Electrofrog Point Stalling

[Happy Hippo]

I may have missed it in this thread, and apologies if I have but no one seems to have mentioned carrying out continuity and voltage tests using a meter.

[kevinlms]

41 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

I may have missed it in this thread, and apologies if I have but no one seems to have mentioned carrying out continuity and voltage tests using a meter.

You're right, but it seems the doubters have taken over and taking the view that's how it is and nothing to be done. 

[Philou]

Shhhh Mr H - you're making suggestions that are far too sensible.

 

I think meter or no meter, there is a problem with some of the electrofrogs out there and a workaround has been found - for those that can do a tad of soldering. Not ideal and a nuisance having just bought something new and then to have to do some bodgery. Seemingly though, at the moment what to do? Send it back for a replacement and risk getting another dud? Send it back and get a refund? Or, do a workaround that could well be better than the factory original?

 

I'd go for the last option myself.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[ejstubbs]

3 hours ago, Happy Hippo said:

I may have missed it in this thread, and apologies if I have but no one seems to have mentioned carrying out continuity and voltage tests using a meter.

 

Yes, you did miss it: it was suggested by bartram108 on the day the OP first posted:

 

 

[ejstubbs]

2 hours ago, kevinlms said:

You're right

 

No, he's not - see above.

 

2 hours ago, kevinlms said:

it seems the doubters have taken over and taking the view that's how it is and nothing to be done.

 

Plenty of constructive suggestions have been made and discussed.  Why do you choose to be so negative?

[ejstubbs]

3 hours ago, The Johnster said:

a refund, which most businesses regard as a last resort and offer all sorts of 'credit notes' as alternatives to ensure the money is kept 'in house' is useless

 

If the product is not fit for purpose, the retailer has to offer a refund - they can't weasel out with a credit note.

[The Johnster]

But they might.  It is possible (perhaps probable) that they could argue that the product is fit for purpose if it is wired in the 'switchable frog' mode, which they claim is more reliable than my 'blade contact' method anyway.   It probably is but would incur the expense of a point motor which I do not wish to be involved with.  I have no intention of allowing my time to be taken with a pointless dispute with Peco to prove a messroom lawyer point, even if it is correct, or to 'test the water' for others with similar problems.  

 

I am happy with my turnout the way it is now, thanks; the new colliery loco spur is up and running and I have not had to delay it's use while waiting for responses which may or may not have been satisfactory from Peco.  The soldering took less than 5 minutes. If I ever buy another electrofrog, which is doubtful, I'll solder across the gap as I am now distrustful of the wires.  

 

I've emailed Peco and advised them of the situation, as they may want to examine their stock, and will record the response in the Peco area of Products and Trade; this done, the matter will be closed so far as I'm concerned.  This, IMHO, is the correct course of action in this instance.  Sorry, no soap opera describing my ongoing saga trying to get another turnout or my money back from Peco.

 

You want soap opera, type 'Johnster' and 'Bachmann 94xx' into the search facility...

Edited September 20, 2020 by The Johnster

[kevinlms]

4 hours ago, ejstubbs said:

 

No, he's not - see above.

 

 

Plenty of constructive suggestions have been made and discussed.  Why do you choose to be so negative?

Because an assumption has been made that as some have been found to be faulty, it is a waste getting it replaced, as the replacement will be just the same.

Isn't that equally negative?

[Junctionmad]

My experience is I don’t rely on the peco wires and i solder on my own 

 

I would always recommend bonding the switch blades to the stock rail and switching the frog as the optimum approach, but as has been said the points will work out of the box also. 

[DCB]

The older points didn't have these rail breaks or link wires.  Maybe seek out the old type unless you want to snip the wires.   Personally I have used the old type on DC and had no problems as in my test loco with pick up on only one axle creeps over all the electrofrog, live frog points at pretty much a crawl without any electrical issues.  It does however stall when one wheel on the non pick up axle drops into rail gaps and lifts the diagonally opposite pick up wheel off the track and stalls on the centre plastic blob on unmodified Peco Long crossings, (I modified them to eliminate it) and  it may well stall on unmodified short ones but I don't have any in use. It even creeps over Live Frogged Triang Super 4 points (axle drop excepted).

Edited September 22, 2020 by DavidCBroad

[JC]

On 20/09/2020 at 15:35, kevinlms said:

Roxley Models are saying that, because its within the scope of what is expected usage of a Peco point. See my other post on this topic above.

 

Hmmm yes I hadn't considered that. Perhaps it's different in the world of railway modelling but in every other retail industry, at least in my experience, if you tamper with a product, irrespective of whether you're trying to make it work, if you then try and argue for a refund/replacement, the retailer won't do that.

[JC]

On 20/09/2020 at 16:20, Happy Hippo said:

I may have missed it in this thread, and apologies if I have but no one seems to have mentioned carrying out continuity and voltage tests using a meter.

 

It was suggested and it's what I did.

 

On 20/09/2020 at 17:03, kevinlms said:

You're right, but it seems the doubters have taken over and taking the view that's how it is and nothing to be done. 

 

 

On 20/09/2020 at 18:01, Philou said:

Shhhh Mr H - you're making suggestions that are far too sensible.

 

I think meter or no meter, there is a problem with some of the electrofrogs out there and a workaround has been found - for those that can do a tad of soldering. Not ideal and a nuisance having just bought something new and then to have to do some bodgery. Seemingly though, at the moment what to do? Send it back for a replacement and risk getting another dud? Send it back and get a refund? Or, do a workaround that could well be better than the factory original?

 

I'd go for the last option myself.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

 

Think you're both being a bit harsh there. I'm a novice. I made the decision, after buying Hornby set track 6 months ago, to replace with flexitrack and EF points. I read around the wiring issue for EF and despite a few reservations given my limited electrical knowledge, decided to go ahead. 

 

I think it is entirely reasonable in this day and age, with something so simple and proven as a point, to expect it to come out of the box without fault. Not being aware that modifying points was a standard practice and not being an electrics buff or having any experience with soldering meant I went back to the retailer first up. Once they said they were happy for me to solder then I had a go and it sorted the issue.

[kevinlms]

10 minutes ago, JC said:

 

Hmmm yes I hadn't considered that. Perhaps it's different in the world of railway modelling but in every other retail industry, at least in my experience, if you tamper with a product, irrespective of whether you're trying to make it work, if you then try and argue for a refund/replacement, the retailer won't do that.

Loads of items you're expected to do something with it.

 

Straight off the top of the head, a can of paint from the hardware shop. It's sold on the basis that the purchaser is going to stick a paint brush or roller in it and spread the contents over a surface. Just because you've opened the can, doesn't mean the warranty is void. Although the retailer would have a point, if you took the lid off the can of paint, then left the can in the sun for 3 days!

 

Same applies for a pre-mixed packet of cake mix. No one expects you to eat it as is!

 

Anyone is entitled to take back a product for repair/replacement/refund. Fobbing off or given a credit note, is not on* and while I have no experience of it, I doubt whether Peco would be happy, if one of their retailers tried that!

 

* A credit note might be acceptable, if waiting for new stock to arrive in a few days and the customer agrees to pop back.

[JC]

8 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

Loads of items you're expected to do something with it.

 

Straight off the top of the head, a can of paint from the hardware shop. It's sold on the basis that the purchaser is going to stick a paint brush or roller in it and spread the contents over a surface. Just because you've opened the can, doesn't mean the warranty is void. Although the retailer would have a point, if you took the lid off the can of paint, then left the can in the sun for 3 days!

 

Same applies for a pre-mixed packet of cake mix. No one expects you to eat it as is!

 

Anyone is entitled to take back a product for repair/replacement/refund. Fobbing off or given a credit note, is not on* and while I have no experience of it, I doubt whether Peco would be happy, if one of their retailers tried that!

 

* A credit note might be acceptable, if waiting for new stock to arrive in a few days and the customer agrees to pop back.

 

???? Something such as paint doesn't work or not work. Clearly I'm talking about something required to function . As in, power into a point, power through the point, power out of the point.

[DCB]

4 hours ago, JC said:

 

???? Something such as paint doesn't work or not work. Clearly I'm talking about something required to function . As in, power into a point, power through the point, power out of the point.

 

Bad analogy, I bought some spray paint and the colour on the cap was wrong., well it was right Tahiti Blue 93 but the paint in the can was Tahiti Blue which is not the same colour. It was the second or third coat and the colour mis match was not immediately obvious, but it certainly was when it dried. Took ages to rub it down again...