Using a ruling pen

[grob1234]

As an addendum to my last post, I have found that 'Klear' is also impervious to white spirit.

[grob1234]

Hello,

 

I have been conducting a few experiments with my Haff 228 ruling pen.

 

What I am trying to establish is:

 

• consistency of line width (comes with practise)
• that the pen actually works correctly
• paint thickness/consistency and brand of paint
• the best surface to line on
• a good way of totally removing an unwanted line from the model without destroying the paint underneath

So, bearing this in mind, I set out some tests. First of all, I used PP Doncaster green, which once cured, I coated in Klear, knowing that Klear is impervious to white spirit, and therefore would mean that when I make a mistake I needn't be fearful in removing the mistake with white spirit.

 

 

Not a fantastic result really. What I found is that although the Klear does produce a very nice gloss finish, it is actually quite brittle. I have taken the sharpness off the tip of the pen with a 3200 wet sanding pad, but even still, the pen cut the Klear a little and I think this clogged the 'nib' and that is why I got the blobby results. All the paint used is Humbrol, which I have tried to get to a relatively standard thick, creamy consistency.

 

Deciding that Klear is perhaps not the best lining surface, my next plan of attack was to try a Tamiya gloss acrylic, which like Klear is pretty much impervious to white spirit. The problem with this is that despite using Tamiya paints for many years, there is no direct comparison for Doncaster Green in their range.

 

 

Enlargement for comparison:

 

 

On the left hand side is lining using 2 different tins of Humbrol gloss white. The lines are not consistent, and it seemed that the paint flow broke up very easily.

 

On the right however is a different paint - Tamiya Gloss Enamel. This paint has a very fine appearance and a very nice consistency - probably thinner than the Humbrol. Towards the bottom, I feel I was starting to achieve the consistency I desire, along with nice fine lines. The pen was set to about 1.5 on the dial, and allows a piece of paper to pass between the tips of the pen.

 

Conclusions

 

• Although Klear is a nice gloss finish, it seems hard to line on.
• The Tamiya acrylic gloss surface was nice to line on, especially with the Tamiya gloss enamel.
• Can I conclude that the pen itself is working ok? (could any experts cast their eyes over my lines please?)
• If the pen is OK, could the Humbrol paint be a little bit too thick? (the newer stuff seems thicker than the old stuff)
• My next experiment will be just a straight gloss enamel base coat and then lining on top
• I will also try Tamiya gloss black and red to see if they are better than Humbrol.

Edited April 5, 2018 by grob1234

[Ian Rathbone]

It is a common myth that white spirit can not be used to remove paint from cured enamel. Use gloss enamel as a base coat (Phoenix Precision are available in gloss but need to be ordered) and use gloss enamel for lining. Test your lining paint with the cocktail stick test. If it runs off the stick it is too thin, if it stays on the stick and doesn't drip off it is too thick. If it drips off but can be retained by twisting the stick it is just right. Set your pen so that you can just pull a piece of printing paper between the blades. Match your speed to the viscosity of the paint. Read 'A Modeller's Handbook of Painting and Lining', (Wild Swan), twice. Unwanted paint can be removed by stroking with a brush that is just damp with white spirit. Forget Kleer.

 

I hope that is clear.

 

Ian R

Edited April 12, 2018 by Ian Rathbone

[Daddyman]

I didn't realise all Precision Paints were available to order in gloss, Ian. Is that what you're saying? I use gloss when I can, but otherwise apply PP "dull" and then when it's dry coat it with Ronseal to gloss it up. 

Edited April 13, 2018 by Daddyman

[Brassey]

I didn't realise all Precision Paints were available to order in gloss, Ian. Is that what you're saying? I use gloss when I can, but otherwise apply PP "dull" and then when it's dry coat it with Ronseal to gloss it up. 

 

I don't think think every single colour is available as gloss just the mainstream ones, for example GWR coach crimson lake is not.  I recently ordered some GWR 1906-1948 green in dull and the tin arrived labelled 'satin'.  Never seen that before from PPP

[Daddyman]

I don't think think every single colour is available as gloss just the mainstream ones, for example GWR coach crimson lake is not.  I recently ordered some GWR 1906-1948 green in dull and the tin arrived labelled 'satin'.  Never seen that before from PPP

They started using the word "dull" maybe 10 (?) years ago. 

[grob1234]

It is a common myth that white spirit can not be used to remove paint from cured enamel. Use gloss enamel as a base coat (Phoenix Precision are available in gloss but need to be ordered) and use gloss enamel for lining. Test your lining paint with the cocktail stick test. If it runs off the stick it is too thin, if it stays on the stick and doesn't drip off it is too thick. If it drips off but can be retained by twisting the stick it is just right. Set your pen so that you can just pull a piece of printing paper between the blades. Match your speed to the viscosity of the paint. Read 'A Modeller's Handbook of Painting and Lining', (Wild Swan), twice. Unwanted paint can be removed by stroking with a brush that is just damp with white spirit. Forget Kleer.

 

I hope that is clear.

 

Ian R

 

All Klear,  clear Ian

 

I have read your book several times, and I'm digesting the information within. Being a relatively seasoned modeler, I'm always looking to discover the best way to do something, and my reticence to simply line over gloss enamel stems simply from not wanting to mess up a nice paint job when I inevitably mess up the lining! 

 

It does however make total sense that enamel will be most happily applied over a nice gloss goat of enamel, and I will bite the bullet and try it (after testing first of course) The main area of concern is the tender and the cab, the rest will be offset lining, which bizarrely I am more comfortable with that using the standard pen.

 

Can you tell from my pictures if you think the pen is OK? I am sure it is, I just need to have the confidence in the tool.

 

Many thanks for your reply,

[70021 Morning Star]

As a professional artist and model maker, my advice is to ditch the ruling pen. Instead, invest some time and effort into learning to use a signwriter's lining brush. It'll give better, more consistent results, and prove easier to use in the end.

 

A signwriter's lining brush has very long soft hairs; around 1.5 to 2 inches!

 

The idea is that these long hairs give a very consistent paint flow when drawing very long fine lines, and (with practice) it's easy to turn a rounded corner. You can't do that with a draughtsman's lining pen. It'll keep running out of paint, leading to restart blotching and alignment issues, as well as being difficult to turn a consistent rounded corner.

 

Bear in mind that the ruling pen was designed for use on softish paper surfaces on a drawing board. It's crucial to maintain contact of the two metal sides of the knib in contact with the item you're transferring paint onto. That's extremely difficult on a hard plastic model, especially when going over moulding details. Whereas a signwriter's lining brush will flow across the hard and uneven surface without difficulty.

 

A professional signwriter uses a rest to guide the hand. A length of dowel with a large blob of blutac on the end works well. The blutac stops it slipping, while the towel guides the brush hand. The workpiece must be securely held, so it can't move around, as well as being presented at a convenient angle.

 

Do you need the dexterity and artists' brush handling skills to use a signwriter's lining brush? No. It's a mechanical skill, like drawing a line with a ruler. It just takes a bit of practice. Then, you must be confident it's all going to work, and it will. Don't hesitate, is the key here. After all, if you falter, you can always quickly wipe off the wet paint with a thinner soaked rag, and do it again. But, as I say, believing in yourself (as you've shown in practicing) is what it's all about.

 

Give a signwriter's lining brush a go. You'll be amazed at your own ability.

 

Have fun,

Rick

Edited June 29, 2018 by 70021 Morning Star

[meil]

As a professional artist and model maker, my advice is to ditch the ruling pen. Instead, invest some time and effort into learning to use a signwriter's lining brush. It'll give better, more consistent results, and prove easier to use in the end.

 

A signwriter's lining brush has very long soft hairs; around 1.5 to 2 inches!

 

The idea is that these long hairs give a very consistent paint flow when drawing very long fine lines, and (with practice) it's easy to turn a rounded corner. You can't do that with a draughtsman's lining pen. It'll keep running out of paint, leading to restart blotching and alignment issues, as well as being difficult to turn a consistent rounded corner.

 

Bear in mind that the ruling pen was designed for use on softish paper surfaces on a drawing board. It's crucial to maintain contact of the two metal sides of the knib in contact with the item you're transferring paint onto. That's extremely difficult on a hard plastic model, especially when going over moulding details. Whereas a signwriter's lining brush will flow across the hard and uneven surface without difficulty.

 

A professional signwriter uses a rest to guide the hand. A length of dowel with a large blob of blutac on the end works well. The blutac stops it slipping, while the towel guides the brush hand. The workpiece must be securely held, so it can't move around, as well as being presented at a convenient angle.

 

Do you need the dexterity and artists' brush handling skills to use a signwriter's lining brush? No. It's a mechanical skill, like drawing a line with a ruler. It just takes a bit of practice. Then, you must be confident it's all going to work, and it will. Don't hesitate, is the key here. After all, if you falter, you can always quickly wipe off the wet paint with a thinner soaked rag, and do it again. But, as I say, believing in yourself (as you've shown in practicing) is what it's all about.

 

Give a signwriter's lining brush a go. You'll be amazed at your own ability.

 

Have fun,

Rick

When I can find a Sign-writers brush that can paint a 0.2mm wide line I'll use it. And a Rigger will be more blotchy than a pen.

Edited June 29, 2018 by meil

[Daddyman]

As a professional artist and model maker, my advice is to ditch the ruling pen. Instead, invest some time and effort into learning to use a signwriter's lining brush. It'll give better, more consistent results, and prove easier to use in the end.

 

A signwriter's lining brush has very long soft hairs; around 1.5 to 2 inches!

 

The idea is that these long hairs give a very consistent paint flow when drawing very long fine lines, and (with practice) it's easy to turn a rounded corner. You can't do that with a draughtsman's lining pen. It'll keep running out of paint, leading to restart blotching and alignment issues, as well as being difficult to turn a consistent rounded corner.

 

Bear in mind that the ruling pen was designed for use on softish paper surfaces on a drawing board. It's crucial to maintain contact of the two metal sides of the knib in contact with the item you're transferring paint onto. That's extremely difficult on a hard plastic model, especially when going over moulding details. Whereas a signwriter's lining brush will flow across the hard and uneven surface without difficulty.

 

A professional signwriter uses a rest to guide the hand. A length of dowel with a large blob of blutac on the end works well. The blutac stops it slipping, while the towel guides the brush hand. The workpiece must be securely held, so it can't move around, as well as being presented at a convenient angle.

 

Do you need the dexterity and artists' brush handling skills to use a signwriter's lining brush? No. It's a mechanical skill, like drawing a line with a ruler. It just takes a bit of practice. Then, you must be confident it's all going to work, and it will. Don't hesitate, is the key here. After all, if you falter, you can always quickly wipe off the wet paint with a thinner soaked rag, and do it again. But, as I say, believing in yourself (as you've shown in practicing) is what it's all about.

 

Give a signwriter's lining brush a go. You'll be amazed at your own ability.

 

Have fun,

Rick

Intriguing. But can you provide photographic evidence of results on a 4mm loco as good as Ian's with a pen? 

[chuffinghell]

Those bring back fun memories of serving my apprenticeship on the drawing board

 

Not as much fun now working on CAD

[gaf2u]

Couple more examples of late - took some poetic licence with both liveries as I fancied a Crimson Lake finish, whereas I believe that the 0-4-4T never carried this, and I'm not 100% that the 2-4-2T did in LMS guise either.

U-Pol rattle can etching primer, followed by Phoenix enamels (airbrushed), lined with a ruling pen (again Phoenix paints) and finally covered by Ronseal satin varnish (airbrushed). Chassis not built as yet for the 0-4-4T - have one in hand but it's on the todo list.

[grob1234]

Here's my example of a lined C1 3283.

 

My first attempt and techniques from the accepted book on the subject.

 

I found the Haff pen I was using too flexible, giving me inconsistent lines (probably due to uneven pressure on my behalf). So I used the much shorter compass pen, and made a suitable handle out of brass. Here are the results, obviously it needs weathering etc, which is what I'm doing now.

 

 

 

[Daddyman]

27 minutes ago, grob1234 said:

Here's my example of a lined C1 3283.

 

My first attempt and techniques from the accepted book on the subject.

 

I found the Haff pen I was using too flexible, giving me inconsistent lines (probably due to uneven pressure on my behalf). So I used the much shorter compass pen, and made a suitable handle out of brass. Here are the results, obviously it needs weathering etc, which is what I'm doing now.

 

 

 

Very nicely done. What green did you use? 

[grob1234]

22 hours ago, Daddyman said:

Very nicely done. What green did you use? 

 

It's Phoenix Precision Paints Doncaster Green.

 

Lovely paint.

[Daddyman]

1 hour ago, grob1234 said:

 

It's Phoenix Precision Paints Doncaster Green.

 

Lovely paint.

I'm surprised how well it photographs - it always looks too like Malachite in the flesh. 

[grob1234]

9 hours ago, Daddyman said:

I'm surprised how well it photographs - it always looks too like Malachite in the flesh. 

 

I suppose a lot of that is personal preferance. I feel it looks about as good as I'm going to get since A) I have never seen a 'true' doncaster 1930's green loco, and B) comparing any colour to a photo is frought with danger.

 

Having said that, next time I paint, I might add a few drops of yellow into the green to perhaps try and represent a slightly sun faded loco. As always, subtlety is the key.

[Ian Rathbone]

What colour did you use for the white lining on the Atlantic?

 

Ian R

[grob1234]

10 hours ago, Ian Rathbone said:

What colour did you use for the white lining on the Atlantic?

 

Ian R

 

Humbrol Gloss white - as per your 'good book'.

 

The tender was done with a normal haff 228 ruling pen. I have found in use (probably my technique rather than anything else) that the blades are flexible, or rather, too flexible, which results in a sometimes slightly inconsistent line. 

 

Following some experiments, I found the much shorter blades of the bow compass to be far more consistent, and that is what I have used to make the decals for the boiler bands, which I feel are much more consistent.

 

I've bought a new pot of gloss 22, though I prefer the older paint in the traditional humbrol tins, as I think the make up of the paint has changed over time. I'tt try the new stuff and see how I get on. I'm also considering a new pen, perhaps the cheaper 629, which looks to have shorter blades and presumably less 'whippy' than the finer 133AK.

 

Any feedback always more than welcome

Edited February 2, 2021 by grob1234

[Ian Rathbone]

The ex GNR Atlantics are not the easiest loco to line out so well done. I generally add black to my white paint, one mustard spoon in a tinlet of white. It sounds a bit drastic but it works well in most scales. Another point is that for any livery that has lining on the wheel tyres go for something other than Romford/Markit. On the insulated wheels it is impossible to get the lining in the right place as the insulation lies exactly where the line should go. I haven’t modelled in 4mm for a long time so I don’t know what driving wheels are available, I’m guessing Ultrascale. 
 

it’s always good to hear that my book has made a difference, so keep up the good work.

 

Ian R

[bluestag]

Would anyone care to comment on the quality of this drawing instrument set that I bought?

 

It is marked Tacro W Germany.

[Chas Levin]

On 04/02/2021 at 00:22, bluestag said:

Would anyone care to comment on the quality of this drawing instrument set that I bought?

 

It is marked Tacro W Germany.

Hello, I'm not qualified to comment but like you I'm experimenting with different drawing instruments. To my pretty inexperienced eye it looks like a good set - I've just bought similar one in fact, a different brand but much the same items. One thing I've learnt from this thread is that pens with shorter blades can be easier to use as longer blades sometimes flex at the wrong moment and it looks like the set you have there has a pen with short blades, plus of course those on the compass pen. Have you been able to try these out since you posted this photo?

[bluestag]

On 11/05/2021 at 12:56, Chas Levin said:

Hello, I'm not qualified to comment but like you I'm experimenting with different drawing instruments. To my pretty inexperienced eye it looks like a good set - I've just bought similar one in fact, a different brand but much the same items. One thing I've learnt from this thread is that pens with shorter blades can be easier to use as longer blades sometimes flex at the wrong moment and it looks like the set you have there has a pen with short blades, plus of course those on the compass pen. Have you been able to try these out since you posted this photo?

No, I have been focusing on clearing out the garage to make room for a layout.   In that process I found another bow pen...

[Chas Levin]

8 hours ago, bluestag said:

No, I have been focusing on clearing out the garage to make room for a layout.   In that process I found another bow pen...

Ha - excellent: I've found that you get very different results from different pens (no surprise there of course), partly their design and partly the condition of the tips I imagine. Hope the one you found works well