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China Clay - UCV diagram 1/051 wagons -information sort


muddys-blues
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Good evening, here is an enquiry as what seems to be the holy grail for 7mm modellers, the elusive China Clay wagon, I am looking to possibly scratch build or kit bash a rake of these in the future, so I am sourcing information in advance.

 

Has anybody built any of these from scratch off drawings etc ? or has anybody kit bashed any Slaters, or Parkside kits to make up a reasonable imitation ?

 

Your input or thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks in advance

Craig

Edited by muddys-blues
to spell my own name correctly !!!
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9 hours ago, muddys-blues said:

Good evening, here is an enquiry as what seems to be the holy grail for 7mm modellers, the elusive China Clay wagon, I am looking to possibly scratch build or kit bash a rake of these in the future, so I am sourcing information in advance.

 

Has anybody built any of these from scratch off drawings etc ? or has anybody kit bashed any Slaters, or Parkside kits to make up a reasonable imitation ?

 

Your input or thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks in advance

Craig

Not the china clay wagon your after but Parkside/PECO do a GW open that i made into a OWV wagon that was in use for the clayliner train that ran to the potteries in the 70s. 

 

IMG_4591.JPG

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See Michael Hughes 7mm thread. He is doing a kit which is nearly ready.

 

Its got to be easier to scratch build than convert but if you are going to try, arguably the WEP brass GWR china clay might be marginally easier to start from than the ex Cooper Craft or Minerva 5 plank as you wouldn't have to remove all the moulded strapping before replacing it. You'd get the right buffers and a few other parts but you'd still replace more than you use.

Edited by Hal Nail
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17 hours ago, Andrew P said:

Hi young Craig, I've had both the Skytrex Clay Hoods and ordinary one, and they seemed a good model to me, but I'm no kit or scratch builder mate.

Unfortunately that is a clayliner conversion of a standard open merchandise wagon. https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/prenatclayliner  https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brclayliner

 

I hope Craig is aware of the drawing we published in Bartlett et al. BR Wagons. This is the wagon he is asking about  https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brclayhood  They have an end door, and the planking of the floor is along the wagon - which is very unusual, and they are only 16ft. 6 in. over headstocks, like a standard mineral wagon. 

 

Paul

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40 minutes ago, The Bigbee Line said:

I can remember the open conversations in the rakes of wagons at Ashford for scrapping in the early 80’s. I particularly remember one had an S prefix. Still had clay on them. Wish I’d taken more pictures. 

David Larkin published a list of the converted wagons in 'Wagons of the Final Years of British Railways' This covers only the wagons that received roller bearings, which came from all the 'Big 4', as well as BR itself. I noted a few wagons in clay traffic that retained oil axleboxes:- B495151, B491856, B481705 and B485107. Doubtless there were others.

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2 hours ago, hmrspaul said:

I hope Craig is aware of the drawing we published in Bartlett et al. BR Wagons. This is the wagon he is asking about  https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brclayhood  They have an end door, and the planking of the floor is along the wagon - which is very unusual, and they are only 16ft. 6 in. over headstocks, like a standard mineral wagon. 

 

Paul

This is the one J&M Hughes are producing.

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5 minutes ago, rab said:

Can I intrude with a related but slightly off topic question.

 

Were the hood wagons the flat sheeted ones with a bar added,

or were they different wagons 

 

The hoods were added to the UCV fleet in 1973/4 to keep the clay dry.

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4 hours ago, LBRJ said:

 

The hoods were added to the UCV fleet in 1973/4 to keep the clay dry.

They were different wagons. The ones with the flat sheets were 5-plank opens, coming from all the Big 4 companies and BR. They didn't have sheet rails, so you had to be careful when unsheeting if you didn't want to be drenched. The wagons were TOPS-coded 'OWV'.

The UCV were purpose-built end-tipping wagons, on a shorter underframe.

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10 hours ago, Fat Controller said:

They were different wagons. The ones with the flat sheets were 5-plank opens, coming from all the Big 4 companies and BR. They didn't have sheet rails, so you had to be careful when unsheeting if you didn't want to be drenched. The wagons were TOPS-coded 'OWV'.

The UCV were purpose-built end-tipping wagons, on a shorter underframe.

Where the UCV’s flat hoods originally ? 

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29 minutes ago, muddys-blues said:

Where the UCV’s flat hoods originally ? 

Yes, although interestingly the clay is pretty lopsided in this one. There are better photos but I dont have my reference books to hand.

 

https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/416442296784597601/

 

Built by BR in the 50s to replace the very similar looking GWR version (diagram 013), they were flat sheeted until converted in diesel days.

 

Incidentally the original flat sheet only covered the top couple of planks (or in practice most of one side and hardly any of the other) so you cant get away with not modelling the strapping!

Edited by Hal Nail
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Thanks Gents, it seems to be getting nearer regarding info, does anyone on the main differences between the original 013 and the later built 1/051 ?

 

I know the wheels are different, spokes on the 013, and three holes disc on the later 1/051 for starters

 

thanks in advance

Craig 

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5 hours ago, Fat Controller said:

Yes, and some remained so, I believe. 

There are at least 4 in my collection, all at Plympton which are sheeted directly over the load. Weren't clayhoods for Ball clay? 

 

As to O13 - they had Churchward brake rigging so rather different, but I thought we had already looked at them. Or is that in a parallel universe as this has been discussed on another forum at the same time. :o

Paul

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2 hours ago, hmrspaul said:

There are at least 4 in my collection, all at Plympton which are sheeted directly over the load. Weren't clayhoods for Ball clay? 

 

As to O13 - they had Churchward brake rigging so rather different, but I thought we had already looked at them. Or is that in a parallel universe as this has been discussed on another forum at the same time. :o

Paul

Hi Paul, thanks, yes is it on another forum, WT, but some members aren’t on there, and vice versa ;)

 

Best regards

Craig 

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16 hours ago, hmrspaul said:

As to O13 - they had Churchward brake rigging so rather different, but I thought we had already looked at them. Or is that in a parallel universe as this has been discussed on another forum at the same time. :o

Paul

Theres another thread on here somewhere discussing exactly the same thing as well!

 

The strapping on the 1/051 is also different to the 013, BR v GWR axle guards etc.

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4 hours ago, hmrspaul said:

There are at least 4 in my collection, all at Plympton which are sheeted directly over the load. Weren't clayhoods for Ball clay? 

 

As to O13 - they had Churchward brake rigging so rather different, but I thought we had already looked at them. Or is that in a parallel universe as this has been discussed on another forum at the same time. :o

Paul

 

Thanks Paul, your site is invaluable to many of us modellers, i'll be purchasing a few prints to aid the building of some of the UCV's as flat hoods "1970 modeller", quick question regarding the type of brake rigging on the 1/051's what make was fitted to them ?

 

Thanks in advance

Craig.

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7 hours ago, hmrspaul said:

There are at least 4 in my collection, all at Plympton which are sheeted directly over the load. Weren't clayhoods for Ball clay? 

 

As to O13 - they had Churchward brake rigging so rather different, but I thought we had already looked at them. Or is that in a parallel universe as this has been discussed on another forum at the same time. :o

Paul

Clayhoods carried both Ball Clay and China Clay, mainly for shipping from Fowey.

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16 hours ago, Fat Controller said:

Clayhoods carried both Ball Clay and China Clay, mainly for shipping from Fowey.

Do you know why the loads shouldn't be mixed - some wagons are clearly written For Ball Clay only (which I suspect are all clayhoods) and others are China clay only which are a mix of clayhoods and not. 

 

Paul

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