X03/X04 alternate wiring without suppressor

[ajm]

My first post on this site.

I have been discussing this issue on a US Hornby site and thought I might ask the same question here.

 

Train is Triang Queen Elizabeth, has x04 motor, which runs fine but not when on the track.

Have cleaned everything and checked continuity and it seems the wiring needs to be re-done.

 

I have read that the capacitor/suppressor is not required and there is a replacement scheme suggested, but it is a little unclear to me.

 

Is this correct.

 

1. run a live wire from pickup plate to the positive brush

2. remove the capacitor and retain the eyelet and connect wire to it, fix eyelet to the screw used when capacitor attached.

3. fix the wire in (2) to the live wire

 

The key change here is the removal of the capacitor.  Trust it is clear.

 

Comments appreciate. 

 

 

 

 

 

[andyman7]

The capacitor is not needed to make the engine run; it is there to reduce sparking. There is no specific positive or negative side to the motor; the distinction is between the insulated side brush (held by the sleeved spring wire) and the uninsulated side brush which is effectively linked to the chassis which is 'live' to the opposite polarity.

 

You run the wire from the pick up plate to the insulated brush. This wire must be protected from any bare metal contact with the chassis or motor. You do not need to do anything for the opposite side brush - the metal  brush spring is screwed to the motor and the motor is screwed to the chassis which creates the return current path.

 

When fitted, the capacitor sits across the positive/negative path - if not used you don't want any plain wiring in its place or you will just dreate a short circuit. 

Edited September 18, 2020 by andyman7

[kevinlms]

13 hours ago, ajm said:

My first post on this site.

I have been discussing this issue on a US Hornby site and thought I might ask the same question here.

 

Train is Triang Queen Elizabeth, has x04 motor, which runs fine but not when on the track.

Have cleaned everything and checked continuity and it seems the wiring needs to be re-done.

 

I have read that the capacitor/suppressor is not required and there is a replacement scheme suggested, but it is a little unclear to me.

 

Is this correct.

 

1. run a live wire from pickup plate to the positive brush

2. remove the capacitor and retain the eyelet and connect wire to it, fix eyelet to the screw used when capacitor attached.

3. fix the wire in (2) to the live wire

 

The key change here is the removal of the capacitor.  Trust it is clear.

 

Comments appreciate. 

 

 

 

 

 

You need to be a little clearer here

Train is Triang Queen Elizabeth, has x04 motor, which runs fine but not when on the track.

 

How have you tested this? Have you turned the loco upside and applied 2 wires directly to the wheels and it works?

 

It sounds like you have a broken or loose wire somewhere, pick up strip?

 

One things for sure, removing the spark suppression capacitor, won't miraculously make it work.

 

[Suzie]

The suppression components have no effect on your problem so don't remove them (unless converting to DCC).

 

You need to check that there is nothing to short the wheels to the chassis block on the side with the pickups, and that the pickups are making good contact with the wheels, and that the wheels are clean.

[ajm]

Thanks, yes I understand the suppressor role I just wanted to simplify the wiring.

 

 Motor was tested taken off the body with a 9V battery, works OK no stuttering or stalling

 

Wheels are cleaned.

Pickups cleaned.

 

Does seem to be the wheels, removed the pickup and motor and still get shorting.

 

Nothing obvious is touching the wheels from the chassis block

Wheels lose?

Wheel(s) wrong side - would that cause a shorting? or the little inserts between wheel and axil?

 

Love these problems and thanks in advance for any further ideas and tips. Andrew Meyenn

[Suzie]

One wheel is insulated from the axle (pickup side) and the other is not! You must get them the right way.

[DCB]

The centre wheels are insulated with a plastic centre bush as are the two with the pick up contacts.   The pick up plate almost certainly fits both ways round but shorts on the chassis when the wrong way round.  The driving wheels should never be removed except when chucking them away to fit something decent.   The plastic bushes fall apart, the inner flange breaks off and the wheels then short out, and the non insulated ones just work loose if removed.  Getting the quartering right is also a nightmare.   I always use a suppressor, a ceramic capacitor on X 04s on DC. Sounds like you have a dead short or maybe no contact between insulated brush and pick ups.