Cavalex Models All new RTR HAA and variants in 4mm scale

[stovepipe]

Slightly at cross-purposes perhaps - I've been trying to tie down the Scottish blue dates, which is the version being produced for KMS Railtech. Then someone mentioned Mainline blue, which is another variation to my mind, not the same blue.

 

And by post-privatisation I mean by the date of the photo - 1999 - with what looks to be a pretty freshly painted set.

[stovepipe]

3 minutes ago, stovepipe said:

And by post-privatisation I mean by the date of the photo - 1999 - with what looks to be a pretty freshly painted set.

 

But perhaps the photo date is wrong - this is from Oct 1996.

 

https://flic.kr/p/boxq4b

[SWT442]

Ah, fair enough.

 

And, yes, I'd definitely agree with the photo date being wrong. To me, the wagons and loco are far too clean for 1999 and, as I said, wrong OHLE stickers on the loco for the year mentioned. I'd have dated the picture 96/97.

 

Andy.

[P.C.M]

Hi Cav & Alex, Congrats on your latest wagon. I am sure it will be a good seller, your others have gone down well too the pics of your steel wagon look spot on you must be very pleased with how they have come out.

 

All the best Peter.

[7013]

Would be nice if they had designed a PAA variant as well

 

[Trains4U]

The PAA is no relation to the HAA asfar as I’m aware

 

I would argue it is closer to the PGA (assuming we are talking about the BIS/WBB sand hopper?)

[hmrspaul]

34 minutes ago, 7013 said:

Would be nice if they had designed a PAA variant as well

 

Which one? I have 8 https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/?q=paa and I'm not claiming this is complete! TOPS codes are not wagon descriptors or names. The 5th edition of TOPS booklet describes PAA as Privately owned covered bulk, 2 axle (Covhop, Grain, Lime)

 

Paul

[ruggedpeak]

On 21/09/2020 at 01:33, Down_Under said:

While they will fit right in a block trains behind a Class 47, 56, 58, 60 or a Class 08 on a cripple movement, l

Or behind double headed 33's on the WR with an 08 attached to the back......

 

Great news about the wagons, my Hornby ones keep blowing over on the garden layout due to the windy summer we've had. Something with a metal chassis is ideal.

[BR Blue]

This probably needs a separate topic. The differences in the ends from the HAAs can clearly be seen in the renders. Another great wagon.

[Dan Griffin]

It’s pleasing to see a strong positive response to the HAA wagons. And looking at their previous releases these wagons will be good.

 

They had other uses I don’t think have been mentioned.  HAA wagons were used on the Foxton cement works coal train. This ran infrequently but when I was a signaller at Helpston it would run down (or up!) the ECML then off towards Ely at Peterborough. sometimes with 25 loaded hoppers, sometimes just 4! Traction varied from 47/56/58 to 60/66’s in the latter years (2005/6). I think it depended on the demand at cement works. 

 

dare we (I) hope that you tackle the other end of the MGR cycle and maybe tool up a CSA fly ash wagon to complement these hoppers. Seen together at Ratcliffe and West Burton Power Stations. 
 

The CSA was seen through the midlands and the lower part of the ECML and these wagons would prove very local to Trains4u as they operated to Fletton disposal point and Little Barford Power station at St Neots from 1969 to 1993. And there is a surviving example at Railworld. 

just a thought, not ‘wish listing’. 
 

keep up the good work with your wagon projects. it’s refreshing to see these hot the market at an affordable price. 

Edited September 29, 2020 by Dan Griffin

[Mike Harvey]

As far as I remember HAAs were used for coal to Northfleet cement works, alongside some other slim HAAs bringing gypsum from Mountfield. Couple of useful Southern flows.

 

https://www.kentrail.org.uk/northfleet_cement_works.htm

Edited September 29, 2020 by Mike Harvey
Added link

[D9502]

There was a really useful article in Rail Express Modeller covering coal traffic, co-authored by Simon Bendall and Gareth Bayer, RE Nov 2015 #234 covered pre-privatisation era with HAA history and RE March 2016 #238 covered the privatisation era, the demise of the HAA and its variants, what's useful in this issue is the example train formations with HAA mixed with HBA, HCA, HDA, HMA and HNA.

 

I summarised from the articles..

HAA rated for 45 mph, upgraded to 60 mph recoded HDA nos. 368000-368459 with air brake distributor above floor.

 

1991

HAA conversion for Scotland with added canopy recoded to HCA (142 wagons)

HDA conversion with added canopy recoded to HBA for Anglo-Scottish flows (454 wagons) passed for 60mph

 

1992/1993

HAA conversion with added aerodynamic canopy recoded to HFA for import coal flows (Liverpool, Avonmouth), passed for 60mph

 

1996

HAA upgrade to brakes recoded to HMA

Likewise HCA and HFA upgrades were recoded HNA

 

2007

Scottish Caledonian blue livery repaints, some with AYR or Millerhill lettering

 

 

This is not authoritative, only from my own notes when repainting and renumbering Hornby wagons, as it allowed a rake of canopy fitting wagons and a rake of non-canopy. There's faded railfreight red, faded subsector yellow, EWS maroon, Mainline blue, Loadhaul orange, and Caledonian blue that can been seen in the twilight years of MGR flows, so a lot of potential with this exciting release.

 

Here's a photo of a large collection of Hornby models taken back in 2006 when brought along my HAA's to Andi Dell's embryonic Ravensclyffe layout, i think there was over 300 HAA's there, I lost count....

 

 

 

 

[mevaman1]

The blue cradled wagons travelled widely.  This is Newport in December 2007

[hmrspaul]

When they were new the NCB wouldn't (couldn't) load them. They were used a barrier wagons, in pairs, for Class A tank wagon trains. (photos I tried to get of these are useless!) 

Others were used for pulverised fly ash and were written PFA https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brhaapre80/e10eff5bf

 

Paul

 

[Dagworth]

20 hours ago, D9502 said:

Here's a photo of a large collection of Hornby models taken back in 2006 when brought along my HAA's to Andi Dell's embryonic Ravensclyffe layout, i think there was over 300 HAA's there, I lost count....

 

 

 

 

Wow, that's an old photo, it doesn't look like that anymore!

 

Andi

[daz9284]

On 21/09/2020 at 16:10, RBE said:

Hi Darryl.

 

Thanks for your interest.

 

£30 is competitively priced for rolling stock of this level of detail in the current market.

 

The accurascale PTA model maybe 'larger' however size is not the overiding factor when considering costs for the manufacture of rolling stock. The level of detail afforded means that a great deal of the cost is taken up with having to make, prepare and assemble the many many parts that make up a wagon of this quality. This is directly proportional to the time and care it takes to fit parts under factory conditions that in all fairness we at home would sometimes have trouble fitting on our workbenches.

 

Gone are the days where facories were snapping together 5 or 6 parts in 30 seconds to make a ready to run wagon.

 

Regards

Cav

Dam you guys.

 

Umm'd and arr'd and I'm going to take the plung for half a rake (18)

 

regards

darryl

[D9502]

>>The blue cradled wagons travelled widely.  This is Newport in December 2007

 

I seem to remember reading when one of the Scottish power stations closed some of the Scottish MGR sets migrated south.

 

>>Tempted to order them, but at £30 a wagon they do seem a little expensive, especially when you can get a larger bogie wagon for the same price (i.e. accurascale PTA).

When looking at the early bird pricing from Revolution, and early pre-order prices from Cavalex these are competitively costed based the level of individual parts and high standard of finish, something we could only have dreamt of a few years ago. Just remember production costs are rising all the time in China...

 

>>For me though (and many others no doubt), modelling the 70's means I'll be holding out for the the early variants with the internal cross >>braces.

I don't know when the HAA cross bracing was abolished or removed but I never saw them. I grew up with Silverdale colliery literally at the bottom of my street and watched in the very late seventies and eighties the trains being loaded and can't recall ever seeing the cross bracing.

The wagons took a bit of a beating from the flood loader! I doubt the bracing would have remained in situ or useful for long.

 

I don't know if it was the same at other midland collieries but at Silverdale the train would reverse under the bunker (loader) and the wagons get half-filled then the loco's (two class twenties) would draw forward and the wagons get completely filled.

 

Standing in the doorway of the control room at the base of the bunker and and watching the operator loading the train, with dexterity on the levers he would use the silo doors to create a smooth flat load as the wagons then travelled on the WCML to Ironbridge, Rugeley etc. This would prevent dust as I never saw canopy fitted wagons here.

As a kid I was fascinated.. 

 

 

[rubber duck]

Can I ask the Cavalex guys, will these be definitely be going ahead given recent developments, I've pre ordered a rake of yours but don't want to miss out.....

Regards Peter...

[RBE]

Hi Peter, the recent events bare no relevance to our project. We are pleased to announce that our HAA/CDA project remains unchanged. We are extremely proud of what we have designed for our HAA and the subsequent variants and we can assure you, our customers, that the usual stops have been pulled out to make our model the finest and most detailed HAA/CDA available. The model is currently well progressed in tooling and continues our ethos of producing the absolute best quality scale models possible.

 

 

 

Regards

Cav

[richscylla]

28 minutes ago, RBE said:

Hi Peter, the recent events bare no relevance to our project. We are pleased to announce that our HAA/CDA project remains unchanged. We are extremely proud of what we have designed for our HAA and the subsequent variants and we can assure you, our customers, that the usual stops have been pulled out to make our model the finest and most detailed HAA/CDA available. The model is currently well progressed in tooling and continues our ethos of producing the absolute best quality scale models possible.

 

 

 

Regards

Cav

These look absolutely stunning Cav! Can't wait until a rake of these are running on my layout! Might not be able to run fully prototypical lengths.... but maybe two half length might work! 

[Trains4U]

I'd just like to add...   To clear any potential confusion.

Speaking purely on behalf of Trains4U, all of the orders placed with us are accepted as genuine pre-orders.  We have committed a lot of time, money and energy to this project over several months, and we are excited to see it come to fruition.

Without wishing to put other financing models under scrutiny, recent history cannot be ignored.    Having seen first hand the impact of deposit losses on customers, and the mistrust it can bring, I am morally opposed to taking deposits from customers on pre-orders.  That may be less secure for me as a financier of this project (And Trains4U has made a significant capital investment in this project) but it is the business decision I have elected to take, and I hope in the long-run it was the right one to make.

This is the same approach I have taken with the forthcoming KFA Warflat, and that is in production as I type, with no deposits taken.

I trust that the majority of my customers will honour their commitments, just as they trust in me as the retailer to provide the end product.

Anyone who has seen the Cavalex PGA hopper, BBA steel wagon or the prototypes of the KFA warflat and TEA tanker will know what to expect of the HAA. It will be an excellent model.
 
 

[Trains4U]

I couldn’t quite fit it in the van

 

 

 

I thought about pushing it home, but I'd have scratched the bonnet, and those damage excesses are extortionate!

Edited October 13, 2020 by Trains4U

[rubber duck]

1 hour ago, Trains4U said:

I'd just like to add...   To clear any potential confusion.

Speaking purely on behalf of Trains4U, all of the orders placed with us are accepted as genuine pre-orders.  We have committed a lot of time, money and energy to this project over several months, and we are excited to see it come to fruition.

Without wishing to put other financing models under scrutiny, recent history cannot be ignored.    Having seen first hand the impact of deposit losses on customers, and the mistrust it can bring, I am morally opposed to taking deposits from customers on pre-orders.  That may be less secure for me as a financier of this project (And Trains4U has made a significant capital investment in this project) but it is the business decision I have elected to take, and I hope in the long-run it was the right one to make.

This is the same approach I have taken with the forthcoming KFA Warflat, and that is in production as I type, with no deposits taken.

I trust that the majority of my customers will honour their commitments, just as they trust in me as the retailer to provide the end product.

Anyone who has seen the Cavalex PGA hopper, BBA steel wagon or the prototypes of the KFA warflat and TEA tanker will know what to expect of the HAA. It will be an excellent model.
 
Thanks for the reassurance Guys,  That,s all i wanted to know,  My pre orders will stand,  looking forward to yet another benchmark model....

Regards Peter...

 

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

I've got a cat, and there seem to be a few pigeons round here, so, what is so manifestly wrong with the re-tooled Hornby HAA that makes these new  models so much of an improvement?

I'm only asking, I don't want a Halibut moment, but I'm interested in peoples (other than the usual suspects) views and opinions.

 

Mike.

[Crisis Rail]

6 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

I've got a cat, and there seem to be a few pigeons round here, so, what is so manifestly wrong with the re-tooled Hornby HAA that makes these new  models so much of an improvement?

I'm only asking, I don't want a Halibut moment, but I'm interested in peoples (other than the usual suspects) views and opinions.

 

Mike.

 

Technology.

 

And knowing the persons behind the projects with their expectations and aspirations.