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Hornby Midland 4P 4-4-0 Compound Upgrade


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Now I'm starting to settle into the new place, I think I'll bravely post what I've done so far. Bear in mind this is the first major serious endeavour I've taken, and is a pilot for testing and developing my basic crafting and scratch-building skills. It's also my first proper weathering job done from a narrow selection of three powders (black, slate grey, burnt umber) and some white paint and I've tried to closely follow some tutorials.

 

The rails on the end of the tender broke off and you can see where I've superglued custom rails. It's an imperfect job, but I doubt I could do much to spoil the Hornby tender anyway. It's amazing what a bit of subtle weathering can do for the blemishes and imperfections. I've also got a side-by-side comparison photo with the Amercom tender I butchered. I'm thinking of selling the whole Hornby tender as a spare in favour of a Fowler kit, as we've established it's correct for what I'm modelling.

 

Class 1000 Take #1 (1).jpg

Class 1000 Take #1 (2).jpg

Class 1000 Take #1 (3).jpg

Class 1000 Take #1 (0).jpg

 

The front portion (what's the correct terminology for that?) is what I'm more concerned about. With the above in mind, feel free to pick apart and let me know what parts I'd need to swap out/buy and what I should redo. I can forgo the incorrect proportions if I get a decent chassis, the weathering is more on point and all the other components are correct. Sadly, I don't know what to do about the chipped front corner.

 

Class 1000 Take #1 (4).jpg

Class 1000 Take #1 (5).jpg

Class 1000 Take #1 (6).jpg

Class 1000 Take #1 (7).jpg

 

Thanks for taking the time to read/look, and thanks to ianLMS for letting me post my work in his thread.

Edited by GarrettTheThief
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Hi,

For the chipped front corner file it back so there is a straight edge while trying to make a little lip from the underframe. This is so you can then sit a small piece of plasticard of the correct depth on to the corner and glue it in place. Then once the glue has set file the piece of plasticard to the correct shape. If you have any small gaps use some filler to hide them. Then paint it. I hope that I have been clear enough in what I have said.

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I've got one of those Amercom Compounds and a Hornby Compound somewhere "in storage" and am watching this thread with interest.

 

@GarrettTheThief I am convinced that your Amercom Compound has already received quite a lot of attention such as:

  • Moulded handrails and boiler pipework near the smokebox replaced (very neatly) with separate components.
  • At least a partial repaint
  • Is sitting on a Hornby tender-drive Compound loco chassis (I presume the wheels rotate - which they definitely do not on the Amercom ones).

Amercom pros: is copied from a Bachmann Compound, so fundamentally more accurate than Hornby (I presume...)

Amercon cons: mine is very poorly assembled, lining is a mess; a surprising amount of plastic underneath needs removing to fit a proper mechanism, all Bachmann's separate detail (handrails etc) is moulded on in the Amercom static model.

 

For the sake of sharing ideas, my current future intention with my ones are to put the Amercom loco body on a modern (loco-drive) Hornby Schools / Compound / Hunt / D49 chassis (with the appropriate Compound cylinders and valve gear obviously) and use the Amercon tender pretty much as is but with "proper" wheels.  Caveat: I know that technically the Amercom tender is of a type that wasn't paired with the Midland Compounds in service but has been paired with engine 1000 in preservation (I think that is mentioned further up this thread)

 

The compromise is that correcting the Amercom body (poorly glued components, 100% moulded handrails etc) is probably more effort than doing what ianLMS is doing to the Hornby body (but should be fundamentally more accurate in the end?).

 

The best answer may be fettling the Hornby Compound loco body, Hornby (motorised) loco chassis and Amercon tender (or a Fowler tender from a Mainline/Bachmann Jubilee/Crab/Scot if going for one of the later builds).  Which is why I'm eagerly awaiting ianLMS finishing his Hornby Compound to see how good it looks..!

 

-------

EDIT

-------

I've just read the first page of this thread again and see GarrettTheThief is actually responsible for the improvements to his Amercom model - so nice work..!!!  Especially the lining and the separate handrails (both are nice and straight!!)

 

Edited by plasticbasher
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On 15/10/2020 at 12:43, GarrettTheThief said:

Now I'm starting to settle into the new place, I think I'll bravely post what I've done so far. Bear in mind this is the first major serious endeavour I've taken, and is a pilot for testing and developing my basic crafting and scratch-building skills. It's also my first proper weathering job done from a narrow selection of three powders (black, slate grey, burnt umber) and some white paint and I've tried to closely follow some tutorials.

 

The rails on the end of the tender broke off and you can see where I've superglued custom rails. It's an imperfect job, but I doubt I could do much to spoil the Hornby tender anyway. It's amazing what a bit of subtle weathering can do for the blemishes and imperfections. I've also got a side-by-side comparison photo with the Amercom tender I butchered. I'm thinking of selling the whole Hornby tender as a spare in favour of a Fowler kit, as we've established it's correct for what I'm modelling.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The front portion (what's the correct terminology for that?) is what I'm more concerned about. With the above in mind, feel free to pick apart and let me know what parts I'd need to swap out/buy and what I should redo. I can forgo the incorrect proportions if I get a decent chassis, the weathering is more on point and all the other components are correct. Sadly, I don't know what to do about the chipped front corner.

 

 

 

 

Class 1000 Take #1 (7).jpg

 

Thanks for taking the time to read/look, and thanks to ianLMS for letting me post my work in his thread.

Looks good apart from the ballet dancing fireman, my pet hate.   A Hornby driver sawn from his seat sitting on the box above the left hand splasher with a Dapol trackside workman standing behind the reversing wheel would be more convincing as Compounds (alledgedly) used almost no coal and the fireman could have a nice sit down and admire the scenery.

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Bit of a delay as Wizard are having issues getting re stocked by Markits. Apparently they arent the only ones. I hope this is a temporary situation as Markits supply excellent products and i would hate to see them dissappear! 

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On 15/10/2020 at 12:43, GarrettTheThief said:

 

Class 1000 Take #1 (7).jpg

Loving this thread and it's really coming together well. 

 When you sort out the tender have you considered a fall plate between the loco and tender I add them to all my tender locos and its easy to build a simple working one and it really brings the loco up to another level.

 

 Here's one on one of my loco builds also like the Compound a 4-4-0 and then some pictures of the parts and building one for an 0-6-0 loco.

 

20201019_110843.jpg

20201019_110816.jpg

20201019_110716.jpg

20201019_110745.jpg

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17 hours ago, plasticbasher said:

I've got one of those Amercom Compounds and a Hornby Compound somewhere "in storage" and am watching this thread with interest.

 

@GarrettTheThief I am convinced that your Amercom Compound has already received quite a lot of attention such as:

  • Moulded handrails and boiler pipework near the smokebox replaced (very neatly) with separate components.
  • At least a partial repaint
  • Is sitting on a Hornby tender-drive Compound loco chassis (I presume the wheels rotate - which they definitely do not on the Amercom ones).

Amercom pros: is copied from a Bachmann Compound, so fundamentally more accurate than Hornby (I presume...)

Amercon cons: mine is very poorly assembled, lining is a mess; a surprising amount of plastic underneath needs removing to fit a proper mechanism, all Bachmann's separate detail (handrails etc) is moulded on in the Amercom static model.

 

For the sake of sharing ideas, my current future intention with my ones are to put the Amercom loco body on a modern (loco-drive) Hornby Schools / Compound / Hunt / D49 chassis (with the appropriate Compound cylinders and valve gear obviously) and use the Amercon tender pretty much as is but with "proper" wheels.  Caveat: I know that technically the Amercom tender is of a type that wasn't paired with the Midland Compounds in service but has been paired with engine 1000 in preservation (I think that is mentioned further up this thread)

 

The compromise is that correcting the Amercom body (poorly glued components, 100% moulded handrails etc) is probably more effort than doing what ianLMS is doing to the Hornby body (but should be fundamentally more accurate in the end?).

 

The best answer may be fettling the Hornby Compound loco body, Hornby (motorised) loco chassis and Amercon tender (or a Fowler tender from a Mainline/Bachmann Jubilee/Crab/Scot if going for one of the later builds).  Which is why I'm eagerly awaiting ianLMS finishing his Hornby Compound to see how good it looks..!

 

-------

EDIT

-------

I've just read the first page of this thread again and see GarrettTheThief is actually responsible for the improvements to his Amercom model - so nice work..!!!  Especially the lining and the separate handrails (both are nice and straight!!)

 

Hi Plasticbasher.

If you look in the other magazines section of this web site there is a whole thread on the Amercom loco's and what people have done to get them running. It is well over 300 pages long.

Here it is.

 

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On 15/10/2020 at 12:43, GarrettTheThief said:

Now I'm starting to settle into the new place, I think I'll bravely post what I've done so far. Bear in mind this is the first major serious endeavour I've taken, and is a pilot for testing and developing my basic crafting and scratch-building skills. It's also my first proper weathering job done from a narrow selection of three powders (black, slate grey, burnt umber) and some white paint and I've tried to closely follow some tutorials.

 

The rails on the end of the tender broke off and you can see where I've superglued custom rails. It's an imperfect job, but I doubt I could do much to spoil the Hornby tender anyway. It's amazing what a bit of subtle weathering can do for the blemishes and imperfections. I've also got a side-by-side comparison photo with the Amercom tender I butchered. I'm thinking of selling the whole Hornby tender as a spare in favour of a Fowler kit, as we've established it's correct for what I'm modelling.

 

Class 1000 Take #1 (1).jpg

Class 1000 Take #1 (2).jpg

Class 1000 Take #1 (3).jpg

Class 1000 Take #1 (0).jpg

 

The front portion (what's the correct terminology for that?) is what I'm more concerned about. With the above in mind, feel free to pick apart and let me know what parts I'd need to swap out/buy and what I should redo. I can forgo the incorrect proportions if I get a decent chassis, the weathering is more on point and all the other components are correct. Sadly, I don't know what to do about the chipped front corner.

 

Class 1000 Take #1 (4).jpg

Class 1000 Take #1 (5).jpg

Class 1000 Take #1 (6).jpg

Class 1000 Take #1 (7).jpg

 

Thanks for taking the time to read/look, and thanks to ianLMS for letting me post my work in his thread.

No problem you sharing your very nice modelling in here. Looking very good there!!!!

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On 19/10/2020 at 18:42, ianLMS said:

No problem you sharing your very nice modelling in here. Looking very good there!!!!

 

Thanks again and for the feedback! It's reassuring to know I'm on the right track (no pun intended). I'm confident enough to take the next steps: sell the Hornby tender, buy a Fowler tender kit, and then buy a chassis with the motor and gearbox.

 

Oh, and as per @cypherman's very helpful post, fix the chipped corners. I also need to buy a proper lining pen as I'm using a stupidly thick gold marker and exercising my steady hand :shout:

 

Speaking of the tender:

 

On 19/10/2020 at 15:48, Londontram said:

Loving this thread and it's really coming together well. 

 When you sort out the tender have you considered a fall plate between the loco and tender I add them to all my tender locos and its easy to build a simple working one and it really brings the loco up to another level.

 

 Here's one on one of my loco builds also like the Compound a 4-4-0 and then some pictures of the parts and building one for an 0-6-0 loco.

 

20201019_110843.jpg

20201019_110816.jpg

20201019_110716.jpg

20201019_110745.jpg

 

This is something that crossed the back of my mind a few times and would consider adding. Where did you get your step-plate from?

 

On 19/10/2020 at 00:29, plasticbasher said:

I've got one of those Amercom Compounds and a Hornby Compound somewhere "in storage" and am watching this thread with interest.

 

@GarrettTheThief I am convinced that your Amercom Compound has already received quite a lot of attention such as:

  • Moulded handrails and boiler pipework near the smokebox replaced (very neatly) with separate components.
  • At least a partial repaint
  • Is sitting on a Hornby tender-drive Compound loco chassis (I presume the wheels rotate - which they definitely do not on the Amercom ones).

Amercom pros: is copied from a Bachmann Compound, so fundamentally more accurate than Hornby (I presume...)

Amercon cons: mine is very poorly assembled, lining is a mess; a surprising amount of plastic underneath needs removing to fit a proper mechanism, all Bachmann's separate detail (handrails etc) is moulded on in the Amercom static model.

 

For the sake of sharing ideas, my current future intention with my ones are to put the Amercom loco body on a modern (loco-drive) Hornby Schools / Compound / Hunt / D49 chassis (with the appropriate Compound cylinders and valve gear obviously) and use the Amercon tender pretty much as is but with "proper" wheels.  Caveat: I know that technically the Amercom tender is of a type that wasn't paired with the Midland Compounds in service but has been paired with engine 1000 in preservation (I think that is mentioned further up this thread)

 

The compromise is that correcting the Amercom body (poorly glued components, 100% moulded handrails etc) is probably more effort than doing what ianLMS is doing to the Hornby body (but should be fundamentally more accurate in the end?).

 

The best answer may be fettling the Hornby Compound loco body, Hornby (motorised) loco chassis and Amercon tender (or a Fowler tender from a Mainline/Bachmann Jubilee/Crab/Scot if going for one of the later builds).  Which is why I'm eagerly awaiting ianLMS finishing his Hornby Compound to see how good it looks..!

 

-------

EDIT

-------

I've just read the first page of this thread again and see GarrettTheThief is actually responsible for the improvements to his Amercom model - so nice work..!!!  Especially the lining and the separate handrails (both are nice and straight!!)

 

 

Thank you, thank you! Though that is actually a Hornby body with bits chopped off the Amercom model, which has become a host of sorts for various parts now.

 

I pitched the idea of making an Amercom body a running model but I took note of the very cons you mentioned and I would agree that replacing the moulded components is more work and I feel it's been easier converting the Hornby body. I'm glad I don't have to create the custom side rails, props to @ianLMS for doing that so neatly!

 

I'll take SOME credit for the lining though - the reason it looks better is because with careful painting of crimson, I made them look thinner, corrected overspill, and then added some more lining myself. Though some parts of the Hornby body have incorrect proportions, fixing the lining and subtly weathering the edges makes a significant difference.

 

Your plans for the Amercom tender sound good and in line with one of my earlier ideas too, before I ended up butchering mine (thankfully to no loss for me).

 

On 19/10/2020 at 00:50, DavidCBroad said:

Looks good apart from the ballet dancing fireman, my pet hate.   A Hornby driver sawn from his seat sitting on the box above the left hand splasher with a Dapol trackside workman standing behind the reversing wheel would be more convincing as Compounds (alledgedly) used almost no coal and the fireman could have a nice sit down and admire the scenery.

 

I got a light laugh out of that, but you're correct! I thought it looked a tad strange, and it was worse before as I cut off the stand, so his toes were even higher up! A judo match with him would end VERY quickly, I'll say that.

 

Edited by GarrettTheThief
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45 minutes ago, GarrettTheThief said:

 

Thanks again and for the feedback! It's reassuring to know I'm on the right track (no pun intended)

 

Speaking of the tender:

This is something that crossed the back of my mind a few times and would consider adding. Where did you get your step-plate from?

I was afraid you might ask me that I got it about three years back but for the life of me can't remember where but it was one of the major suppliers so shouldn't be to hard to track down. It comes as a flat etch each etch big enough to do about 6 fall plates. I start with a paper tenplate to test the tender will still turn with out binding then when happy just cut out the shape with a strong pair if scissors and just bend it into s slight roll with my fingers or over a sutible round former it only needs a slight curve. 

 The center section of tube is soldered to the fall plate and the tabs are soldered to the two outer sections of tube these I can slip into some pre drilled holes/slots under the cab floor but you can adapt this to fit different types of model. 

 A section of brass rod acts as the hinge this you can tack solder to the two outer sections of tube.

 There its that simple.

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Where did you get your step-plate from? - You should be able to get the checker/diamond plate from Brassmasters or Scale-link and trim it to size and then purchase brass tube/rod from a variety of sources. I usually end up getting mine off Ebay now the exhibitions have stopped.

 

Replacing handrails etc isn't too difficult and if you pick up a dirt cheap body, its worth practicing with some brass rod and off-cuts. You can use proper brass handrail knobs but I find them a bit chunky so use tiny split pins instead. 

 

As with most modifications its practice and building confidence. Doing it to a brand new £200 RTR model isn't something I would want to do, but anything second-hand and under £40 is definitely game!

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On 19/10/2020 at 15:48, Londontram said:

 When you sort out the tender have you considered a fall plate between the loco and tender .....

 

My fall plates are much simpler - simply the fall plate with a length of 0.3mm. wire soldered along the edge that abuts the loco.

 

The wire passes behind the vertical cab handrails and is then bent at right-angles and trimmed off. When blackened / painted, the wire is virtually invisible and the fall plate is removeable.

 

John Isherwood.

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There's many ways of doing it but what ever your method its worth the effort as it makes a massive  difference to the look of the loco.

    It tends to work best if the gap between loco and tender is closed up other wise the fall plate ends up looking like the Forth bridge.

 

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Hi all,

My fall plates are even simpler. I cut the right sized plasticard to the shape I want and glue it in... Job done. I take my hat off to all of you who get their fall plates to work.... :)

Edited by cypherman
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1 hour ago, cypherman said:

Hi all,

My fall plates are even simpler. I cut the right sized plasticard to the shape I want and glue it in... Job done. I take my hat off to all of you who get their fall plates to work.... :)

That's the way mate its your model no one else's you build it how you like Just enjoy your modeling thats all you need to do.

   Steve

 

 Oh and keep posting so we can all carry on enjoying it too.

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I have managed to source a couple of 27mm 6'9" markits wheels and have now fitted the high level gearbox and motor. All seems to run nicely without power and bench tested with controller connected straight to the motor. Painting next before fitting pick ups and dcc chip! 

 

 

20201110_064719.jpg

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Loco now painted, numbered and lined. DCC works great using the live chassis method with the plastic body and the first time i have tried it. Might not be so succesful with a metal body due to shorting issues but will give it a try! Needs varnishing and weathering but will do that once i build/find a suitable Fowler tender.

20201126_085134.jpg

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