andyman7 Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 (edited) I'm always on the lookout for models that tell the story of Triang's journey to Hornby Hobbies. One that I think does this particularly well is the R357 A1A (Class 30/31) Diesel Electric. It was made from 1962 to 1976 so spans almost exactly the period from Triang becoming a head on challenger to Hornby Dublo (rather than the low budget inferior alternative) to the birth of the modern Hornby Railways range. An important part of this story are the last production versions which retained all the classic features of Triang locos (worm driven motor bogie, magnadhesion etc) but are finished and presented alongside the next generation of models that bridge the gap until the China-made era. Certainly, when introduced, it went immediately to the top of the class as a scale version of the model it purported to represent, as good as the Dublo EE Type 1 (Class 20) and markedly better than the horror that was the Dublo Deltic. It also represented a sizeable mixed traffic class of loco. Whilst of not great value, it is hard these days to find original unmolested examples in good boxes with the correct header card and paperwork. I've managed to source two good late examples, one from the 1975, and one from 1976, the last year of production. The 1975 one is noted for coming in a new box size, smaller and squarer in section than that used previously. This marked a standardised size that would endure for 20 years through numerous graphical changes. By this stage, the loco is presented in the green livery (as D5572, the only number used on green and BR blue versions in the entire production run) that had periodically graced the model since 1963. Since 1973 though this has been gloss laquered to give an incredibly bright shiny finish. This was a policy of Hornby Railways' new owners post-Triang that meant the sober colours of the Triang era (brown buildings, satin-finished locos etc) had given way to garish red brick, shiny locos and bright finishes that would appeal in toy shops. However, technically the post 1973 models benefit from additional trailing wheel pickups, indeed they picked up from more wheels than the following Mk2 Ringfield powered locos that replaced it. The 1976 model is almost identical but has plastic buffers fitted of the type that would become standard for the next 30-odd years, and a different headcode label. The '4C01' and '9D80' headcode labels were used interchangeably throughout the long production run of this model. The 1976 box is the same size but is now in the red Hornby Railways design that defines the 'real' beginning of the post Triang era and would be used subsequently for the standard Ringfield Mk2 powered locos. All the diesel models from 1977 onwards would need to use this Ringfield mechanism or be culled from the range. The more modern ex-Triang locos (Hymek; Class 37) got new chassis and mechanisms, but the R357 A1A, along with the R157 Diesel Railcar and R253 Dock Shunter were deleted - presumably the tooling was worn enough not to justify the changes needed, whilst the A1A, with it's motor hung from the internal body top rather than the chassis was completely at odds with the chassis mounted Ringfield mechanism. The model was replaced the following year by the Class 25. That year, gloss varnish also gave way to matt finish as Airfix and Palitoy/Mainline began to challenge Hornby's market dominance with much more realistic looking models (just as upstart Triang had moved in on Hornby Dublo's territory). Edited September 18, 2020 by andyman7 Spelling 14 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 Good write-up. You sell it so well that I wanted one until I remembered it’s 00 2-rail and my layout is 0 3-rail. 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigherb Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 (edited) I think it was more the tooling was getting worn out, particularly the roof tool, certainly the last models had lost the crispness of the originals. Edited September 18, 2020 by bigherb 6 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted September 18, 2020 Author Share Posted September 18, 2020 Indeed, it is easy to forget just how large production runs were up until the end of the 1970s, so in 14 years the A1A body tools could be expected to have run well over 100,000 shots whereas modern RTR runs are generally in the low thousands if that. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 Apart from the gloss finish (and a more emerald green) one way of telling the '70s green models from the '60s green ones is the missing step (leading up to the recess in the roof) behind the cab door on one side. This was filled in when they made the blue version so the number could be put in the correct place for early BR blue livery. 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 There was also an Australian version for a short time, plus a couple of early blue variations (not BR blue: first issue in 1962 with eggshell cab window surrounds, and later ones with white roof and stripes). These were numbered as D5578. A few crossver models came out with green ones numbered D5578 and blue ones as D5572. The Australian one was done as a New South Wales Government Railways class 422 (running number 42202) - something it only resembled if one closed ones eyes and looked at it from behind a hill in a completely different Australian state. Catalogue number was R307, which duplicates other Triang items - a catenary set and a class 47, 47 170 'County of Norfolk'. While mould crispness did seem to suffer a little over the years, earlier examples tend to suffer from knocks and scrapes, particularly the door handrail mouldings, and wear of the number and crest transfers from handling. I think it was always a good looking model, certainly one of the best of its time of origin, and still not too bad even today. Andyman's examples look very nice indeed. I had a BR blue D5572 back in the late 1960s, and for partly nostalgic reasons, I now own two slightly careworn early blue examples. Because they weren't in the best of condition, I got them for very reasonable prices. Am I detracting from Andy's topic if I post pics of mine here, seeing as these are at the opposite end of the scale from 'Last Production' examples? I have posted them before in other topics, and I'll delete them if they aren't wanted. Triang Blue Brush Type 2 - 2 by Jeffrey Lynn, on Flickr Triang Blue Brush Type 2 - 4 by Jeffrey Lynn, on Flickr 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandwich station Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 (edited) There was also an Electric blue version before the BR rail blue one. Edited September 19, 2020 by sandwich station 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted September 19, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 19, 2020 1 hour ago, SRman said: There was also an Australian version for a short time, plus a couple of early blue variations (not BR blue: first issue in 1962 with eggshell cab window surrounds, and later ones with white roof and stripes). These were numbered as D5578. A few crossver models came out with green ones numbered D5578 and blue ones as D5572. The Australian one was done as a New South Wales Government Railways class 422 (running number 42202) - something it only resembled if one closed ones eyes and looked at it from behind a hill in a completely different Australian state. Catalogue number was R307, which duplicates other Triang items - a catenary set and a class 47, 47 170 'County of Norfolk'. While mould crispness did seem to suffer a little over the years, earlier examples tend to suffer from knocks and scrapes, particularly the door handrail mouldings, and wear of the number and crest transfers from handling. I think it was always a good looking model, certainly one of the best of its time of origin, and still not too bad even today. Andyman's examples look very nice indeed. I had a BR blue D5572 back in the late 1960s, and for partly nostalgic reasons, I now own two slightly careworn early blue examples. Because they weren't in the best of condition, I got them for very reasonable prices. Am I detracting from Andy's topic if I post pics of mine here, seeing as these are at the opposite end of the scale from 'Last Production' examples? I have posted them before in other topics, and I'll delete them if they aren't wanted. Triang Blue Brush Type 2 - 2 by Jeffrey Lynn, on Flickr Triang Blue Brush Type 2 - 4 by Jeffrey Lynn, on Flickr Love the accurate description of the 422 class! 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 6 hours ago, BernardTPM said: Apart from the gloss finish (and a more emerald green) one way of telling the '70s green models from the '60s green ones is the missing step (leading up to the recess in the roof) behind the cab door on one side. This was filled in when they made the blue version so the number could be put in the correct place for early BR blue livery. One other indicator is the blue-green bands, rather than white or off-white of the earlier models. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverfox17 Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 (edited) This model was developed from the TT one Tri-ang made around 1959/60 was was their best TT loco at the time without being compromised for an oversized motor. The motor bogie was a new design which was copied for the 00 version a couple of years later and a very nice and reliable bogie it was, and still is, as I use it in all my Co-Co based diesels. Even today the TT one is noted as being ahead of its time in detail. The only major difference I know of is the TT model did not have the headcode box and for the first couple of years had wire hand rails. The TT one had the magnadhesion magnets in before it was stated and brought out in 00. The TT one did use the same bogie casting for the trailing bogie whereas in 00 a plastic moulding was used. Here is a new unused one I got in a set about 2 months ago. Garry Edited September 19, 2020 by Silverfox17 Updated description. 12 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 2 hours ago, Silverfox17 said: This model was developed from the TT one Tri-ang made around 1959/60 which was their best TT loco at the time without being compromised for an oversized motor. The motor bogie was a new design which was copied for the 00 version a couple of years later and a very nice and reliable bogie it was, and still is, as I use it in all my Co-Co based diesels. Even today the TT one is noted as being ahead of its time in detail... I was very surprised by what Triang's TT offered, when I had a large s/h collection to dispose of some years ago. Everything about it superior to their contemporary OO product, Triang really gave it every chance of success. (The lack of the headcode box implies that it was modelled on the pilot scheme build of the first 20 Brush type 2.) 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted September 19, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 19, 2020 My first loco in a 1965 Freightmaster set . I still have it although it’s now in freight grey with red stripe . I bought another green one to recreate original set though . Good models but they were of their time 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 The TT version quite cleverly had flush glazing on the front windows, I believe. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 13 hours ago, Nearholmer said: Good write-up. You sell it so well that I wanted one until I remembered it’s 00 2-rail and my layout is 0 3-rail. I always thought these were attractive (for a diesel), but were rather elusive where I lived at the time (Birmingham area). They are quite easy to convert. Add a pick up under the non-powered bogie, bin the tension locks and fit Peco or HD couplings in their place. The Class 37 can be done the same way. Something really needs to be done about the excess height. A bit of plastic carving solves that. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roythebus Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 I remember the adverts in the model press when they were released boasting about the microscopic detail of the lettering being readable on the makers' plate on the body. Truly remarkable for that era, the model was ahead of its time in a lot of respects. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverfox17 Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 49 minutes ago, BernardTPM said: The TT version quite cleverly had flush glazing on the front windows, I believe. Yes Bernard, it was a one piece moulding taking in 3 sides with clear protrusions for the windows to give the flush look. Garry 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverfox17 Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 50 minutes ago, Il Grifone said: I always thought these were attractive (for a diesel), but were rather elusive where I lived at the time (Birmingham area). They are quite easy to convert. Add a pick up under the non-powered bogie, bin the tension locks and fit Peco or HD couplings in their place. The Class 37 can be done the same way. Something really needs to be done about the excess height. A bit of plastic carving solves that. Mmmm David, in the conversion you forgot to mention something to make it grow as the Tri-ang one is 00 (and TT) but Nearholmer said he has 0 gauge lol. Garry 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 Oddly enough, although I like the Triang model, which was very good for its time, as a ‘period piece’, I never liked the real locos. To me they always seemed incredibly ponderous on passenger trains, lacking any energy, and when I first went in the cab of one I was amazed by how crude it all was. I was used to Cromptons, and a lesser extent Hymeks, which seemed far livelier and certainly far better designed internally. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted September 19, 2020 Author Share Posted September 19, 2020 It's good to see other examples being posted. I created the original post as I had the two late versions in front of me - like many, I end up squirrelling things away on shelves etc so that they are not always 'to hand', but I do have the early versions. I had the NSWR Australian version too but sold or swapped that many years back. I've owned a few things two or three times in succession, normally I have clear out and than later on a really nice example of the same thing turns up and I can't help myself - especially with Triang which is often cheap given its age and fragility. It's tucked away somewhere but I have a beautiful 1963 green example, with the matt finish, whiter bands, unfilled step moulding etc. As a 'model' it's probably the best looking of the bunch. Someday I need to get organised so the early and late ones sit side by side. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Silverfox17 said: Mmmm David, in the conversion you forgot to mention something to make it grow as the Tri-ang one is 00 (and TT) but Nearholmer said he has 0 gauge lol. Garry I missed the 0! Blame in on poor eyesight, old age or wine at 1€ a litre.... 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Nearholmer said: Oddly enough, although I like the Triang model, which was very good for its time, as a ‘period piece’, I never liked the real locos. To me they always seemed incredibly ponderous on passenger trains, lacking any energy, and when I first went in the cab of one I was amazed by how crude it all was. I was used to Cromptons, and a lesser extent Hymeks, which seemed far livelier and certainly far better designed internally. Opposite for me. Loved the real locomotives* but thought the model to be a bit rubbish looking at it with 1970s eyes. Although I do understand the nostalgia aspect. *After re-engining and then refurbishment in the 1980s they became fantastic locomotives. Easily doing duties that was previously Type 4 such as the Liverpool to Sheffield trains. Unfortunately that meant the end for the Peaks. But they were worth hunting down. If you had a Merseyside Saveaway ticket you could travel on them to whatever station was still in the "zone" Huyton or Hunts Cross. So you ended up getting something like 20 minutes travel behind one, then try to get another one going back to Lime Street. Used to do that all day. Jason 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffnut Thorston Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 (edited) Some service sheets shewing the evolution of the R.357 Brush Type 2...and the TT Gauge loco...T.96... Edited September 19, 2020 by Sarahagain Added TT sheet... 7 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatB Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 15 hours ago, Il Grifone said: I always thought these were attractive (for a diesel), but were rather elusive where I lived at the time (Birmingham area). They are quite easy to convert. Add a pick up under the non-powered bogie, bin the tension locks and fit Peco or HD couplings in their place. The Class 37 can be done the same way. Something really needs to be done about the excess height. A bit of plastic carving solves that. Might have to pull the wheels out on the axles a bit too . 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandora Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 (edited) The low speed running was poor and jerky, too much endfloat on the armature due to excessive clearance between the nylon armature shaft bearings and the wormgears on the armature shaft. My fix was to place the armature assembly in a Vice and move the worm further along the shaft until the worm to bearing clearance was zero, after this simple change the loco would stop and start without snatching or jerking. Edited September 20, 2020 by Pandora 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted September 20, 2020 Share Posted September 20, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, PatB said: Might have to pull the wheels out on the axles a bit too . It would depend on the track. I've always found Tri-ang will run on HD 3 rail track without problems beyond a bit of a bump on pointwork and Trix fibre, the other contender, is universal anyway (later production - the earlier stuff is Trix wheels only. Control and, if necessary, adjustment of the check gauge (15mm* for HD track) is advisable for all rolling stock. (says he who doesn't always do it...). * Coincidently the same as BRMSB. I've not had the jerky running problem, but the nylon armature bearings are not one of the models best features. Excessive end float is endemic to Tri-ang motors. The worm should slide and mesh correctly with the gear at all settings, but sometimes the extreme end causes problems (it shouldn't really get that far) due to damage or faulty manufacture. A file will cure it. EDIT If anyone wants one: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TRI-ANG-R357-CL-31-body-shell-spares-repair-CIRCA-60S-80S-REF-381-to/303660321843?_trkparms=aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D225076%26meid%3Da61453c8c1494328bcf3eb22cd7963e2%26pid%3D100277%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D224148164145%26itm%3D303660321843%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2060778%26algv%3DSimplAMLv5PairwiseWeb%26brand%3DTri-ang&_trksid=p2060778.c100277.m3477 You would need to source a motor bogie and I'm not sure which version it is. There's a bit of damage but, as the seller says, it should be easily repairable. (Usual disclaimer!) The seller has one (presumably from this body), but at £22.50 it seems a bit pricey to me. Edited September 20, 2020 by Il Grifone Added item on eBay 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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