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ECoS - Not recognising RailCom


reggie
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hmmm not too far behind, unlikely to be that.....there is a CV which controls railcom on the decoder but I can't remember what it is ive been looking but can't work out what that is either......I take it the railcom symbol doesn't appear on the display

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Railcom plus came after a firmware upgrade, originally the ECoS only had railcom suppport via the ECoS detector modules.

 

But the firmware reggie has should have railcom plus enabled provided its turned on. Which he says it is

 

Do you get the green dcc scroll bar at the top of your display reggie?

 

If you can connect your pc it might be worth reloading your firmware, in the past I have had my ECoS do funny thinfs after a firmware upgrade, like crash when consisting. Reinstalling the firmware resolved this.

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I know for a fact railcom decoders can be used without railcom enabled, I found this out a while ago when assigning a new Loco on the ECoS, TBH the only thing I find railcom useful for is when a new sound Loco is put on the roster and railcom assigns all the function buttons correctly, although this might only be the case if the original sound programmer has enabled that particular part of railcom?

 

As previously mentioned I’d check and maybe red lash with the latest software, just to be sure.

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The auto assigning of function keys etc is Railcom Plus, not Railcom. Lots of decoders have Railcom, far fewer have Railcom Plus. My go to decoder is the Zimo MX617, which has Railcom, but the ECoS doesn't do any of the auto detection stuff. You can, of course use dection modules which will allow two way communication of Railcom decoders to identify specific trains in blocks, but I wasn't aware of a native capability to do that.

 

And yes, Railcom (and Railcom Plus) can be disabled without affecting the decoder usage. Indeed I've seen it said you should turn them off if you're not using it.

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On 11/09/2020 at 09:15, reggie said:

Hi All,

 

I have the ECoS DCC Controller and it has stopped recognising RailCom decoders on the layout.

I have checked RailCom is enabled on the system.

 

Anyone else had this issue or know what might be the problem?

 

Thanks 

 

Reggie

 

 

I don't understand what you're trying to say as there are several interpretations possible to "...stopped recognising RailCom decoders...".

 

Do you mean that you've got ECoSDetectors and the address/Loco name isn't showing up in the "ICE" box on the track plan diagram?

Or that the ECoS isn't autoregistering new locos?

Or that your locos have stopped responding to commands from the ECoS?

 

To fix my first point, you need the ECoS configured so that RailCom is turned on, abd the loco decoders must also have RailCom turned on using CV29. But it is possible that the address read function in the ECoSDetector has failed andthat's where teh fault lies, not in the ECoS.

 

To fix the second one, you need the ECoS configured to have RailCom Plus turned on, and RailCom Plus must also be turned on in the decoder which is CV28 on Loksound & LokPilot 4s and 5s. but remember, the ECoS will not autoregister a new decoder if the decoder hasn't got RailCom Plus at all, or if the decoder does have RailCom Plus but it's turned off in the decoder.

 

More info might be needed for try to work out what's happened if the locos have become non-responsive to commands from the ECoS.

 

It would also be useful to know which ECoS you have, the Black & White ECoS 1 (50000), or the first colour one ECoS 2 (50200), or the curent model the ECoS 2.1 (50210), because if it is the ECoS 1, there is a possiblility that the problem is component failure due to its age..

 

The reason for turning off Railcom and Railcom Plus on an ECoS if you don't use them is that it reduces the chances of problems with decoders due to Railcom or Railcom Plus incompatibility. Some older N. American decoders don't like RailCom. It less likely to be a problem with European decoders as the continental manufacturers were faster to adopt RailCom than the N. American brands. It is also recommended with an ECoS that you turn off the Maerklin MM and mfx/M4 and Selectrix protocols as those too can cause problems for decoders not designed to function in a multi-digitial protocol environment.

 

I have an ECoS, and I let new locos with RailCom Plus autoregister, and then I turn off Railcom Plus (but keep RailCom turned on) in the decoder and set the address to one that I want to use for the loco. That is how you can have duplicate addresses across decoders with Railcom Plus as an ECoS won't change the address of a decoder if it can't communicate with it via RailCom Plus. 

 

Edited by GoingUnderground
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Hi GoingUnderground,

 

Thanks for your reply. Sorry i was not clear enough, The ECoS is the 50210, bought in 2017. 

 

The only issue is your second point, it will not auto register locos with railcom fitted decoders, however it did up until a couple of months ago, for example I purchased a Hattons sound fitted 66 and it auto registered it, I then purchased another and it did not. I also have the new Bachman 158 with plux22 decoder, and again failed to recognise it. I have checked that railcom is enabled, and downloaded the latest firmware, I will check the decoder CV's as your suggestion. Also there used to by a 'railcom' symbol on the screen when running a loco with railcom I think, that no longer comes up of course.

 

It's not a massive issue, just an annoyance really, but it would be good to find out why it has stopped working, if possible,

 

Thanks 

 

Reggie.

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I have an ECoS 50200 and have also just got a Bachmann sound fitted 158. I assume it doesn’t have RailCom as I had to set up the functions manually. I also got a Bachmann 8 pin chip for an old DMU yesterday that was advertised as railcom and the ECoS recognised it. So my command station is working OK, it’s just that I don’t think the 158 chip is railcom.  

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43 minutes ago, Hibelroad said:

I have an ECoS 50200 and have also just got a Bachmann sound fitted 158. I assume it doesn’t have RailCom as I had to set up the functions manually. I also got a Bachmann 8 pin chip for an old DMU yesterday that was advertised as railcom and the ECoS recognised it. So my command station is working OK, it’s just that I don’t think the 158 chip is railcom.  

I fitted a plux 22 Bachmann decoder and it is Railcom, so should be recognised, and the Hattons sound decoders are so it should recognise those too.

I'm not sure about the sound fitted 158.

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The decoder in the Bachmann 158 is a Zimo MX645P22. It does use the Plux22 interface but as far as I know it will only be Railcom if the manufacturer has programmed it to be Railcom. However I am no DCC expert so maybe someone can clarify this. 

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There is RailCom and there is RailCom-Plus.   

 

RailCom is supported by Zimo (all decoders, for at least a dozen years if not further back). 
But may require CV changes to enable RailCom in a decoder.  Out-of-the-factory they come with RailCom turned on, but a sound developer might have turned it off in their project, leaving the CV's to be changed back by the end user.  

 

RailCom-Plus is essentially Lenz and ESU proprietary system.   Some of the auto-identify stuff in an ECoS uses this, but only works onto decoders supporting RailCom Plus. 

 

If you dig back through the Zimo website's monthly newsletters, you'll find stuff about Zimo falling out with ESU over RailCom-Plus.  

 

 

 

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I have just done some internet digging and found that for the Zimo chip to operate in Railcom mode CV28 should be 3 and CV29 bit 3 should be 1 (CV29 total will then be 14). It should be easy to check this on the ECoS and set individual bits. Unfortunately I will not be able to look into this tonight but I intend to check it out tomorrow and see if the CVs are set correctly or if changing them makes the difference. So in summary, at the moment my ECoS is recognising Railcom but would not recognise the Bachmann 158 chip as Railcom. 

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CV29 controls several modes of operation so it is impossible to say that it should be a specific value. As an example, if you are using long addresses on locos, it has to be at least 32! Forcing it to, say, 14 will turn long addressing off! (Use 46 instead!)

 

As an aside, and slightly :offtopic:, as RailCom is written into CV29 and is part of the NMRA 'standard', does not having supporting RailCom make a decoder or controller non-NMRA compliant?

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16 hours ago, BokStein said:

......As an aside, and slightly :offtopic:, as RailCom is written into CV29 and is part of the NMRA 'standard', does not having supporting RailCom make a decoder or controller non-NMRA compliant?


RailCom is the NMRA standard for DCC bi-directional communication, but employing bi-directional communication capability is an optional feature for decoders and DCC systems and not compulsory. 

 

Therefore, if a DCC system or decoder doesn’t have RailCom, that doesn’t make it non-compliant.


RailCom Plus is a separate extension to RailCom and not currently covered by the NMRA standards.

 

(p.s. by definition, a DCC  “controller “ is a decoder. i.e. the decoder is the controller)

 

 

 

.

 

Edited by Ron Ron Ron
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50 minutes ago, BokStein said:

 

 

As an aside, and slightly :offtopic:, as RailCom is written into CV29 and is part of the NMRA 'standard', does not having supporting RailCom make a decoder or controller non-NMRA compliant?

As I said, you can use Railcom compatible detection modules with an ECoS, including the ECoS detector. As said several times though, people are conflating Railcom and Railcom Plus, and most behaviours mentioned are Railcom Plus. 

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Autoregistration of a DCC loco ONLY takes place IF ALL the following conditions are met 100%

1. Your DCC controller, such as the ECoS, has RailCom PLUS, AND

2. The controller has RailCom PLUS turned on, AND

3. The decoder has RailCom PLUS, AND

4. RailCom PLUS is turned on in the decoder.

 

Just having Railcom isn't enough. You must have RailCom PLUS.

 

When ESU invented RailCom Plus, they were trying to give the DCC world similar decoder/loco autoregistration to that already enjoyed by Maerklin owners under their mfx digital system. IT's good with new locos, and takes the faff out of setting up all the functions, especially with so many sound decoders doing their best to use every available function button. But as far as I'm concerned once it's done that very desirable task I always turn off PLUS in the decoder, but keep it turned on in the ECoS. That way your ECoS will leave Plus decoders alone, but it will be ready to autoregister your next new loco with a PLUS enabled decoder. 

 

Going back to Reggie's original problem, it may be quite simple, your new locos/decoders that aren't autoregistering simply don't have PLUS, or if they do it will may be turned off in the decoder. In ESU decoders, PLUS only arrived with V4 decoders. So if your 66 is an older one with a LokSound 3.5 it won't have PLUS, and also won't have RailCom as that also only came to Loksounds with the V4. LokPilot 3s did have Railcom, but in the early ones it needed to be turned on with a decoder firmware upgrade. LokPilot 4s had PLUS from new.

 

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Thanks very much all for your replies and information.

 

I will have a play around when i get a chance and check the decoder CV's. I have checked the ECoS is Railcom enabled and Motoroller etc is disabled, and have installed the latest firmware. The Class 66's are the latest Hattons sound fitted so it should recognise them, and did originally auto register one, so I'm still a bit baffled on that one!

 

 

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15 minutes ago, reggie said:

.....I have checked the ECoS is Railcom enabled and Motoroller etc is disabled, and have installed the latest firmware. .....

 

Reggie, you haven't mentioned RailCom Plus.

Note what has been said above with regard to the distinction between RailCom and RailCom Plus.

 

Ron

 

.

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Well I spent the morning fiddling with the CVs on the Bachmann 158 but no luck so I think the problem is a lack of Railcom plus as above. I did learn a bit more about the ECoS in the process and speeded up the 158 acceleration rate (which was pitifully slow) so the morning was not wasted. 

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1 hour ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

Reggie, you haven't mentioned RailCom Plus.

Note what has been said above with regard to the distinction between RailCom and RailCom Plus.

 

Ron

 

.

Thanks Ron, i will check later when I can get on the layout re Railcom plus

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