RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted December 3, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 3, 2020 11 minutes ago, Phil Bullock said: Which door is that on Mike? Some of the handles certainly are not just rod as you say.... but I have a cunning plan for those! BG. I was more meaning the door bumper Phil as it consists of a base too. For door handles I use the turned brass "square handle" version and file it down to kidney shape with micro files in a pin chuck, and for luggage bay lever handles I file brass wire flat after bending. Mike. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted December 3, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 3, 2020 28 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said: BG. I was more meaning the door bumper Phil as it consists of a base too. For door handles I use the turned brass "square handle" version and file it down to kidney shape with micro files in a pin chuck, and for luggage bay lever handles I file brass wire flat after bending. Mike. Cheers Mike have the turned brass door handles will look at your point.... thank god this isn’t something like a 116 Dmu! You are right about the door bumper of course but 1ft rule applies on Abbotswood! Hope all is ok with you stay safe! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted December 3, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 3, 2020 I suppose that if you want a door bumper with a sort of domed head, a Brass Pin could do the job; maybe a bit too flat though? If the bumper was a bit more rectangular in profile, as some were I think, then file the Brass Pin head to a shape that suits? I may have a play tomorrow. I do like the simplicity of the rod though; the wire I have used up and soldered in place on many of mine, is embarrassing! However, this little discussion has reawakened my coach faffing Mojo. Incidentally, have been using full SP KIts and just sides for conversions, in the Etchmaster range, for a few different Restaurant/Buffet Cars. Never thought of using Mousa; SP are ready shaped and very nice etches indeed. http://www.southernpridemodels.co.uk/ Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted December 3, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 3, 2020 3 hours ago, Mallard60022 said: I suppose that if you want a door bumper with a sort of domed head, a Brass Pin could do the job; maybe a bit too flat though? If the bumper was a bit more rectangular in profile, as some were I think, then file the Brass Pin head to a shape that suits? I may have a play tomorrow. I do like the simplicity of the rod though; the wire I have used up and soldered in place on many of mine, is embarrassing! However, this little discussion has reawakened my coach faffing Mojo. Incidentally, have been using full SP KIts and just sides for conversions, in the Etchmaster range, for a few different Restaurant/Buffet Cars. Never thought of using Mousa; SP are ready shaped and very nice etches indeed. http://www.southernpridemodels.co.uk/ Phil Thanks Phil i need a diagram 25 which Mousa don’t have unfortunately. Other than that given this is my first stab at etched sides I have been well impressed with the RF etched sides. Have tried to contact SP but no response via suggested email route. Looking forwards to finishing it 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted December 4, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 4, 2020 (edited) Pretty sure I have a D25 you can have for postage; I'll need to check if you think you could use it/sides? I usually write to Dave, tell him what I want, give him my email and enclose a cheque with that "No more than...." written in it signed etc for him to complete if he can do the order. I believe he is 'getting on' as we all are and seems to enjoy the old contact methods. I like Mousa sides too but am not so good at rolling them. Have you looked at Worsley Works sides? ATB buddy, A.N. Other Phil Edited December 4, 2020 by Mallard60022 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted December 4, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 4, 2020 27 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said: Pretty sure I have a D25 you can have for postage; I'll need to check if you think you could use it/sides? I usually write to Dave, tell him what I want, give him my email and enclose a cheque with that "No more than...." written in it signed etc for him to complete if he can do the order. I believe he is 'getting on' as we all are and seems to enjoy the old contact methods. I like Mousa sides too but am not so good at rolling them. Have you looked at Worsley Works sides? ATB buddy, A.N. Other Phil That’s a kind offer Phil... PM sent Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted January 31, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 31, 2021 (edited) On 04/12/2020 at 13:53, Mallard60022 said: Pretty sure I have a D25 you can have for postage; I'll need to check if you think you could use it/sides? I usually write to Dave, tell him what I want, give him my email and enclose a cheque with that "No more than...." written in it signed etc for him to complete if he can do the order. I believe he is 'getting on' as we all are and seems to enjoy the old contact methods. I like Mousa sides too but am not so good at rolling them. Have you looked at Worsley Works sides? ATB buddy, A.N. Other Phil So thanks to @Mallard60022 the D25 RKB has progressed. These etched sides are from SP. The underframe is from a Bachmann RU, the sides, roof and interior from an SK. The sides came from Phil with the hinges already fitted ... one job less to do, cheers! Exterior is pretty well completed ready for the sides to go for painting except for the door bumpers. Roof and underfloor detail is complete, the SP underfloor detail looked a bit anaemic so have cannibalised from Bachmann vehicles except for the water tank which has been fabricated from a length of dowel. Is a minefield trying to sort out what goes where, and vehicles have changed with fitting of air brakes and preservation.... Still have the interior to do but happy with progress to date.... RFK partly painted along with new Hornby RB to correct the livery issues. D25 roof and underframe details included in photos for comment in case I have gone wrong....!!! Model is intended to be dual brake dual heat...blue/grey riding on B5 bogies Edited January 31, 2021 by Phil Bullock Photos added 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark54 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 (edited) Phil, as far as I know there were no dual braked RKB. Most had received air brakes by the mid-70s, although a few retained vacuum brakes. Another complication is that the air braked ones seemed to lose the triangular brackets together with their vacuum brakes. The shorter brake cross shaft subsequently only went across the trussing. I also hate to point out that there is an error in that SP etch. The 2 windows on the corridor side adjacent to the bar should be full size, not 3/4 size. You could try and increase the size by careful filing. This John Dedman photo illustrates both these points. https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/48742357262/in/photolist-2km17Xi-edt8bA-fz961W-e7Z3A9-bixhAi-2jDexEW-aqj21n-jiMcBM-2hgcjE3-TZDtmk-dt2ARL-27ziCe3-Av5AQ1-GEgT86-FJJz3L-FJJQ6m-9SMzfd-XhXTqE-nQxoEv-26tKeo1-sDvwkg-nXK442-oyno4v-y18DP7-FyxpJU-Y1AYHr-p8rK1u-yzJACp-oSZqam-2gbecPD-2gbecRY-y1fvjr-vPGbLG-2efMdRo-RspW6g-sAJNCC For roof retail this Robert Carroll photo is useful https://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/4838977272/in/album-72157603653607671/ Edited January 31, 2021 by mark54 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted January 31, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 31, 2021 (edited) 26 minutes ago, mark54 said: Phil, as far as I know there were no dual braked RKB. Most had received air brakes by the mid-70s, although a few retained vacuum brakes. Another complication is that the air braked ones seemed to lose the triangular brackets together with their vacuum brakes. The shorter brake cross shaft subsequently only went across the trussing. I also hate to point out that there is an error in that SP etch. The 2 windows on the corridor side adjacent to the bar should be full size, not 3/4 size. You could try and increase the size by careful filing. This John Dedman photo illustrates both these points. https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/48742357262/in/photolist-2km17Xi-edt8bA-fz961W-e7Z3A9-bixhAi-2jDexEW-aqj21n-jiMcBM-2hgcjE3-TZDtmk-dt2ARL-27ziCe3-Av5AQ1-GEgT86-FJJz3L-FJJQ6m-9SMzfd-XhXTqE-nQxoEv-26tKeo1-sDvwkg-nXK442-oyno4v-y18DP7-FyxpJU-Y1AYHr-p8rK1u-yzJACp-oSZqam-2gbecPD-2gbecRY-y1fvjr-vPGbLG-2efMdRo-RspW6g-sAJNCC For roof retail this Robert Carroll photo is useful https://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/4838977272/in/album-72157603653607671/ Thats great Mark thanks for dropping in. Was working from the 1970 BR passenger fleet rolling stock list and misread it, most are AB but some not listed as such so assumed they were dual. Would they be VB only at that stage ... all on B5 bogies and dual heat? Was aware the V hangers went with ab only so if The non Ab ones are still vb then I am ok. That Robert Carroll link was indeed the one I used .... just missing the bent over pipes, are they tank breathers? As for the windows how can I not have noticed that? The issue would be losing the quarterlights if I file them out but I may have some full size replacements with quarter lights I could use ...Will report back. Its a minefield ... thanks for clarification Edited January 31, 2021 by Phil Bullock 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted January 31, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 31, 2021 Phil, you don't have a spare Bachy Mk1 chassis going I suppose? (doesn't need bogies) Andi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted January 31, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 31, 2021 Just now, Dagworth said: Phil, you don't have a spare Bachy Mk1 chassis going I suppose? (doesn't need bogies) Andi Any preference for coach Andi? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted January 31, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 31, 2021 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Phil Bullock said: Any preference for coach Andi? No, it's to go under a 303 unit. Doesn't even need the corridor ends for that matter, just the flat bit and underframe trussing. Andi Edited January 31, 2021 by Dagworth Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted January 31, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 31, 2021 Good to go, next weekend OK? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted January 31, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 31, 2021 3 minutes ago, Phil Bullock said: Good to go, next weekend OK? No urgency at all, the 303 has sat in a box for the last six months untouched...but thank you and much appreciated. When this is all over and we can go to the pub I owe you a pint. Andi 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
45125 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 3 hours ago, mark54 said: Phil, as far as I know there were no dual braked RKB. Most had received air brakes by the mid-70s, although a few retained vacuum brakes. Another complication is that the air braked ones seemed to lose the triangular brackets together with their vacuum brakes. The shorter brake cross shaft subsequently only went across the trussing. I also hate to point out that there is an error in that SP etch. The 2 windows on the corridor side adjacent to the bar should be full size, not 3/4 size. You could try and increase the size by careful filing. This John Dedman photo illustrates both these points. https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/48742357262/in/photolist-2km17Xi-edt8bA-fz961W-e7Z3A9-bixhAi-2jDexEW-aqj21n-jiMcBM-2hgcjE3-TZDtmk-dt2ARL-27ziCe3-Av5AQ1-GEgT86-FJJz3L-FJJQ6m-9SMzfd-XhXTqE-nQxoEv-26tKeo1-sDvwkg-nXK442-oyno4v-y18DP7-FyxpJU-Y1AYHr-p8rK1u-yzJACp-oSZqam-2gbecPD-2gbecRY-y1fvjr-vPGbLG-2efMdRo-RspW6g-sAJNCC For roof retail this Robert Carroll photo is useful https://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/4838977272/in/album-72157603653607671/ The air braked ones I worked on in the 70s still had the asymmetric vee hangers fitted. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark54 Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 23 hours ago, Phil Bullock said: Thats great Mark thanks for dropping in. Was working from the 1970 BR passenger fleet rolling stock list and misread it, most are AB but some not listed as such so assumed they were dual. Would they be VB only at that stage ... all on B5 bogies and dual heat? Was aware the V hangers went with ab only so if The non Ab ones are still vb then I am ok. That Robert Carroll link was indeed the one I used .... just missing the bent over pipes, are they tank breathers? As for the windows how can I not have noticed that? The issue would be losing the quarterlights if I file them out but I may have some full size replacements with quarter lights I could use ...Will report back. Its a minefield ... thanks for clarification Phil, Looking at the 1970 fleet list, anything not marked AB you can take to be VB. All the LMR's are DH but the ER has some VB SH and the WR one VB SH in 1553 and two VB DH in 1552 & 1500, the latter erroneously not listed. The roof vents positions in your model photo don't look quite right, probably because of the off-centre perspective of the roof in Robert's photo. The 2 dome-ridge vents (one is a scallop dome replacement in Robert's photo) at the bar end should be on the roof centre line as should the circular one near the centre of the coach and the 2 ridge-dome ones over the pantry and staff compartment. The bent over pipes are tank breathers. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted February 1, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 1, 2021 On 31/01/2021 at 20:21, Phil Bullock said: Thats great Mark thanks for dropping in. Was working from the 1970 BR passenger fleet rolling stock list and misread it, most are AB but some not listed as such so assumed they were dual. Would they be VB only at that stage ... all on B5 bogies and dual heat? Was aware the V hangers went with ab only so if The non Ab ones are still vb then I am ok. That Robert Carroll link was indeed the one I used .... just missing the bent over pipes, are they tank breathers? As for the windows how can I not have noticed that? The issue would be losing the quarterlights if I file them out but I may have some full size replacements with quarter lights I could use ...Will report back. Its a minefield ... thanks for clarification Oh sorry about that Phil. I had no idea the etch was incorrect. I'll take it back mate and refund if you wish. Really annoying that. Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted February 1, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 1, 2021 10 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said: Oh sorry about that Phil. I had no idea the etch was incorrect. I'll take it back mate and refund if you wish. Really annoying that. Phil No worries Phil! My bag for not checking - the diagram drawing in Larkin is correct, don’t know how I didn’t notice. Would still have gone ahead , now need to decide whether to grin and bear it or get the files out. Have done a lot of work to roof and chassis so will be completed one way or another.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted February 1, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 1, 2021 21 minutes ago, mark54 said: Phil, Looking at the 1970 fleet list, anything not marked AB you can take to be VB. All the LMR's are DH but the ER has some VB SH and the WR one VB SH in 1553 and two VB DH in 1552 & 1500, the latter erroneously not listed. The roof vents positions in your model photo don't look quite right, probably because of the off-centre perspective of the roof in Robert's photo. The 2 dome-ridge vents (one is a scallop dome replacement in Robert's photo) at the bar end should be on the roof centre line as should the circular one near the centre of the coach and the 2 ridge-dome ones over the pantry and staff compartment. The bent over pipes are tank breathers. Thanks Mark those are an easy fix. Roof yet to have final paint so very timely intervention.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted February 1, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 1, 2021 20 minutes ago, Phil Bullock said: No worries Phil! My bag for not checking - the diagram drawing in Larkin is correct, don’t know how I didn’t notice. Would still have gone ahead , now need to decide whether to grin and bear it or get the files out. Have done a lot of work to roof and chassis so will be completed one way or another.... Just run it wrong side inwards, voila, problem solved! Mike. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted February 1, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 1, 2021 3 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said: Just run it wrong side inwards, voila, problem solved! Mike. You mean the same as our Blue grey gresley then Mike? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted February 1, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 1, 2021 3 minutes ago, Phil Bullock said: You mean the same as our Blue grey gresley then Mike? I didn't like to mention that, it seems to be becoming a habit! Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted February 1, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 1, 2021 If James's blue grey resprays come out ok then that could be the next candidate for rectification..... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted February 3, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 3, 2021 Bitten the bullet and ordered new Comet sides from Wizard to correct the windows issue. Better now than when painted! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Uncoupler Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 Hi Phil, Just to back up Mark's comments, here are two basic Replica bodyshells, with Southern Pride RKB sides grafted on. Work on both stopped when I noticed the bar area window error (corridor side, bottom left), but I managed to stretch the two erroneous 3ft windows, into the 4ft equivalent, which involved using various needle files, and lots of cursing. No sooner had I corrected that problem, when I noticed the two right-hand end 3ft windows (correct size and distance apart), were actually too far to the left, and the pair should be central, between the door and body end, as revealed by drawings and photos in Parkin's Mk1 book. More work! The kitchen side etch seems in order, but having paid good money for a "finescale" product, why do I have to do all this correction work? Most of the SP range are fairly decent, but another problem etch, is/was the FO Diag.72 (the one with the combined centre window/door), some years back old chum Mark 54 had spotted that the spacing of the seating bays/main windows was incorrect (gnashes teeth), it should be the same spacing as a RFO or FO Diag.71. The worst offender that I ever found in Southern Pride's etched Mk1 range (unless now corrected by the manufacturer) is/was the SLC/SLF/SLS sleeping car, where the ones I bought had the wrong shape windows and a very abstract spacing apart. I scrapped all twelve kits and converted the bodies to DMUs! I stopped buying Southern Pride, and switched to using Comet sides, but i'll still finish and correct what I have, at least you can put sticky window frames on these. Cheers, Brian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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