MR-ish Themed Freight Switching Layout

[GarrettTheThief]

Hi all,

 

I've spent a lot of time putting this together and frankly, it needs picking apart by people who are familiar with Midland Railway freight operations and/or shunting operations in general. In fact, I welcome all criticisms and suggestions, especially when it comes to the arrangement of scenery and key structures.

 

But before I get to that, here's a bit of background for anyone curious:

 

• Despite my desire to accurately model the East Midlands region from late 1986 to 2003 for nostalgia, I also started taking an interest in the Midland Railway period. Just because. I mean, just LOOK at those beautiful crimson locos.
• My primary focus and interest has been passenger stock, partly to feed my nostalgia, and more recently due to constraints on my time and space which limits the number of projects I can line up. Or so I thought, until the MR period caught my attention and I saw that as an opportunity to pilot/develop my skills before focusing on the more modern-era stuff, which will be a more serious endeavour.
• Off that, I've acquired a number of Griff coal wagons (which I plan on running through my planned layouts full/empty from/toward the general Nuneaton/London direction), and some garish private owner stock. This actually offers me a creative outlet! By applying creative weathering (that doesn't completely conceal the logos and colour) and "MR" decals, I can find some way of making them fit aesthetically and even run them with actual MR vans and wagons. I have my eye on a few Slaters kits! The fact I'm running certain freight because I want to rather than need to for variety/complete accuracy has changed how I view that aspect of modelling.
• This brings back a "fun" element I could blend with my main planned layouts in some way or another (that's a slightly different discussion).

 

From this, I started looking at switching layouts and picturing each siding as a goods shed or warehouse drop-off point for various types of domestic and industrial goods, giving my private owner and MR wagons purpose, with the opportunity for some if these vans to move across sidings as each area would be owned by separate private distributors. I've drawn inspiration from Castle Wharf Yard by Richard Peake as you can see from the upper right corner especially (Plan 9 from Peco's compendium of track plans) and track/crossing arrangements from other plans in that book, and the Closet Switching District from Iain Rice's book on shelf layouts. This is the most recent revision I've come up with:

 

 

This is OO, so measures about 3.2x1.6m. Midland Railway serves the basis of the scenery, locos and at least half of the freight stock I'm using. It's not meant to accurately depict a MR goods yard down to the last detail, but key characteristics of MR freight operations can be considered. The main rake for breaking down will be about 14-16 short wagons long. As I only plan on running one large-ish loco (Bachmann 4F which will be rebranded and slightly detailed as a Midland 3835 Class), the rest is served either by 0-6-0 shunters or small locos. 

 

Final note: I purchased a black Marklin 0-8-0 DB steam loco and I have my eyes on a 0-6-0 (due to their body proportions, I've called them the "DB chonks"). As there's no way to converting them to two-rail AND I want to keep them after drawing inspiration from modellers who have run HO stock on their British layouts and made it work, I've settled for creating an extra 3-rail section that's powered separately and insulated from the rest of the network, but still connected so wagons can be transferred. Originally, the "scene transfer" was going to be situated where I've placed the cassette as per Peake's plan, but now it's the large blue warehouse. I've always wanted it to be a distinct, separately-owned sub-network of its own that still serves a part of the bigger layout.

 

Thanks for looking/reading!

 

- Kim

Edited September 11, 2020 by GarrettTheThief

[TonyMay]

I find it difficult to identify any 

3 hours ago, GarrettTheThief said:

Hi all,

 

I've spent a lot of time putting this together and frankly, it needs picking apart by people who are familiar with Midland Railway freight operations and/or shunting operations in general. In fact, I welcome all criticisms and suggestions, especially when it comes to the arrangement of scenery and key structures.

 

But before I get to that, here's a bit of background for anyone curious:

 

• Despite my desire to accurately model the East Midlands region from late 1986 to 2003 for nostalgia, I also started taking an interest in the Midland Railway period. Just because. I mean, just LOOK at those beautiful crimson locos.
• My primary focus and interest has been passenger stock, partly to feed my nostalgia, and more recently due to constraints on my time and space which limits the number of projects I can line up. Or so I thought, until the MR period caught my attention and I saw that as an opportunity to pilot/develop my skills before focusing on the more modern-era stuff, which will be a more serious endeavour.
• Off that, I've acquired a number of Griff coal wagons (which I plan on running through my planned layouts full/empty from/toward the general Nuneaton/London direction), and some garish private owner stock. This actually offers me a creative outlet! By applying creative weathering (that doesn't completely conceal the logos and colour) and "MR" decals, I can find some way of making them fit aesthetically and even run them with actual MR vans and wagons. I have my eye on a few Slaters kits! The fact I'm running certain freight because I want to rather than need to for variety/complete accuracy has changed how I view that aspect of modelling.
• This brings back a "fun" element I could blend with my main planned layouts in some way or another (that's a slightly different discussion).

 

From this, I started looking at switching layouts and picturing each siding as a goods shed or warehouse drop-off point for various types of domestic and industrial goods, giving my private owner and MR wagons purpose, with the opportunity for some if these vans to move across sidings as each area would be owned by separate private distributors. I've drawn inspiration from Castle Wharf Yard by Richard Peake as you can see from the upper right corner especially (Plan 9 from Peco's compendium of track plans) and track/crossing arrangements from other plans in that book, and the Closet Switching District from Iain Rice's book on shelf layouts. This is the most recent revision I've come up with:

 

 

This is OO, so measures about 3.2x1.6m. Midland Railway serves the basis of the scenery, locos and at least half of the freight stock I'm using. It's not meant to accurately depict a MR goods yard down to the last detail, but key characteristics of MR freight operations can be considered. The main rake for breaking down will be about 14-16 short wagons long. As I only plan on running one large-ish loco (Bachmann 4F which will be rebranded and slightly detailed as a Midland 3835 Class), the rest is served either by 0-6-0 shunters or small locos. 

 

Final note: I purchased a black Marklin 0-8-0 DB steam loco and I have my eyes on a 0-6-0 (due to their body proportions, I've called them the "DB chonks"). As there's no way to converting them to two-rail AND I want to keep them after drawing inspiration from modellers who have run HO stock on their British layouts and made it work, I've settled for creating an extra 3-rail section that's powered separately and insulated from the rest of the network, but still connected so wagons can be transferred. Originally, the "scene transfer" was going to be situated where I've placed the cassette as per Peake's plan, but now it's the large blue warehouse. I've always wanted it to be a distinct, separately-owned sub-network of its own that still serves a part of the bigger layout.

 

Thanks for looking/reading!

 

- Kim

 

I'd question whether this even remotely comes close to representing any sort of real world railway let alone key aspects of Midland freight operations. 

[Schooner]

1 hour ago, TonyMay said:

I'd question...

Perhaps you could share what you question, for why, and maybe suggest an answer or two? Then Kim could benefit from the useful feedback and we all might learn a little something

 

@GarrettTheThief, lots of interesting stuff there...partly because there's so much going on! I know nothing of Midland practice I'm afraid, but have got a thing for shunting layouts. Something I've found really helpful for understanding real-world practice is to look not just at model trackplans, but real ones too. Given your intended place and period, you might find the NLS map collection of use to find examples of the sort of thing you'd like to represent.

 

As you seem fairly clear on the stock you'd like to run, perhaps try to find places where you can see how the Midland managed it for real. Then work out how to model the real thing. It should be possible to rationalise your layout to some extent without losing any operating value but boosting the feeling of authenticity that, if I understand you correctly, would add to your enjoyment of the layout.

 

All the best, looking forward to seeing it all develop

 

Schooner 

Edited September 11, 2020 by Schooner
Spellink

[Chimer]

Without being quite as direct as Tony (!), I can't see where you are going to park a 14-16 wagon train, which is around 5 feet long I think, or how you are going to "break it down" by moving wagons into the various sidings.  Assuming it sits in one of the two parallel roads above your "unloading/cattle truck" label, and is shunted from the left hand side, the shunting engine is going to have to run round (a very long way round) each cut of wagons and use the cassette as a headshunt to put them almost anywhere, and also run round any wagons extracted from the various sidings to make up an outgoing train.  Whilst it would certainly make for an interesting shunting puzzle, I can't imagine the MR would have designed anything quite so inefficient.  Not having a direct route from the coal/ash/water facilities to the turntable also seems rather strange.  But it may be I'm missing something .......

[GarrettTheThief]

1 hour ago, Schooner said:

Perhaps you could share what you question, for why, and maybe suggest an answer or two? Then Kim could benefit from the useful feedback and we all might learn a little something

 

@GarrettTheThief, lots of interesting stuff there...partly because there's so much going on! I know nothing of Midland practice I'm afraid, but have got a thing for shunting layouts. Something I've found really helpful for understanding real-world practice is to look not just at model trackplans, but real ones too. Given your intended place and period, you might find the NLS map collection of use to find examples of the sort of thing you'd like to represent.

 

As you seem fairly clear on the stock you'd like to run, perhaps try to find places where you can see how the Midland managed it for real. Then work out how to model the real thing. It should be possible to rationalise your layout to some extent without losing any operating value but boosting the feeling of authenticity that, if I understand you correctly, would add to your enjoyment of the layout.

 

All the best, looking forward to seeing it all develop

 

Schooner 

 

It's a valid observation, though you're right that it doesn't tell me much! No offense taken from Tony's post, though.

 

I think you've highlighted something that might end up being a serious shortfall of the layout; too much with too many sidings randomly added, giving me a complicated switching puzzle where I've tried to give each siding some purpose. You're right that I want that balance of authenticity and operating potential (one reason why I've not considered modelling many through stations). I've clearly worked the wrong way round here: patching together multiple track plans and scenery (which itself is a fun and interesting exercise) and trying to make MR themes fit in some way or another, instead of looking into the real thing first.

 

I've sourced a couple of Midland Record issues that appear to extensively cover the basics of goods operations, so I'll start there when I have a tenner to spare. I'll then see where I can incorporate some of the interesting track elements if I feel I can do so without frivolously adding spurs for the sake of it.

 

22 minutes ago, Chimer said:

Without being quite as direct as Tony (!), I can't see where you are going to park a 14-16 wagon train, which is around 5 feet long I think, or how you are going to "break it down" by moving wagons into the various sidings.  Assuming it sits in one of the two parallel roads above your "unloading/cattle truck" label, and is shunted from the left hand side, the shunting engine is going to have to run round (a very long way round) each cut of wagons and use the cassette as a headshunt to put them almost anywhere, and also run round any wagons extracted from the various sidings to make up an outgoing train.  Whilst it would certainly make for an interesting shunting puzzle, I can't imagine the MR would have designed anything quite so inefficient.  Not having a direct route from the coal/ash/water facilities to the turntable also seems rather strange.  But it may be I'm missing something .......

 

This is what happens when you quickly read through a track plan book that details operations and don't fully internalize them, which can happen when you're keen to build, but you fall into that tunnel-like focus and end up forgetting the basics... but that's why we need a second pair of eyes, I guess!

 

Thanks for your feedback so far!

[MR Chuffer]

1 hour ago, Chimer said:

I can't see where you are going to park a 14-16 wagon train, which is around 5 feet long I think,

Are we talking OO gauge, if so, my train of 12 Slater MR D299 open wagons (66,000 odd built in MR days so very common) plus MR brake van and a Bachmann MR 4F 0-6-0 with Bachmann 36-025 couplings comes to 125cm max. Hardly 5 feet even with a few more wagons - I work on 7.6cm per 9 foot wheelbase Slaters wagon when planning siding lengths.

 

Plus I know East Midlands MR pretty well if you want real locations to start from.

[GarrettTheThief]

15 hours ago, MR Chuffer said:

Are we talking OO gauge, if so, my train of 12 Slater MR D299 open wagons (66,000 odd built in MR days so very common) plus MR brake van and a Bachmann MR 4F 0-6-0 with Bachmann 36-025 couplings comes to 125cm max. Hardly 5 feet even with a few more wagons - I work on 7.6cm per 9 foot wheelbase Slaters wagon when planning siding lengths.

 

Plus I know East Midlands MR pretty well if you want real locations to start from.

 

Thank you for this, that's very useful to know. And real locations so I have a starting point for research would be helpful

Edited September 12, 2020 by GarrettTheThief

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Right, where shall I begin?

 

Your plan looks all over the place. Now this is an observation, not a criticism, as many goods yards (including the MR) had layouts that indeed were all over the place. However, they had to be workable in some fashion or other too.

 

Now am I reading your plan correctly that your have loco facilities in two areas on the left? Water/coal with a running line between, then water/ash. On the right is a "mini TT" - is this for locos or is it a wagon turntable? Then various goods facilities scattered around?

You mention getting inspiration from other layouts. Fair enough, but better to get some inspiration from the real thing. 

First thing is what do you want from your layout? Is it a loco depot, a goods yard or a bit of both?

[MR Chuffer]

20 hours ago, GarrettTheThief said:

mean, just LOOK at those beautiful crimson locos.

One other thing I thought of overnight, you mention a MR 3835 Class, a Fowler 4F, the Bachmann model, these were built in 1911 at which time all goods locos were turned out in black.

 

In fact, you need to go back to before 1907-1908 when goods locos were still crimson lake, and for which there are no RTR models.

 

On the other hand, the forthcoming Bachmann 0-4-4T 1P is the pretty red RTR loco we're all craving for.

 

Have a look at the London Road Models website for MR crimson lake kits if you're up to it.

Edited September 12, 2020 by MR Chuffer

[GarrettTheThief]

13 hours ago, Peter Kazmierczak said:

Right, where shall I begin?

 

Your plan looks all over the place. Now this is an observation, not a criticism, as many goods yards (including the MR) had layouts that indeed were all over the place. However, they had to be workable in some fashion or other too.

 

Now am I reading your plan correctly that your have loco facilities in two areas on the left? Water/coal with a running line between, then water/ash. On the right is a "mini TT" - is this for locos or is it a wagon turntable? Then various goods facilities scattered around?

You mention getting inspiration from other layouts. Fair enough, but better to get some inspiration from the real thing. 

First thing is what do you want from your layout? Is it a loco depot, a goods yard or a bit of both?

Thanks for your feedback. “All over the place” is very apt, but my main concern was workability and it increasingly looks like this plan doesn’t have it. You’re correct on your second point. I wanted to have various servicing points with the sheds on the right hand side for overnight storage. The mini-turntable is intended primarily for the shunting locos.

 

I want a bit of both but primarily a goods yard with numerous drop-off points and switching puzzle elements, with *some* loco servicing facilities.

 

4 hours ago, MR Chuffer said:

One other thing I thought of overnight, you mention a MR 3835 Class, a Fowler 4F, the Bachmann model, these were built in 1911 at which time all goods locos were turned out in black.

 

In fact, you need to go back to before 1907-1908 when goods locos were still crimson lake, and for which there are no RTR models.

 

On the other hand, the forthcoming Bachmann 0-4-4T 1P is the pretty red RTR loco we're all craving for.

 

Have a look at the London Road Models website for MR crimson lake kits if you're up to it.

I forgot about that, but my 4F/3835 class might be the only black loco I plan I having, and the only freight-only loco too. I went with it primarily because of RTR availability and quality (snagging a Bachman model at a fair price) with no need to repaint, only rebrand and maybe re-detail in parts if necessary.

 

I also have a somewhat “recent” Hornby 3F I plan on repainting, and a couple of small 0-6-0 locos (one of those is a Jinty) where I’m applying a mix of scratch building and repainting to get them looking like two classes of shunters.

 

I've recently been working on an old Hornby Midland Compound model. I don’t expect it will ever come close to accurately representing the prototype or hold a candle to the Bachmann model (which was out of my hands due to rarity AND price), but by using bits from a static scale model of the same loco and sourcing similar brass parts off eBay to replace the broken components, I’ve been working on improving it. The model itself has various issues I don’t have the skill to fix, but I can try to disguise with creative weathering. One precarious feature is the thick yellow lining! Ultimately, this project is intended more as a pilot for crafting methods, so I can deal with a less than stellar result, and I’m very happy with how it’s turned out so far. I’d happily start another thread showing what I’ve done so far and welcome criticism/tips.

I’m aware of the London Road models web site and have my eye on a couple of kits, especially the Spinner! The only thing putting me off is the need to source wheels and a motor, unless I decide to double-head.
 

I have my eyes on that Bachmann model and want to run it a couple of Slaters suburban coaches. I’d willingly forgo a month of adding to my savings to buy this!

 

Anyway, digression over.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

I'd get rid of the loco servicing facilities, except for possibly a water tank/water column. No need for a turntable; by their very nature shunting engines work in either direction so don't need turning.

 

Have a look at the OS 25" maps on the NLS website for ideas about the layouts of goods yards.

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=5&lat=58.1026&lon=-4.7031&layers=1&right=BingHyb

[GarrettTheThief]

So this is what I got from searching for broad terms "goods/freight/marshalling yard" before I spotted Chaddesdon Sidings. Link/picture dump to follow!

 

Present day:

 

Late 1800s:

 

Through googling, I've found other sketches of the area surrounding the marshalling yard:

https://neilfergylee.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/map.png

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0510/1197/products/50-SW-1901-Derbyshire.jpg?v=1571438954

https://static.wixstatic.com/media/67d4ca_8976d25247ff4cb9a99b3cc843c32ad7~mv2.png/v1/fill/w_630,h_376,al_c,q_85,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01/67d4ca_8976d25247ff4cb9a99b3cc843c32ad7~mv2.webp

 

A couple of photos, one from a thread here I'm following posted by Peter:

https://www.rcts.org.uk/features/mysteryphotos/show.htm?img=Y-16-11&serial=10819&page=676

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/80912-east-midlands-miscellany/&do=findComment&comment=1430523

 

And finally, a short excerpt by Neil Johnson:

https://dbcb9f20-8def-42ec-9ead-9e393451acd0.filesusr.com/ugd/b73fb0_7be686d0f63f4095aa0a5952842f810e.pdf

 

Given there are few photos of the actual site, getting the scenery down would be difficult, though it may be possible given to make it generic-looking, allowing me to run stock from a variety of periods before 1969. By condensing the track layout, I could also model the junction to the left (though I'd have to take a huge modeller's license when running anything post 1969 given the Derby North-South Junction loop no longer exists, meaning I'd have to pretend Cranmer Road doesn't exist!).

 

Finally, here's a diagram of Derby North showing the pointwork for the tracks to both the North and South junction:

https://signalbox.org/~SBdiagram.php?id= 130

 

This could make for an interesting area to model, and hugely relevant to my focus. The issue is then finding a home for completely unrelated stock I can't fit in my other "plans" (read: dreams!).

 

EDIT: I've also gone and purchased the two Midland Record issues for insight into freight operations. This will be fun!

Edited September 12, 2020 by GarrettTheThief

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Chadd Sidings was my old neck of the woods. It was a very large marshalling yard in its heyday. If you want something more manageable, look for a more general goods yard in a town. Derby's was at St Mary's, with separate cattle docks by Derby Jn and a goods wharf at London Road.

 

[Chimer]

Realism check - you've got roughly 10' x 5' to play with, hopefully with access from all sides as you don't seem to be planning on using an operating well.  Derby Junction as per your signalbox diagram would fill that space completely in 00, as would the points fan at either end of Chaddesden sidings.  You've got to scale your expectations down quite a lot ....... 4-track main lines are not going to fit.  But a largish goods yard attached to a small station on a single track line, serviced by trip freights only in one direction, might.  The Marklin stuff could maybe be crowbarred in via an exchange siding.  And it would look better using Streamline pointwork not Set-track, if that's an option.  Whether you could make it look "Midland", I'll leave to others ......

 

Good luck!

[Aire Head]

Does the layout have to be put away after use or can it be a permanent feature of the room?

 

[GarrettTheThief]

2 hours ago, Aire Head said:

Does the layout have to be put away after use or can it be a permanent feature of the room?

 

 

It will likely be a permanent feature, but I'd like to construct them in such a way they can still be transported (if possible). For now, I'm piloting smaller transportable layouts. Anything bigger is practically a draft.

 

@Peter and @Chimer Thank you. It's clear I'd have to do an imitation (and I don't know if I'd have use for all those loops anyway!). At the moment, these are still draft plans and available space depends on my future permanent/owned residence. I'm continuing my research and considering other locations too. Appreciate all the feedback.

[Aire Head]

7 minutes ago, GarrettTheThief said:

It will likely be a permanent feature, but I'd like to construct them in such a way they can still be transported (if possible). For now, I'm piloting smaller transportable layouts. Anything bigger is practically a draft.

 

I ask because you will gain a significant amount of space by building the railway around the edge of the room rather than having a board in the middle.

 

Building in sections will make it easy to transport.

[GarrettTheThief]

18 minutes ago, Aire Head said:

 

I ask because you will gain a significant amount of space by building the railway around the edge of the room rather than having a board in the middle.

 

Building in sections will make it easy to transport.

 

Agreed. I imagine the final results will end up being shelf layouts of sorts, and my plans would absolutely require I build them around the edge of the room. Usually, the off-scene loops and tracks leading to them aren't intended to be fixed in my plans as they have go account for that, they just provide a picture if how they'd look and give some idea of space.

[GarrettTheThief]

I... have an idea.

 

To start with, it works much better than my complicated and haphazard switching puzzle. It also lets me sort stock from two goods trains, blast passenger trains through, incorporate hump shunting and even let me crowbar in an exchange section for the Marklin stock, which works nicely with a planned riverside micro-layout of mine (and there happens to be a river in the area I want to model). It will be a hugely condensed version of the prototype with numerous “extraneous” sidings omitted and I’ve yet to come up with a plan, let alone one that fits in reasonable space.

 

Sorry to keep people in suspense but before I go into further detail, does anyone know of copyright on the Midland Record? I feel it would help my outline of operations if I could share part of a sketch taken from issue 7. If I can’t do that, I’ll draw my own diagram.

Edited September 18, 2020 by GarrettTheThief

[Compound2632]

For real Midland goods atmosphere, have a browse of the Midland section of Warwickshire Railways. But if you already have a run of Midland Record...

 

The Midland had rather standardised ways of laying out goods stations, whether city centre goods depots or wayside stations - get that right and it'll shout "Midland" without a speck of red insight!

 

If it's Wellingborough you're thinking of, that's certainly on the grand scale - most of the siding space being for the remarshalling of coal trains. But it's all standard Midland procedures writ large, so scaleable down, I suppose.

 

Copyright for illustrations in Midland Record will generally have been retained by the copyright holder; otherwise copyright remains with Wild Swan and the authors. 

 

 

Edited September 23, 2020 by Compound2632

[GarrettTheThief]

On 23/09/2020 at 22:09, Compound2632 said:

For real Midland goods atmosphere, have a browse of the Midland section of Warwickshire Railways. But if you already have a run of Midland Record...

 

If it's Wellingborough you're thinking of, that's certainly on the grand scale - most of the siding space being for the remarshalling of coal trains. But it's all standard Midland procedures writ large, so scaleable down, I suppose.

 

I've got Warwickshire Railways open in a tab, thanks for pointing me there. My immediate focus is interview prep and packing to move, but having a muse is definitely on my to do list.

 

And you're correct: the Wellingborough Up Yard especially so I can use Finedon Bridge as a break, and it looks much easier to trim down. Hump shunting looks like so much fun, and easy to automate on even an analog layout. The operations as detailed in Midland Record 7 are what I'd enjoy from a goods layout.

 

I plan on reducing the reception sidings from 6 to 3 and their length too (no longer than fifteen wagons as that's likely the standard length I'm modelling; anything longer can be split, which also reflects actual operations). The marshalling sidings will be cut down from 19 to about 7-8. That last siding will be the Henley siding, which is where I crowbar in the continental stuff (a perfect analog to how that part of the yard operated). Unsure about the Neilson and ironworks sidings but they may be useful to have, I just want to avoid over-complicating the plan!

 

I'm also taking a huge artistic license by running modern stock on the passenger lines too; not alongside MR stock! It's a license because I imagine the marshalling sidings and signal boxes would have been long gone by the 1980s.