin-flux-reservoir-csi-08c/

 

This is great for any make, as I said far better than any sponge

Edited by hayfield
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