Cattle Wagon - I would like to know more

[MJI]

Just started looking at them, but so confusing, I know about the old Airfix BR cattle wagon kit and the Cooper Craft GWR kit, also the old Mainline LMS model.

 

But what is out there and which ones are decent models?

 

The different railways wagons also looked to be quite similar.

 

Anything which would have been found in West Country in say 1960.

 

 

Edited September 16, 2020 by MJI

[Compound2632]

17 minutes ago, MJI said:

Just started looking at them, but so confusing, I know about the old Airfix BR cattle wagon kit and the Cooper Craft GWR kit, also the old Mainline LMS model.

 

But what is out there and which ones are decent models?

 

The different railways wagons also looked to be quite similar.

 

Anything which would have been found in West Country in say 1960.

 

 

 

Cattle wagons were built to standard internal dimensions. By the 60s - indeed a good deal earlier, they were all nominally "Large" (or "Long"), 18'0" free internal length, but with a movable partition to reduce the free length to "Medium", 15'6", or "Small"/"Short", 13'6". The customer had the right to specify and pay for a wagon of the right length for the number of cattle (or other livestock) being consigned but the railway companies had long since worked out that it was more economical to have one-size-fits-all vehicles than to maintain fleets of wagons of different lengths. 

 

Sorry, not really pertinent to your question but I knew it so I though't I'd bore you with it.

[Steamport Southport]

By the 1960s many of the older ones would be on the way out.

 

Avoid the Mainline/Bachmann LMS cattle wagon if you are being strict. ISTR it's the wrong size.

 

Suitable models.

 

Hornby SR - Two types

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/337844/hornby_r6839_sr_dia_1529_cattle_wagon_in_br_bauxite/stockdetail.aspx

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/431302/hornby_r6840a_sr_dia_1530_cattle_wagon_s52347_in_br_bauxite/stockdetail.aspx

 

Parkside LMS 

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/322421/parkside_models_pc87_lms_cattle_van_dia_1661_plastic_kit/stockdetail.aspx

 

Parkside LNER

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/260585/parkside_models_pc50_lner_cattle_van_dia_39_plastic_kit/stockdetail.aspx

 

 

 

 

Jason

[Compound2632]

Interesting that there isn't a good GWR one listed there, or BR. But by nationalisation, any wagon of any origin was equally likely to turn up anywhere. Steve Banks has an interesting article.

[MJI]

3 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

Interesting that there isn't a good GWR one listed there, or BR. But by nationalisation, any wagon of any origin was equally likely to turn up anywhere. Steve Banks has an interesting article.

 

The GWR and BR look similar. The Airfix kit is not bad at all.

 

I wonder.....

[Compound2632]

16 minutes ago, MJI said:

 

The GWR and BR look similar. The Airfix kit is not bad at all.

 

I wonder.....

 

Steve Banks has another interesting article. I presume that's the Airfix / Dapol kit he's improving?

[Steamport Southport]

9 minutes ago, MJI said:

 

The GWR and BR look similar. The Airfix kit is not bad at all.

 

I wonder.....

 

The BR version was based on the last diagram of GWR cattle wagon W12. With a bit of work you can change it to a few other diagrams.

 

Mex W12  Dapol-ex-Airfix kit.   (*)W8, W8, W10, W11, W12, Y10, V30

 

http://www.gwr.org.uk/kits4wagons.html

 

 

Jason

[Compound2632]

44 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

Sorry, not really pertinent to your question but I knew it so I though't I'd bore you with it.

 

@Western Star, that's my first "groan"; I feel honoured that it should be from you!

[brossard]

Agree about the Bachmann LMS Cattle wagon, it is built on a standard 10' WB underframe with the body distorted to suit.  IIRC, the WB should be 11' 6".  Slater's have the MR wagon which lasted well into nationalisation:

 

https://slatersplastikard.com/linePage.php?code=4031

 

I managed to eke out some kits from Coopercraft ages ago:

 

 

John

Edited September 16, 2020 by brossard

[57xx]

You also got the Bachmann "GWR" cattle wagon to add to the RTR offerings:

 

https://www.Bachmann.co.uk/product/8t-cattle-wagon-gwr-grey/37-711d

 

I believe it is more BR than GWR and possibily that it has got wonky dimensions too. Others who have look at it in more detail can confirm/deny.

 

Also, I reluctantly mention the Oxford Rail offering of the LNER cattle wagon:

https://www.oxforddiecast.co.uk/products/cattle-wagon-lner-196488-or76cat003

See the thread in the OR section on RMWeb for all it's failings. I'd ignore the vast majority of online reviews as they all appear to be fawning over the price and OR rather than accuracy, with the reviewers having no prototype knowledge at all.

Edited September 16, 2020 by 57xx

[Wheatley]

If that's the same moulding as their BR one ( https://www.Bachmann.co.uk/product/category/155/8t-cattle-wagon-br-bauxite-(late)/37-712d ) then it is a scale foot too long, but everything else about it is very nicely done.

 

The BR vans were to two different diagrams; the difference is in the height, one is (I think) 3" higher than the other with a more pronounced arc to the roof.

[TheQ]

And no lime wash.. That was banned in 1927..

[brossard]

1 hour ago, 57xx said:

You also got the Bachmann "GWR" cattle wagon to add to the RTR offerings:

 

https://www.Bachmann.co.uk/product/8t-cattle-wagon-gwr-grey/37-711d

 

I believe it is more BR than GWR and possibily that it has got wonky dimensions too. Others who have look at it in more detail can confirm/deny.

 

Also, I reluctantly mention the Oxford Rail offering of the LNER cattle wagon:

https://www.oxforddiecast.co.uk/products/cattle-wagon-lner-196488-or76cat003

See the thread in the OR section on RMWeb for all it's failings. I'd ignore the vast majority of online reviews as they all appear to be fawning over the price and OR rather than accuracy, with the reviewers having no prototype knowledge at all.

 

If you want to be pretty sure about accuracy, kits are the way to go I think.  Manufacturers are not be trusted.

 

Parkside do the short WB LNER cattle wagon:

 

 

https://anticsonline.uk/Product/Parkside-Kits-PC50-LNER-Standard-Cattle-Truck-OO_N105499855

 

They also have the LMS Cattle wagon in their range:

 

https://anticsonline.uk/Product/Parkside-Kits-PC87-LMS-Design-Cattle-Truck-Wagon-Kit-OO_N2077428

 

John

[MJI]

I think I will get some more Airfix and a couple of Parkside.

 

 

[MJI]

Thanks all

 

Lots to go on and yes I will be using kits.

[The Johnster]

No lime wash post 1927 as The Q says, banned because it caused pain and swelling to the beasts' feet, but bits of straw sticking out of the bottom slats are acceptable.  Mine are wood splinters from cocktail sticks.  The size division barriers were employed to help keep the animals upright; they are not good at compensating for movement and fall over easily, and being rather bulky things there is a risk of them being injured if they do this.

[57xx]

One more kit, if you can find it second hand or NOS, is the Coopercraft GWR W1/W5.

[Compound2632]

1 minute ago, 57xx said:

One more kit, if you can find it second hand or NOS, is the Coopercraft GWR W1/W5.

 

I'm not expert but I gather that's neither one thing nor the other. Furthermore, being of 19th century (W1) or pre-WWI (W5) build date, where any running c. 1960? Here's a 1947 photo of a W5 in late GW livery looking rather tired. I found a thread on another forum in which survival beyond the early 50s was deemed unlikely. 

[57xx]

34 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

I'm not expert but I gather that's neither one thing nor the other. Furthermore, being of 19th century (W1) or pre-WWI (W5) build date, where any running c. 1960? Here's a 1947 photo of a W5 in late GW livery looking rather tired. I found a thread on another forum in which survival beyond the early 50s was deemed unlikely. 

 True, along with most being converted to fruit or ale vans due to the lack of cattle traffic way before that time, but irrelevant anyhow as I missed the OP already mentioned it.

The only "problem" with the kit I'm aware of is the roof profile being slightly wrong.

[Wickham Green too]

10 minutes ago, 57xx said:

 ...... The only "problem" with the kit I'm aware of is the roof profile being slightly wrong.

... and its availability - or not, as the case may be.

 

David Geen did some nice cattle wagon kits - but, again, we're talking about second hand for those.

[57xx]

1 hour ago, Wickham Green too said:

.. and its availability - or not, as the case may be.

 

Hence why I said "if you can find it second hand or NOS".

[MJI]

3 hours ago, 57xx said:

One more kit, if you can find it second hand or NOS, is the Coopercraft GWR W1/W5.

 

 

Too old, mainly BR and 1 or 2 BR redone as late GWR will do for the veg.

 

They were used for transporting veg in the 50s and 60s.

[Wickham Green too]

Yep - you'll need broccoli & potatoes to go with your roast beef .......

[57xx]

2 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

Yep - you'll need broccoli & potatoes to go with your roast beef .......

 

And ale....

[Wickham Green too]

indeed.

 

The Fruit Van conversions that obviously follow have already been mentioned but we might have to start a new thread for the LMS Cream Van that accompanies them ??!? ...... with, perhaps a GWR 'Tevan' bringing up the rear.