China Clay - UCV diagram 1/051 wagons -information sort

[jbg]

They are different types of material. China clay is usually dry and powdery, ball clay usually wet lumps of clay. If you used the same wagon for the different types I suspect they would contaminate each other so that the load would be useless which wouldn’t be very good as they are used for very different products!

 

The GWR wagons were built around 1910 with DC2 brakegear. This was replaced in the 1940’s/50’s and generally became independent either side brakes but varied depending on the conversion. GWR Wagon Loads in Service (OPC) and GWR Wagons both have photos showing the conversions. The latter also has some details of the build. These wagons were generally tarpaulin coveted although some had sheet rails fitted. 
 

The BR wagons were built from 1954 in several batches. The first 100 were unfitted again with independent either side brakes (see references above) and the later ones were built fitted with standard Morton brakes. BR Wagons Vol 1 (OPC) contains a useful drawing. Many of the BR wagons were fitted with hoods in 1973/74 and were operated in separate pools with China clay and ball clay wagons marked and used accordingly. Not all of these wagons received hoods. 
 

There is often confusion with the open wagons used on the Clayliner traffic in BR days - this was the daily train to the Potteries. This was formed predominately from upgraded 5 plank opens, mostly BR built but several pre-nationalisation ones were used as well. These mainly had roller bearing axle boxes but did not have hoods. 
 

I’m afraid I can’t help with 7mm wagon conversions. In 4mm I use Ratio bodies and Rumney Chassis for the BR ones and mainly Parkside bodies and assorted chassis for the GW ones. 
 

Hope this helps a little....

 

Jeremy

Edited September 15, 2020 by jbg

[Hal Nail]

59 minutes ago, jbg said:

Hope this helps a little....

 

Jeremy

Really useful summary!

Edited September 15, 2020 by Hal Nail

[hmrspaul]

20 minutes ago, jbg said:

 

The BR wagons were built from 1954 in several batches. The first 100 were unfitted again with independent either side brakes (see references above) and the later ones were built fitted with standard Morton brakes. BR Wagons Vol 1 (OPC) contains a useful drawing.

 

Jeremy

Thanks, I suspected it was the wet/dry problem

As mentioned earlier  on my website it is the firs 300 [not 100] which were unfitted originally, unless the BR booklet for conversion is mistaken. Not many photos of these wagons in their early brief days. They'll have been converted by 1960 if not before. And they do appear to have been done thoroughly unlike some of the other wagons which were listed for vacuum braking and some escaped to remain unfitted. 

 

Dave Larkin managed to photograph plenty in his neck of the woods - Stroud etc. so the end tipper wagons weren't restricted to Cornwall. 

 

Trev Manns drawing of our measurements is reproduced at 7mm In Model Railways vol 6 part 7 

 

Paul

[Hal Nail]

Would fitted 1/051s have worked with ex GWR unfitted toads?

 

I thought I'd seen photos at Bodmin General and on that branch c1960 behind praries but wondering now if these would have been the unfitted ones, which i didnt know about until today.

 

Difficult to tell BR type from earlier GWR in black and white at any sort of distance (especially if covered) but the BR ones had straighter side door bumpers and solid tie bars.

Edited September 15, 2020 by Hal Nail

[Enterprisingwestern]

3 hours ago, hmrspaul said:

Do you know why the loads shouldn't be mixed - some wagons are clearly written For Ball Clay only (which I suspect are all clayhoods) and others are China clay only which are a mix of clayhoods and not. 

 

Paul

 

Ball clay is like pieces of rock/pebbles whereas China clay is more sludge like, I would imagine it is kept separate to stop crosscontamination.

 

Mike.

[Fat Controller]

6 hours ago, hmrspaul said:

Do you know why the loads shouldn't be mixed - some wagons are clearly written For Ball Clay only (which I suspect are all clayhoods) and others are China clay only which are a mix of clayhoods and not. 

 

Paul

The clays had very different qualities. Ball clay was, and is still, used in the ceramic industry for the 'body of things like toilets, cisterns and so on, as well as earthenware. China clay is used as a basis for glazes in ceramics, and as a component in fine china, but it is primarily

 

is used as a filler and surface-coating in paper manufacturing. Ball clay was found outside Cornwall, in North Devon (Torrington), near Heathfield (Newton Abbot) and Furzebrook, near Wareham. 

[Hal Nail]

I dont have my books to hand at the moment but I'm pretty sure the photos I've seen on the Torrington branch (ball clay) in diesel days were generally standard BR opens with corrugated ends, rather than the specific china clay "hoods".

[spamcan61]

4 hours ago, Hal Nail said:

I dont have my books to hand at the moment but I'm pretty sure the photos I've seen on the Torrington branch (ball clay) in diesel days were generally standard BR opens with corrugated ends, rather than the specific china clay "hoods".

Yes I'm pretty sure I've seen those too; given China Clay as conveyed in 1/051 or whatever was a  powdery substance that needed to be kept dry, whereas Ball Clay is sticky lumps (technical term) then I would say the wagons used for each type of  clay would have to be dedicated or you'd end up in a mess.