muddys-blues Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 (edited) Good evening, here is an enquiry as what seems to be the holy grail for 7mm modellers, the elusive China Clay wagon, I am looking to possibly scratch build or kit bash a rake of these in the future, so I am sourcing information in advance. Has anybody built any of these from scratch off drawings etc ? or has anybody kit bashed any Slaters, or Parkside kits to make up a reasonable imitation ? Your input or thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance Craig Edited September 11, 2020 by muddys-blues to spell my own name correctly !!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted September 11, 2020 Share Posted September 11, 2020 Hi young Craig, I've had both the Skytrex Clay Hoods and ordinary one, and they seemed a good model to me, but I'm no kit or scratch builder mate. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sf315 Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 9 hours ago, muddys-blues said: Good evening, here is an enquiry as what seems to be the holy grail for 7mm modellers, the elusive China Clay wagon, I am looking to possibly scratch build or kit bash a rake of these in the future, so I am sourcing information in advance. Has anybody built any of these from scratch off drawings etc ? or has anybody kit bashed any Slaters, or Parkside kits to make up a reasonable imitation ? Your input or thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance Craig Not the china clay wagon your after but Parkside/PECO do a GW open that i made into a OWV wagon that was in use for the clayliner train that ran to the potteries in the 70s. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted September 12, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 12, 2020 (edited) See Michael Hughes 7mm thread. He is doing a kit which is nearly ready. Its got to be easier to scratch build than convert but if you are going to try, arguably the WEP brass GWR china clay might be marginally easier to start from than the ex Cooper Craft or Minerva 5 plank as you wouldn't have to remove all the moulded strapping before replacing it. You'd get the right buffers and a few other parts but you'd still replace more than you use. Edited September 12, 2020 by Hal Nail 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 17 hours ago, Andrew P said: Hi young Craig, I've had both the Skytrex Clay Hoods and ordinary one, and they seemed a good model to me, but I'm no kit or scratch builder mate. Unfortunately that is a clayliner conversion of a standard open merchandise wagon. https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/prenatclayliner https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brclayliner I hope Craig is aware of the drawing we published in Bartlett et al. BR Wagons. This is the wagon he is asking about https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brclayhood They have an end door, and the planking of the floor is along the wagon - which is very unusual, and they are only 16ft. 6 in. over headstocks, like a standard mineral wagon. Paul 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 I can remember the open conversations in the rakes of wagons at Ashford for scrapping in the early 80’s. I particularly remember one had an S prefix. Still had clay on them. Wish I’d taken more pictures. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted September 12, 2020 Share Posted September 12, 2020 40 minutes ago, The Bigbee Line said: I can remember the open conversations in the rakes of wagons at Ashford for scrapping in the early 80’s. I particularly remember one had an S prefix. Still had clay on them. Wish I’d taken more pictures. David Larkin published a list of the converted wagons in 'Wagons of the Final Years of British Railways' This covers only the wagons that received roller bearings, which came from all the 'Big 4', as well as BR itself. I noted a few wagons in clay traffic that retained oil axleboxes:- B495151, B491856, B481705 and B485107. Doubtless there were others. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted September 12, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 12, 2020 2 hours ago, hmrspaul said: I hope Craig is aware of the drawing we published in Bartlett et al. BR Wagons. This is the wagon he is asking about https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brclayhood They have an end door, and the planking of the floor is along the wagon - which is very unusual, and they are only 16ft. 6 in. over headstocks, like a standard mineral wagon. Paul This is the one J&M Hughes are producing. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Dougal Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 I built a clay hood recently from the Slaters kit. I added a triangular hood out of wire. It looks ok to me and goes with my Skytrex hooded wagons. It may not be 100% prototypical, but it is close. Dougal 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike hughes Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 Hopefully pic will appear very soon of what I’ve done Michael 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium rab Posted September 13, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 13, 2020 Can I intrude with a related but slightly off topic question. Were the hood wagons the flat sheeted ones with a bar added, or were they different wagons Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LBRJ Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 5 minutes ago, rab said: Can I intrude with a related but slightly off topic question. Were the hood wagons the flat sheeted ones with a bar added, or were they different wagons The hoods were added to the UCV fleet in 1973/4 to keep the clay dry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 4 hours ago, LBRJ said: The hoods were added to the UCV fleet in 1973/4 to keep the clay dry. They were different wagons. The ones with the flat sheets were 5-plank opens, coming from all the Big 4 companies and BR. They didn't have sheet rails, so you had to be careful when unsheeting if you didn't want to be drenched. The wagons were TOPS-coded 'OWV'. The UCV were purpose-built end-tipping wagons, on a shorter underframe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LBRJ Posted September 13, 2020 Share Posted September 13, 2020 I know that. I must have read the question completely wrong though I thought it was referring to when the hoods were first used on the local clay flows. Ill read better or keep my fingers still next time Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddys-blues Posted September 14, 2020 Author Share Posted September 14, 2020 10 hours ago, Fat Controller said: They were different wagons. The ones with the flat sheets were 5-plank opens, coming from all the Big 4 companies and BR. They didn't have sheet rails, so you had to be careful when unsheeting if you didn't want to be drenched. The wagons were TOPS-coded 'OWV'. The UCV were purpose-built end-tipping wagons, on a shorter underframe. Where the UCV’s flat hoods originally ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted September 14, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 14, 2020 (edited) 29 minutes ago, muddys-blues said: Where the UCV’s flat hoods originally ? Yes, although interestingly the clay is pretty lopsided in this one. There are better photos but I dont have my reference books to hand. https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/416442296784597601/ Built by BR in the 50s to replace the very similar looking GWR version (diagram 013), they were flat sheeted until converted in diesel days. Incidentally the original flat sheet only covered the top couple of planks (or in practice most of one side and hardly any of the other) so you cant get away with not modelling the strapping! Edited September 14, 2020 by Hal Nail 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted September 14, 2020 Share Posted September 14, 2020 52 minutes ago, muddys-blues said: Where the UCV’s flat hoods originally ? Yes, and some remained so, I believe. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddys-blues Posted September 14, 2020 Author Share Posted September 14, 2020 Thanks Gents, it seems to be getting nearer regarding info, does anyone on the main differences between the original 013 and the later built 1/051 ? I know the wheels are different, spokes on the 013, and three holes disc on the later 1/051 for starters thanks in advance Craig Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted September 14, 2020 Share Posted September 14, 2020 5 hours ago, Fat Controller said: Yes, and some remained so, I believe. There are at least 4 in my collection, all at Plympton which are sheeted directly over the load. Weren't clayhoods for Ball clay? As to O13 - they had Churchward brake rigging so rather different, but I thought we had already looked at them. Or is that in a parallel universe as this has been discussed on another forum at the same time. Paul 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddys-blues Posted September 14, 2020 Author Share Posted September 14, 2020 2 hours ago, hmrspaul said: There are at least 4 in my collection, all at Plympton which are sheeted directly over the load. Weren't clayhoods for Ball clay? As to O13 - they had Churchward brake rigging so rather different, but I thought we had already looked at them. Or is that in a parallel universe as this has been discussed on another forum at the same time. Paul Hi Paul, thanks, yes is it on another forum, WT, but some members aren’t on there, and vice versa Best regards Craig Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted September 14, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 14, 2020 (edited) 16 hours ago, hmrspaul said: As to O13 - they had Churchward brake rigging so rather different, but I thought we had already looked at them. Or is that in a parallel universe as this has been discussed on another forum at the same time. Paul Theres another thread on here somewhere discussing exactly the same thing as well! The strapping on the 1/051 is also different to the 013, BR v GWR axle guards etc. Edited September 15, 2020 by Hal Nail 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddys-blues Posted September 14, 2020 Author Share Posted September 14, 2020 4 hours ago, hmrspaul said: There are at least 4 in my collection, all at Plympton which are sheeted directly over the load. Weren't clayhoods for Ball clay? As to O13 - they had Churchward brake rigging so rather different, but I thought we had already looked at them. Or is that in a parallel universe as this has been discussed on another forum at the same time. Paul Thanks Paul, your site is invaluable to many of us modellers, i'll be purchasing a few prints to aid the building of some of the UCV's as flat hoods "1970 modeller", quick question regarding the type of brake rigging on the 1/051's what make was fitted to them ? Thanks in advance Craig. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted September 14, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 14, 2020 (edited) https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/137515-mike-hughes-workbench/page/6/#comments Latest post shows the 1/051. Edited September 14, 2020 by Hal Nail Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted September 14, 2020 Share Posted September 14, 2020 7 hours ago, hmrspaul said: There are at least 4 in my collection, all at Plympton which are sheeted directly over the load. Weren't clayhoods for Ball clay? As to O13 - they had Churchward brake rigging so rather different, but I thought we had already looked at them. Or is that in a parallel universe as this has been discussed on another forum at the same time. Paul Clayhoods carried both Ball Clay and China Clay, mainly for shipping from Fowey. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 16 hours ago, Fat Controller said: Clayhoods carried both Ball Clay and China Clay, mainly for shipping from Fowey. Do you know why the loads shouldn't be mixed - some wagons are clearly written For Ball Clay only (which I suspect are all clayhoods) and others are China clay only which are a mix of clayhoods and not. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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